Why?
Club Sale | It’s done!
- Thread starter JB08
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If criticising a country whose wealth is mostly made up of exploiting other countries and who keeps messing up causing thousands of deaths (ex war in Iraq) without being bothered to take those responsible to court while concurrently expecting others to pick the tab regarding asylum seekers makes me anti British then by all means I am. I doubt it though. I lived in the UK, I paid taxes there and unlike some patriots who claim to love the country while avoiding tax I still do.
I brought my arguments forward as of why I don't want SJR owning the club. You might disagree with them but there are listed and they make sense.
We are in the minority (at least among online fans), but I've believed we were in the right 100% throughout this process so I'll be very happy (and probably insufferable) if Qatar loses out.
Why all of a sudden majority are convinced that Ratcliffe has won it?
How exactly?
You're comparing an individual or a few individuals to a billion pound corporate entity.
It isn't inconvenience at all but it'll be the same way the Glazers would do it. Through financing and borrowing. What is inconceivable is being added on as a second account holder on Ineos's credit card with the monthly repayment bills dropping on their door mat rather than ours.
The only difference between how we are run now under the Glazers is that the current owners actually have a better track record in sports team ownership
Right now, my main gripe is actually the process, whatever the outcome is. Can this be settled soon please, one way or another? Before we hit the transfer window?
I'm sure someone must have mentioned this already somewhere in this 1482-page thread, but this is beginning to feel like Waystar after Ken and Rome has taken over, with Connor and Shiv sniping from the sidelines.
I'm sure someone must have mentioned this already somewhere in this 1482-page thread, but this is beginning to feel like Waystar after Ken and Rome has taken over, with Connor and Shiv sniping from the sidelines.
Because they are ridiculously rich and a couple billion is like spending a couple hundred to you or I. This is probably their one chance to own arguably the most followed, biggest club in the world. A sportwashers wet dream. The chance to compete and overtake other gulf states in the prem. You really think they are going to back down and give up all of that for a, relatively speaking, few quid?
The Glazers's business is pretty much like SJR's business. Sure its a business but its owned by a handful of people which makes the distinction between the people and their business very small
The elephant in the room is the lack of an answer to the question of why Ineos would significantly increase their own debt burden by borrowing money to buy an asset yet not expect the money generated by the asset to contribute towards the costs of purchasing it.
My personal view on the last few weeks and why I think Ineos are still ahead:
-Jassim's 4th bid, apparently his last one (take it or leave it) is still worse than Ratcliffe's offer
-Brief from a few days ago that the Qataris haven't heard back from Raine or the Glazers
-Last night's article from the Financial Times sharing new details from the Ineos bid and it seems that all 6 Glazers might be interested in letting a small stake keep growing without them having to lift a finger
-The Glazers seemingly waiting for the season to end before any kind of announcement signals that they are going with the less popular choice among fans: Ineos.
that's not that difficult to answer
a- sport washing doesn't apply only to Qatar. INEOS has its dirty linen to wash as well.
b- Manchester United lie in its brand rather then the dividends its generate
So, INEOS went from no Glazers, to two Glazers, to all the Glazers.
Cool. What's going to be the next little nugget to come out?
Cool. What's going to be the next little nugget to come out?
So this report last night from
Financial Times how are we taking it? Seems the word “could” is doing a lot of heavy lifting.
Financial Times how are we taking it? Seems the word “could” is doing a lot of heavy lifting.
Absolutely spot on. The end goal here as a priority is to remove Glazers from a controlling stake, this is what that does. Ineos will want to do the same and remove the Glazers from the seats at the table, get them out of the boardroom, take enough for sole ownership, then work with those who want to keep a minority share. Ineos are not going to pump money in and let Glazers still make the calls ffs
no matter who takes over, the correct structure needs to be implemented at a football decision making capacity. That’s (hopefully) where the engagement with fans comes in.
Ineos need to learn from their other football ventures, just as Qatar need to learn from their PSG plaything.
The absolute main thing is Glazers as decision makers is gone, that is key as they are sucking the football out of us. Both bids do that - but Ineos are offering more up front in share value - Qatar need to stump up more, there is no tricks here.
By way - I’d also prefer a clean break and at this stage would welcome a Qatar takeover. But I also acknowledge Ineos would be a good 2nd option - both mean Glazers controlling stake is gone. So over to you Qatar, increase your bid or if not hopefully Ineos get it done.
That's their motivation for buying. My question was aimed more at those who think their ownership would represent a new dawn and not even tighter spending controls due to the need to contribute to a debt burden significantly higher than it is today. And the debt today is one of the main reasons fans are so determined to get rid of the current owners.
Indeed. In my view the stories are clearly plants aimed at the Qatar's as a negotiating tactic.
"Top striker could be on his way to City, say sources close to the player" when a contract negotiation is ongoing isn't unheard of
They’ll let the Glazers keep United and give them Ineos too as a sorry for wasting their time
100% this
Correct me if I’m wrong but with the Ineos bid, this will mean the Glazers will remain but with less than 50% of the shares, thus allowing for an ordinary resolution to be passed by Ineos but not a special resolution (75%}.
The debt will increase initially from circa £1bn to approx £4bn (assuming £3bn for the share purchase plus £1bn existing debt). Although this is likely to be moved to a MUFC holding company.
There will be a guarantee for the purchase of the remaining shares over a pre agreed period of time, this will include a minimum purchase price per share but this could increase based on profitability or potential value of the club.
