Smalling was, for a time, our best defender. Would he work in a ten Hag team? Probably not, but one on one he was among the best in the league for a period. Everything you're saying is hyperbole, it ain't gonna help your arguments regarding Højlund or anything else for that matter.
Rasmus Højlund | Signed for United
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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Hence the Italian national team having such a horrendous reputation for being easy to score against..... oh wait
Serie A football is all about defence, the league as a whole may not have the quality of the Prem but it doesn't suffer defensively and their top teams are still going deep into Europe year after year, on par with Prem, La Liga and the Bundesliga
Whether teams in aggregate find it easier or harder to score in the PL or Serie A is totally irrelevant. What matters is whether a specific individual player, switching between the leagues, will find it easier to score in one or the other.
The quality in the PL is far higher at this point than the quality in Serie A so a specific forward will find it easier to score in Serie A than in the PL. And we can see this with a lot of players, not just Scamacca.
There aren't that many strikers that have moved between the leagues in the last five years or so. But Lukaku's numbers jumped when he moved to Italy and crashed when he came back. Cristiano averaged 30 his last two seasons at Juventus then hit 18 at United. On a per 90 basis Zlatan scored more with Milan at age 37-38 post knee surgery and after his vacation in LA than he did with United at age 34. Tammy Abraham scored a bit more often at Chelsea than Roma, but he was playing for a much more talented team then went to Mourinho's anti-football.
And then look at the other types of players putting up huge numbers in that league. Ciro Immobile scored 36 goals in a season, better than the all time (pre-Haaland) PL goal scoring record. Luis Muriel put up prime Messi-level numbers for Atalanta on a per 90 basis for a couple years. Between 2018-19 and 2019-20 seasons he had 48 g+a in 2700 minutes.
Frenkie has entered the caf
It amazes me how all of these people who love abusing Maguire feel personally insulted whenever you criticize Smalling. It's absolutely bizarre.
Looks like he regularly shoots with both feet.
Tbf, I don't think that was about the money in the end...
You talking about which type of team Smalling fits into and then talk about what you think is abuse towards Maguire is fecking ironic.....
I dont mix nations with club football. They are two very different formats. England has long Been decorated with cup winners but they still choke all the same.
I don't know whether that is a trend or not, but I've never abused anyone. I don't know why you are implying that I have? Criticize Smalling as much as you want to, no one here is saying he was perfect or that we'd have him back, but don't expect to be taken seriously when everyone of your posts in this thread has been hyperbolic drivel.
Atalanta going to ask for £80m now
Come on, bring this guy by the end of the month. He should play a couple of preseason games in August.
Donny scored a nice goal in our game, so i'd say we can just trade them.
Sounds fair.
The club was perfectly willing to pay, the player didn't want to move.
I'm not the one that you should quote, I'm not the one making the point that a specific player will find it easier or harder to score in a particular league. I generally agree with your take that it's a case by case thing but I will add that in general PL team have scored more which implies that PL players have found scoring easier.
I'm not shitting on the player, I'm shitting on the valuation.
Yeah I think the quality jump is a big factor, assuming a player is able to settle into the club and new surroundings well enough.
Can you share where you are seeing some of this information?
I took a search on footystats and found high level comparisons interesting between the two leagues:
https://footystats.org/italy/serie-a#
https://footystats.org/england/premier-league#
2.57 goals per game in Serie A vs 2.85 in Premier League. I don't think the absolute #goals point has much legs personally. City and Arsenal might be skewing the stats with their rampant performances and I'm curious to know how comparable the goals scored is among the mid table / relegation belly of the league.
Atalanta scored 66 goals whereas we only scored 58. But looking against the rest of the teams, I don't see a material difference. I think we probably score slightly more across the board because of the style of play being more attacking minded, and yes that builds well for strikers, but I don't think that positive landscape for strikers outweighs the negative in a quality jump required for Hojlund to hit the ground running for us.
Also I have to caveat my cynical opinion of him is based on the videos I've seen. He isn't as clean in his general play and his arial stats for a player of his height looked bang average. We can look at Darwin last season (who came in with much more impressive stats) to see how this league can eat a player up if they aren't ready.
We have the same information. Serie A teams scored less than Premier league teams. I offered you an interpretation of that fact that suits the PL which is that the quality being higher(among attackers) they find scoring easier as a collective but there is also the possibility that it's a style thing or that PL teams are worse when it comes to defending. But none of that suggests that it's easier to score in the Serie A or harder to score in the PL.
If you took a striker from the PL and put him in Serie A, my bet is that he'd be likely to score more goals. If you reversed it, I think it's the opposite.
Yes it depends on many factors but we both agree the quality of the PL is greater than Serie A, and my broader point here is that when you take a well performing player in Serie A into PL, you can't extrapolate from his performances in Serie A with too much conviction because of that.
