Saudi signing wave: What are the implications? Is it weakening the Premier League?

[bosnian_red]

I don't think it'll have a big impact on the premier league. And I don't think it'll ever be a serious league. Glorified retirement league, and the only players they'll take from the prem aside from 30 something's will be those who fear they'd never get an actual big contract (Mitrovic) so jump at the chance.

It will on the other hand severely hurt leagues like Serie A. Leagues where top players would go to top clubs who at least are in the CL when they couldn't really do it at the top PL clubs anymore. Even those lower clubs within the PL who get the top players at the late stages of their careers sometimes who boost them up.

Generally I think it'll be a wave at the start that shakes things around a bit, but quickly they'll find that people don't care all that much... People will watch, but it won't be that competitive, atmospheres will be a bit shit, nobody will care who wins etc. So before long the players will realize that it's really just glorified retirement so it'll adjust who goes there.

 

[Gehrman]

Within 2 years a Saudi Club will be in the ECL is my guess and then that's it. UEFA will love the injection of cash and will be more than happy to legitimise them.

A non European team can't be in the ECL.

 

[Hester_manc]

Getting a player like Mbappé to their league will be a statement and even more topplayers will follow , and I fear that they in a few years can have one of the stronger leagues in the world.

 

[justsomebloke]

You seem to be agreeing with me?

Although on you are incorrect on the examples I mentioned. It kind of proves the point on the strength of a brand, with fashion, cars and watches you are putting them on a pedestal because of their name, brand and reputation but there is no reason a company could not within a short time frame create a manufacturing chain to replicate watches, fashion items and cars of the exact same quality - the difference would be the reputation of the company. The cost to do this would be insanely high but it's a drop in the ocean for them. The value is in the brand not in the actual physical items hence why they aren't trying to rival Ferrari or Rolex, they will just buy into the ownership when possible. That's what they will do in football.

Well, I guess I am agreeing with some of your point, but not on the inferences you draw from brand strength. The point as I see it is that it's a much better and much more feasible option to build up a new brand in football than it is in the examples you mention. For the other sports, there are established global competitions that are hard to supplant or rival, but relatively easy to adapt to your purposes. For things like prestige brands of fashion, watches and cars, it's just insanely hard to squeeze in with something new. The Japanese still haven't really managed it with cars for example, after nearly a century of top quality carmaking, with an industrial base and engineering culture Saudi Arabia can only dream of.

I'm not saying some sort of globalized CL or Super League couldn't be in the works down the road though. But for now it doesn't seem plausible as a primary driver of the effort being put in. Rather I think they primarily want to build a domestic league that provides quality and prestige at home. At least to begin with. But of course, that would also be a necessary and useful stepping stone that would open up broader possibilities.

 

[Wumminator]

Do you genuinely not think so?

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Unless UEFA relents and let’s them into the champions league, it’ll be about as impactful as the Chinese league that was signing all the fringe players like fellaini not so long ago.

 

[Man-United]

Do the teams outside the big 4 teams also got much money?

 

[maniak]

A non European team can't be in the ECL.

There are non-european teams in the CL for political reasons, this time it will be because of money.

 

[justsomebloke]

Your right there is a chance I could be wrong. But generally when you've seen a similar scenario happen multiple times you generally expect what you've seen time and time again to happen again

I see nothing to worry about right now and I think it's nothing to panic about. It's basically big names and henderson with no longevity they're signing.

I know that's how the human brain tends to work, but that expectation is actually a fallacy, which is to say you're making an invalid inference from experience. There is in fact no good reason whatsoever to expect it to happen in the same way again just because it has on two other occasions (which is not "time and time again"), especially given that the situations are only superficially similar.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

A Saudi league x1 could probably challenge for top 4.

The high-profile transfers from European teams to Saudi league in the last year are: Ronaldo, Benzema, Kante, Neves, Koulibaly, Mendy, Brozovic, Firmino, Milinković-Savić, Seko Fofana. That's not challenging for top 4 in the PL. It's not even 11 players.