The debt will increase initially from circa £1bn to approx £4bn (assuming £3bn for the share purchase plus £1bn existing debt). Although this is likely to be moved to a MUFC holding company.
There will be a guarantee for the purchase of the remaining shares over a pre agreed period of time, this will include a minimum purchase price per share but this could increase based on profitability or potential value of the club.
I honestly can’t believe this hasn’t been settled yet. I didn’t think it would be as quick as many seemed to think but I thought it would be done before the season was over. Surely now they are just waiting for the FA cup to be done with before we see some real movement.
Given our transfer buisness speed I probably shouldn’t be that shocked. As for who has won I honestly can’t see Qatar private ownership or not letting arguably the biggest sporting brand on earth slip through their fingers. If you’re goal is sports- washing then you’ll find few better clubs to do it with.
Given our transfer buisness speed I probably shouldn’t be that shocked. As for who has won I honestly can’t see Qatar private ownership or not letting arguably the biggest sporting brand on earth slip through their fingers. If you’re goal is sports- washing then you’ll find few better clubs to do it with.
Is it confirmed that this would be the case then? Genuine question, I'm not clued up on it.
If the Glazer/s turn up today I can only assume it is a play to get Jassim to increase his bid.
No way Sir Jim etc, if he is doing a deal with the scum, want them to turn up and amp up the hatred and resentment,
You don't have to be a PR expert to know their presence makes it more difficult to sell the idea.
What Sir Jim has said publically, Glazers being nice and that bollocks, was only to engage them, he knows they are greedy bast RDS.
What is for sure is that Sir Jim does not have the money to buy out the Glazers today, at the inflated value he is proposing. He is relying on future finance and that uncertainty creates risk.
No way Sir Jim etc, if he is doing a deal with the scum, want them to turn up and amp up the hatred and resentment,
You don't have to be a PR expert to know their presence makes it more difficult to sell the idea.
What Sir Jim has said publically, Glazers being nice and that bollocks, was only to engage them, he knows they are greedy bast RDS.
What is for sure is that Sir Jim does not have the money to buy out the Glazers today, at the inflated value he is proposing. He is relying on future finance and that uncertainty creates risk.
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No, it's not. If SJR was to win it's already been said that United’s debt would be moved to Ineos effectively leaving us debt free.
That was said originally, but Ducker (I think) said after that it wasn’t true
Ultimately though nobody knows do they. Because the Glazers seem to think they have some sort of reputation to protect, they aren’t allowing PR
Worrying this new speculated bid from INEOS
Oh did Sir Jim come out and state that? I missed that part.
I guess we'll only know when it happens but I just don't see SJR allowing that sort of debt to stand knowing how damaging it is to the clubs plans. We'll see though.
You ok with your tagline changing to flying RatCliffe?
Qatar need to learn from Malaga more so than PSG.Absolutely spot on. The end goal here as a priority is to remove Glazers from a controlling stake, this is what that does. Ineos will want to do the same and remove the Glazers from the seats at the table, get them out of the boardroom, take enough for sole ownership, then work with those who want to keep a minority share. Ineos are not going to pump money in and let Glazers still make the calls ffs
no matter who takes over, the correct structure needs to be implemented at a football decision making capacity. That’s (hopefully) where the engagement with fans comes in.
Ineos need to learn from their other football ventures, just as Qatar need to learn from their PSG plaything.
The absolute main thing is Glazers as decision makers is gone, that is key as they are sucking the football out of us. Both bids do that - but Ineos are offering more up front in share value - Qatar need to stump up more, there is no tricks here.
By way - I’d also prefer a clean break and at this stage would welcome a Qatar takeover. But I also acknowledge Ineos would be a good 2nd option - both mean Glazers controlling stake is gone. So over to you Qatar, increase your bid or if not hopefully Ineos get it done.
Was it not in one of the many press briefings? It was reported many times but we'll see if he wins the bid, I suppose.
Makes sense to delay any announcment until after our game if this is the bid they are going with
It may have been but I don’t recall him saying he would make Utd debt free. I thought that was one of the big issues supporters had with his bid.
The buy out rumours only started when the backlash from the Glazers staying first broke. The Glazers won’t sell in 3 years because the value won’t have risen by that much and Jim has no incentive to buy.
The Glazers don’t want to fecking go, isn’t that obvious by now?
Sources have said they won’t add more debt to the club, nothing about clearing the debt we have now
I think the issue at the time was that Ineos wasn't going to sweep in and just pay it off. I've definitely read that the debt would be moved but I don't have the patience to go and look through the last 6 month to find it.
Exactly this. Take a loan to buy the initial controlling stake. Take a loan to buyout glazers later on (no idea when that is). Take a loan to build new stadium/renovate Old Trafford.
Like you said INEOS is already servicing £8bn debt, will they nearly double their debt and expect no component of that being serviced by United?
Either way, they are not perfect. Any owner can make mistakes, problem we currently have is Glazers don’t give one ounce of shit about United football side. Qatar and Ineos would concentrate better on the footballing side as that protects their asset, Glazers relied on sponsorship deals that Woodie completed…
the common denominator here is Glazer control - need to get them out of the boardroom asap, Qatar and Ineos offer that and to me both are a step in right direction.
INEOS have never said what will happen with the existing debt. They've deliberately and repeatedly danced around this particular issue.
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