Seria A is a bit slower so players whose main attribute is pace or older players do better than in the PL. But this doesn't apply to general technical difference in the league as such.
The issue with that statement is that there is no actual sample size of something like that being true for any top leagues at any point in my lifetime. Everything I know about Football shows me that you would lose your bet because this kind of things aren't league based but player based.
It's not a pattern that actually exists anywhere, players don't clearly score more or less goals depending on the league they play in, though they may score more or less depending on the team they play for or the stage of their careers they are at. At least not when you are talking about top European leagues.
I wouldn't disagree in general except about maybe players scoring more in Germany just because they play so open. Again that doesn't necessarily apply to everyone, but just what I feel based off what I've seen.
Even then that's not true. Haaland would be a counter example, as would Immobile, Aubameyang or Alcacer.
Edit: Alcacer is a poor example, he had a good record during his first season.
It depends on player and whether his style matches the team's playing style and how many chances team creates, all that and many more.
Tammy scored more for Chelsea in significantly less mins than at Roma.
15 league goals in 2221 mins for Chelsea in 2019-20 and then 6 league goals in 1036 mins.
14 and 8 league goals in 3099 and 2199 mins for Roma.
Morata - At Chelsea 11 league goals in 2067 mins and then 5 league goals in 943 mins
At Juve - 10 league goals in 2019 mins, 8 league goals in 2132 mins
Salah also had much better goal scoring rate in PL than in Serie A.
Lukaku's goal scoring record was very close between Serie A and PL (ManUtd and Inter days).
I sort of agree with the general sentiment, I wouldn't sign a slower player from Serie A but Hojlund isn't slow, looks like he is strong and has lot of pace.
Surely especially English fans have learned the hard way that Serie A, despite its relative slump since the 80s and 90s is still a league that prides itself in solid team defending so to suggest a striker from there would automatically do worse in the PL seems to have no merit. As others have said: its a speed thing more than anything.
I honestly think he's one of those talents that is on the verge of blowing up. Think the fee will come down from what's being reported but I'm not concerned about whether he's ready.
We have already pointed this out here in this thread. Højlund's maximum speed is 36 km/h. That would make him the fastest player on the team and put him in the top 10 fastest players in PL.
In fact, he ran that 36 km/h when he was 18, so maybe he's even faster now. In any case, he can become the fastest player in PL (currently Kyle Walker 37.1 km/h). United fan Usain Bolt will be happy with him.
Just read we would x8 his current wages. Don't worry he's reportedly on 10k a week there.
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Bit like Darwin Nunez?
And what were Darwin’s numbers in his season before going to the dippers?
The levels of hype with this now are just daft.
Fans ‘not concerned whether he’s ready’ to be Utd’s lead CF after scoring 9 goals in Serie A and nothing else…
It’s absolutely batshit and I genuinely worry for the kid walking into a situation like that.
Lukaku -
PL season at Utd - 32 games, 12 goals
Serie A season - 36 games, 23 goals
Serie A season - 36 games, 24 goals
PL season Chelsea - 26 games, 8 goals
The PL is a far better league than Serie A, in all areas.
I agree that Serie A is much weaker but come ont, the above is picking Lukakus best Italian and worst English seasons.
Lukaku 25 goals in 37 in the EPL with Everton. People seem to forget Lukaku was a good goal scorer at one point in the EPL. The guy had 17 goals with West Brom
Lukaku who also failed to score a goal in 6 months the last Serie A season.
Salah
Serie A 34 games - 14 goals
31 games - 15 goals
PL - 36 games - 32 goals.
We can pick and choose numbers quite easily.
He’s scored more than 9 goals though at club level and is running at a goal per game internationally. Him, Marcus and Martial will share the striker role. I’m not concerned as Ten Hag will manage him very well and is pushing the club to sign him as he can see how he fits in.
Not particularly excited about this one but that’s mostly because I haven’t seen him play live once. If the manger wants him then I trust his judgement but I’m a little bit concerned about signing players from Italy. The PL is much faster, let’s hope he can raise his game.
Would like to see that, bit like a scorpion kick? most strikers use either foot
Why people keep mentioning Ramos when we cannot afford the release clause which is 120M Euros....
Okay, with Onana done let's get this in soon and then to the Sofyan thread.
I like that many down on Hojlund because he plays in serie a, yet Osimhen is not facing similar doubts
I agree with a previous poster that he is like this years Antony. Solid player, probably worth £35-40m, but we are getting taken to the cleaners and will end up paying twice his value. There will then be a lot more expectation and pressure on the player to hit the ground running and immediately step up.
Yeah I’m not keen on him, first of all there’s no fecking way he’s 24.
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