 

[Gupz]

There is no risk. They can buy as much players they want. Saudi League will always stay a quick cash grab league for players with 0 prestigiousness. Perhaps a bit more enjoyable to go now with the amount of players heading that way. Especially for Muslim players because of Mecca. But the wages won't be sustainable on the long term, especially if they handing out the same wages to the full squad times the amount of clubs in the whole league.

Besides the pool of football players is so large, every "promising" player is interchangeable . it really doesn't matter if the likes as Neves are leaving Europe behind since there will always be another prospect who will rise up. Pro players are still top athletes. They aim to win prestigious prizes and become part of the sports history. That status they won't achieve in the Saudi League.

 

[tenpoless]

Maybe not next season. But if they keep doing it for 5 years the quality will go down as it will encourage more and more quality players to go there, which means PL will have less quality players not only due to them signing the players but the players don't want to join PL to begin with. Domino effect.

PL or money.

 

[redshaw]

Short term prices for players in Europe and particularly young players could inflate even more as European clubs push the finances to extremes competing for their signature. The pool of players becomes smaller with more and more going to the middle east if they keep this up. Has the potential to severely disrupt or erode the various leagues and lower the quality. What happened to say Netherlands could happen to the big European countries in varying degrees of impact

When you look at golf and other sports they will either look to replace you or merge and run it that way.

 

[Wumminator]

The high-profile transfers from European teams to Saudi league in the last year are: Ronaldo, Benzema, Kante, Neves, Koulibaly, Mendy, Brozovic, Firmino, Milinković-Savić, Seko Fofana. That's not challenging for top 4 in the PL. It's not even 11 players.

Add in Mitrovic, Neves and Fabinho and you’re not far off surely?

 

[Suv666]

There are non-european teams in the CL for political reasons, this time it will be because of money.

If that happens most top teams will break away and create the Super league. The fans will end up supporting the move as well.

 

[justsomebloke]

You're not making any sense of it other than the extremely generic "if things are X now then surely they'll be X SQUARED in five years", the same rationale people use to hype up AI, cryptocurrencies, or whatever thing is currently in vogue.

What, you expect me take that critique seriously right after you've made it clear you can't be bothered to consider anything that isn't football? Also, if you're going that route you'll want to consider finding a better example of a passing fad than AI.

 

[Gavinb33]

Add in Mitrovic, Neves and Fabinho and you’re not far off surely?

There is like 4 or 5 centre forwards be an interesting formation I guess

 

[Sassy Colin]

It's not just weakening the PL, FFS, it's weakening World football.

They're doing what City/PSG did/are doing, but applying it to a whole league.

They are basically trying to transform nothing into something.

It's making a mockery of everything that your average football fan feels about football.

 

[SirScholes]

For the umpteenth time, because they're not just signing prem cast offs. A player like Mitrovic is arguably the best and most important player on a mid-table PL team, who desperately do not want to lose him. Someone like Allan St Maximin would strengthen more than half of the teams in the league. And Ruben Neves could plausibly play for nearly anyone. Also, they're pitching for bona fide PL stars like Bruno and Son, so the ambition is obviously higher.

Mate china did the same thing, signed bigger stars than these nobodies and nothing changed.

We are not a weaker league because we don't have saint maximan jesus give your head a wobble

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

A non European team can't be in the ECL.

Given how Kazakstan and Azerbaijan have had teams in the Europa League....

 

[SirScholes]

It's not just weakening the PL, FFS, it's weakening World football.

They're doing what City/PSG did/are doing, but applying it to a whole league.

They are basically trying to transform nothing into something.

It's making a mockery of everything that your average football fan feels about football.

Basically what they did to city, am I right!

 

[Nickelodeon]

It doesn't matter who they sign. When the actual football starts, no one is going to watch those matches barring one off clips on social media. Their only hope is if they manage to get themselves into a CL or equivalent.

 

[Sassy Colin]

Basically what they did to city, am I right!

That's exactly what my post said!

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Add in Mitrovic, Neves and Fabinho and you’re not far off surely?

