I'm Spanish and I can't wait for @SAred to tell me more about my emotions.
Would you just calm down for a minute!?
I'm Spanish and I can't wait for @SAred to tell me more about my emotions.
If that's how you feel you should consider not posting here.Well yeah, thats exactly my point. This place is essentially an echo chamber.
“I wish the players could just focus on the sport. Unfortunately they have had to be political inherently, as we have seen at the last two World Cups.
“The winners previous to this one, the US, were fighting for equal pay at the same time as they were winning the World Cup. This time the Spanish team was fighting against harassment, abuse and assault.
“The resilience of these women to play at the top level whilst being under such unfair and unjust conditions and the ability to be advocates on and off the field is inspiring. I pray for the day they can just be athletes and everything else is fun. For now I find great inspiration from the players.”
“I want to make a little reference to the statement we issued yesterday as a group. Our president [Rubiales] was not in line with what a president should be at a celebration.
“He had a couple of situations that are not typical of the moment, nor of a president. All of this has created a significant media stir and it is a shame that it has tarnished the title achieved by the ladies. It is a shame that it spoils or overlaps the world title because it is a very important feat for our football. It has not been good for the image of Spanish sport.”
I do that all the time and they punch me in the face, but when I told them: "I am latin", they apologize and move onNow I understand that guy who wouldn't let his girlfriend go on holiday to ibiza. Apparently in some people's minds latin people go around all the time kissing women when they're happy, whether the women like it or not.
'The whole response' is Rubiales's own fault. If he would have simply apologized, there would have been no uproar. But he chose a warpath against Hermosa, which made this thing grow and grow - especially because Rubiales has priors for bullying and sexism.This whole response seems extreme and it is not going to win Women's football any new friends. I am not minimising the importance of respecting personal boundaries. But I have seen strangers embrace. I have seen fans hug and kiss male players. The kiss did not seem sexual in any way to me and labelling it as sexual assault seems to be taking it one step too far.
It remains centrally about the abuse of power. How a man in power can use 'the moment' to try and act with impunity and then, if there is any upshot, use his status to iron it all out. The troubling thing about 'the kiss' for me remains the way Rubiales grips the back of Hermoso's head, and also the way her arms half rise, as though making the beginnings of a move to stop him. Hermoso now know she should've registered her displeasure when it happened, presentation ceremony be damned, although her emotions would've been absolutely roiling. But his hands and her arms, caught half-raised for a second, tell their own story.This whole response seems extreme and it is not going to win Women's football any new friends. I am not minimising the importance of respecting personal boundaries. But I have seen strangers embrace. I have seen fans hug and kiss male players. The kiss did not seem sexual in any way to me and labelling it as sexual assault seems to be taking it one step too far.
It remains centrally about the abuse of power. How a man in power can use 'the moment' to try and act with impunity and then, if there is any upshot, use his status to iron it all out. The troubling thing about 'the kiss' for me remains the way Rubiales grips the back of Hermoso's head, and also the way her arms half rise, as though making the beginnings of a move to stop him. Hermoso now know she should've registered her displeasure when it happened, presentation ceremony be damned, although her emotions would've been absolutely roiling. But his hands and her arms, caught half-raised for a second, tell their own story.
It doesn't matter what signal she gives or she does not give. It is not appropriate for Rubiales to kiss a player this way in public. If the player was a man, and that man wanted a french kiss, do you think Rubiales would do it?At the very least Hermoso is giving mixed signals. Her embrace is more passive/more formalised; her hands are lower down on his back. Twice she leans/pulls to her left, his right, as though wanting to avoid dealing with him head-on. His arms hold her higher up and across her body before gripping the back of her head. It's all over in a second or two, so we're practically talking in the realm of micro-gestures. Nevertheless, he's all over her like a cheap suit, as the saying goes.
I absolutely agree (some of my earlier replies should make this clear). I was giving a 'reading' of the video that Goalfather posted in order to back up his claim that this is just a case of Rubiales 'overcome with emotion' and it's all basically a storm in a teacup. To listen to some, Hermoso's displeasure is strictly post-incident, but I think you can sense reluctance in her body language during the incident, for what it's worth. But yes, bottom line: wholly inappropriate, and Rubiales is going to have to completely concede that in the end.It doesn't matter what signal she gives or she does not give. It is not appropriate for Rubiales to kiss a player this way in public.
To be fair, I doubt anyone who knows the story and still sides with Rubiales was ever going to be much of a friend to women's football. Rubiales and RFEFs conduct towards Hermosa after the match (which includes them threatening to sue her for saying she didn't consent to the kiss) should be enough to tell them exactly the sort of man he is and exactly why he thinks he can abuse his power. "Innocent over-enthusiasm" flies out the window when you start to get your staff to invent statements by the player and threaten legal action.This whole response seems extreme and it is not going to win Women's football any new friends. I am not minimising the importance of respecting personal boundaries. But I have seen strangers embrace. I have seen fans hug and kiss male players. The kiss did not seem sexual in any way to me and labelling it as sexual assault seems to be taking it one step too far.
To be fair, I doubt anyone who knows the story and still sides with Rubiales was ever going to be much of a friend to women's football. Rubiales and RFEFs conduct towards Hermosa after the match (which includes them threatening to sue her for saying she didn't consent to the kiss) should be enough to tell them exactly the sort of man he is and exactly why he thinks he can abuse his power. "Innocent over-enthusiasm" flies out the window when you start to get your staff to invent statements by the player and threaten legal action.
In terms of the older allegations against him - that include sexual harassment and misuse of funds - hopefully his removal from a position where he can make/break people's careers will see those exposed as well. Unfortunately, that might still be easier said than done because many of the current RFEF leadership may be incriminated at the same time. Hopefully we'll see a couple of whistleblowers bring him down completely.