Fabinho and Mitrovic haven't signed yet.
Which is part of the point... the Saudi League is now linked to every other European player. The actual number they've signed isn't super high and many are 30+ are on their last legs.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Well, I guess I am agreeing with some of your point, but not on the inferences you draw from brand strength. The point as I see it is that it's a much better and much more feasible option to build up a new brand in football than it is in the examples you mention. For the other sports, there are established global competitions that are hard to supplant or rival, but relatively easy to adapt to your purposes. For things like prestige brands of fashion, watches and cars, it's just insanely hard to squeeze in with something new. The Japanese still haven't really managed it with cars for example, after nearly a century of top quality carmaking, with an industrial base and engineering culture Saudi Arabia can only dream of.

I'm not saying some sort of globalized CL or Super League couldn't be in the works down the road though. But for now it doesn't seem plausible as a primary driver of the effort being put in. Rather I think they primarily want to build a domestic league that provides quality and prestige at home. At least to begin with. But of course, that would also be a necessary and useful stepping stone that would open up broader possibilities.

Re car manufacturing what do you mean? Japan are the 3rd biggest car manufacturer in the world, only behind China and the US and were #1 with the US as #2 not too long ago. Furthermore many US cars use/have used Japanese parts. They are inarguably amongst the leading car manufacturers in the world. If you mean 'luxury' car makers (which is probably a better equivalent) I am not sure they have ever tried to really enter that market but they are dominant in the bike world. Point is Saudi have no interest in this approach.

Re bolded that seems extremely unlikely to me, what value is prestige at home to a country with so few inhabitants?

PL is vulnerable, many European leagues are extremely vulnerable right now. They will throw money at UEFA and will be in the CL before 2030.

 

[Steve Bruce]

I know that's how the human brain tends to work, but that expectation is actually a fallacy, which is to say you're making an invalid inference from experience. There is in fact no good reason whatsoever to expect it to happen in the same way again just because it has on two other occasions (which is not "time and time again"), especially given that the situations are only superficially similar.

I'm not here to give hardened facts on what will happen in Saudis league, I'm just giving my opinion. I don't think there's anything to worry about and what's the point in worrying about it?

 

[Gehrman]

Given how Kazakstan and Azerbaijan have had teams in the Europa League....

Shows how stupid i am

 

[UnofficialDevil]

They've took Telles and may take Bailly.

Imagine, just imagine if they took Martial and Maguire too.

That's strengthening our squad in my opinion.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

given that the situations are only superficially similar.

The situations are not superficially similar. They are pretty much the same. All that's changed is the size of the pile of money.

 

[Pronewbie]

If the Saudis keep this ambition up for at least 3 seasons it could seriously weaken the European leagues outside of the PL.

I think comparing the Chinese Super League to the MBS League is superfluous. Just 2 reasons at the top of my head:
1. Unlike the Chinese a couple years ago where it was pretty much private entrepreneurs and tycoons (usually with links to local governments) running amok and pretty much going against the CPC's policies of 1) rural revitalisation, 2) narrowing the income gap and 3) anti-corruption drive, the Saudi one could be a genuine challenger because the initiative is indeed backed top-down.

2. Unlike the Saudis, the Chinese do not have a strong core of players (Chinese or Chinese diaspora) to lift the base level of their competition. The Saudis have a huge talent pool to draw from not just the Middle East but also the Muslim diaspora in Africa & Europe. Many of these players already ply their trade in the top European leagues so you can imagine what will happen when this core group of players are drained from the European leagues. Maybe then we'll see the Ligue 1 allow their Muslim players a minute's break to break fast during Ramadan.

 

[noodlehair]

All those players mentioned in the OP wouldn't be attractive signings to any PL club with ambitions beyond survival, and aren't really wanted anymore at their current club.

It might change eventually but at the moment it's just an alternative to the mls with more financial muscle. No one is going there to further their ambition as opposed to their bank account.

Well apart from Ronaldo, who went there because Ten Hag doesn't respect him or something.

 

[RedorDead21]

You laugh now but city is a perfect example of what that kind of money can do over a sustained period. In 5 years time I’d wager they could have a team capable of being in the PL top 4. I mean that 4th spot you have to be only consistent to get these days!!

 

[red.knight]

The high-profile transfers from European teams to Saudi league in the last year are: Ronaldo, Benzema, Kante, Neves, Koulibaly, Mendy, Brozovic, Firmino, Milinković-Savić, Seko Fofana. That's not challenging for top 4 in the PL. It's not even 11 players.

Add in Mitrovic, Neves and Fabinho and you’re not far off surely?

Add in Henderson, Telles, Jota, Mahrez, Allan Saint-Maximin, Moussa Dembele, Jack Hendry, Sadio Mane. That team can challenge for top 4 in the PL.

 

[Crimson King]

Add in Henderson, Telles, Jota, Mahrez, Allan Saint-Maximin, Moussa Dembele, Jack Hendry, Sadio Mane. That team can challenge for top 4 in the PL.

Maybe on FIFA.

 

[RuudTom83]

Hmm in reality it's not as impressive when you break it down...if anything it's a bit dumb to just spend all that money to have Mbappe for 1 season...and then that's only possible because of a contract disagreement with PSG, who are also owned by the middle east. So it wouldn't really shock me either way.

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

Hopefully PL teams will collude and keep the prices extremely high for aging players. It will get to a point where the Saudi clubs will think that it's not worth it.

Saudis will not pack their small stadiums to watch Neves. Saudis are Barca, Real and United fans.

And let's hope all international sides don't pick any player who plays in Saudi.

Let's hope this ends like the failed China league experiment.

 

[red.knight]

Maybe on FIFA.

They can win the league on FIFA

 

[Crimson King]

They can win the league on FIFA

Ha! Fair point, I've certainly done it with worse!

 

[Plastic Evra]

I think the question is how long they're willing to sustain those investments. More importantly : Will the players going there treat it as seriously as playing in Europe ?

The MLS and China tried their hand at it... And MLS never amounted to much more to a pension home from an Euro perspective despite decades since they brought in Pelé.
Saudi is a lot closer to Europe than the USA or China, that's certainly in their favour.

The view here is very PL centric but they also are on the hunt for younger or good players in other leagues. Saw a young Belgian international joining a club over there ?
I read someone here say that Saudi clubs are limited (as of now) to 10 foreign players IIRC so ultimately we're speaking of... 200 players for their top league ? I think the PL or the top 10-15 Euro leagues can cope with that.
I'm more worried it feeds the unsustainable rise of transfer fees and costs.

It's one thing to bring elite players, but if you want to raise the floor and get a product on the pitch on par with first tier and second tier leagues, you need the clubs and the environment to be on the level. I'd say a lot of clubs in Europe, even top ones, can struggle on that front despite long histories.
Will it impact your visibility for your national team ? Will you able to transfer back to Europe and step up your career ? I think this is things that will matter to players.

Likewise the domestic players need to step up.
Saudi has a decent national team and their top clubs feature highly in the Asian Champion's League, so the potential may be there, but if you have a mix of stars, past it players in pre-retirement and domestic players from good to bad, the games are going to be all over the place quality-wise.

 

[maniak]

I think the question is how long they're willing to sustain those investments. More importantly : Will the players going there treat it as seriously as playing in Europe ?

The MLS and China tried their hand at it... And MLS never amounted to much more to a pension home from an Euro perspective despite decades since they brought in Pelé.
Saudi is a lot closer to Europe than the USA or China, that's certainly in their favour.

The view here is very PL centric but they also are on the hunt for younger or good players in other leagues. Saw a young Belgian international joining a club over there ?
I read someone here say that Saudi clubs are limited (as of now) to 10 foreign players IIRC so ultimately we're speaking of... 200 players for their top league ? I think the PL or the top 10-15 Euro leagues can cope with that.
I'm more worried it feeds the unsustainable rise of transfer fees and costs.

It's one thing to bring elite players, but if you want to raise the floor and get a product on the pitch on par with first tier and second tier leagues, you need the clubs and the environment to be on the level. I'd say a lot of clubs in Europe, even top ones, can struggle on that front despite long histories.
Will it impact your visibility for your national team ? Will you able to transfer back to Europe and step up your career ? I think this is things that will matter to players.

Likewise the domestic players need to step up.
Saudi has a decent national team and their top clubs feature highly in the Asian Champion's League, so the potential may be there, but if you have a mix of stars, past it players in pre-retirement and domestic players from good to bad, the games are going to be all over the place quality-wise.

They can just naturalize some players and fix that problem right away.