Maybe you should do a bit more reading into the history of problems the womens team have had for a long long time. This incident was the straw that broke the camels back.Upon reviewing the video, the interaction appears entirely consensual and non-sexual. It was more of a brief peck on the lips than forced French kiss, following a shared embrace. The gesture concluded with a friendly pat on her back, and she departed with a smile.
The entire exchange took less than five seconds.
Yet, what ensued can best be described as a political vendetta. My sentiments towards the Spanish FA have always been reserved, especially regarding the men's team. However, I did rally behind the women's team in the final. The controversy that emerged post-final has left a sour taste in my mouth.
It's becoming apparent that certain narratives are being deliberately shaped to deepen divisions. It seems pro-feminist factions aim to leverage this incident to push their agenda, seeking as many concessions and changes as possible. Within the Spanish FA, it's evident that there are factions aligned against Rubiales, viewing this situation as an opportune moment to unseat him.
While Rubiales is very likely a skunt and perhaps should be moved, this particular incident has been handled reeks of politics
My broader worry lies in the trajectory of our civic dialogue. The trend appears to be a shift from moderate, reasoned discussion towards more extreme viewpoints. Society is drifting from time-honoured principles of objectivity and the presumption of innocence, veering towards mob mentality and conformist thinking. It's perplexing that in an age with vast information at our disposal, independent thought seems to be dwindling.
He is going to be investigated for sexual assault based on this straw. My whole comment is based on this inconsequential straw. There is nothing in that video that suggests assault. She left the embrace with a big grin on her face, slept on it and then decided it was sexual assault. As I highlighted, I have no compassion for either the Spanish FA or the men's National Team. The way the FA has dealt with contemporary issues like racism etc is tone deaf. However, I can recognise a witchhunt and if there was an investigation to clean the Augean stables. I would have no problem with it. But to use this as the basis is very wrongMaybe you should do a bit more reading into the history of problems the womens team have had for a long long time. This incident was the straw that broke the camels back.
You minimising what happened doesnt alter the long history of problems or reduce the long building frustration thats taken place.
This has nothing to do with so called pro feminist factions, this is all about doing the right things regarding the Spanish womens team.
You speak of objectivity but show you completely lack of it by ignoring the difficulties, problems and issues that have led to this pushback. This isnt an isolated incident. Its perplexing that in an age with vast information you clearly have no idea of whats gone before but if you are aware then i really cant believe you have ended up at these conclusions. You arent exhibiting independent thought, you are exhibiting a complete lack of thought.
Do better.
He is going to be investigated for sexual assault based on this straw. My whole comment is based on this inconsequential straw. There is nothing in that video that suggests assault. She left the embrace with a big grin on her face, slept on it and then decided it was sexual assault. As I highlighted, I have no compassion for either the Spanish FA or the men's National Team. The way the FA has dealt with contemporary issues like racism etc is tone deaf. However, I can recognise a witchhunt and if there was an investigation to clean the Augean stables. I would have no problem with it. But to use this as the basis is very wrong
So do you think it is fair and reasonable for him to face sexual assault charges based on that incident?Just keep focussing on one thing, its great, it enables you to conveniently ignore all thats gone befofre and it allows you to absolve yourself from having to take on a greater understanding of the entire issue at hand. Its a very simplistic angle you are taking which is highly amusing given how much you were bleating on about this era with a vast information available to us and the lack of objectivity. Simplistic angles are the exact opposite of objectivity and making use of vast information available.
You mentioned your view of an agenda but amusingly your agenda is on full display with your inability to see the entire issue and broader picture.
This is not an isolated incident. The resulting backlash is a direct result of all thats gone before.
This isnt a witch hunt.So do you think it is fair and reasonable for him to face sexual assault charges based on that incident?
Do you think it is okay for him to register on the Spanish's equivalent of a sex offender registry based on this incident?
The Spanish FA has historically been corrupt and racist. It wouldn't be shocking if misogyny is also on the list. A comprehensive overhaul is needed, not just removing its figurehead. But genuine reform requires bravery and principles, which seem to be lacking when witch hunts are the easier route.
The answer is quite simple, it was the kiss that was the catalyst for him being removed. It is obvious to anyone who actually watched the video that it was consensual and not sexual. I have seen male players hug kiss and embrace after matches, persons are usually emotional and some boundaries are customarily lowered. She did not pull away, embraced him and left the embrace with a big grin on her face.This isnt a witch hunt.
Your problem is you talk of agendas but you use all those phrases that people with agendas use.
Witch Hunt
Pro Feminist factions
Political Vendetta
push their agenda
mob mentality and conformist thinking
Its interesting that you refuse to talk about the long long list and history of past issues that have led to the current anger and frustration.
You keep focussing on one small point, probably because you think its some sort of "Gotcha" point.
You mention the Spanish sex offender registry as though its already happened and your mentioning of it is one of those alarmist phrases people with agendas use.
With respect to facing a sexual assault charge I dont think thats the right thing to be doing.
He should have resigned, he shouldnt have tried to use emotional blackmail to get Hermosa to sign a statement, he shouldnt have kissed her in the first place and there are a long list of well understood reasons why he shouldnt have done that. He shouldnt have made the speech he made, he clearly has no understanding of why he is in the wrong.
Hey but you keep your attention on one part of a much bigger issue. Its simplistic and lacks the objectivity you were championing earlier.
Do you actually understand why his kissing the player on the lips while holding her head so strongly is completely unacceptable?
I spent many years coaching womens football, won a few titles, had involvement at international age group level. Never in a million years would I ever think of kissing a player on the lips, even when we won a championship or cup.
Again, do you understand the reasons its so wrong??
Answer my question.The answer is quite simple, it was the kiss that was the catalyst for him being removed. It is obvious to anyone who actually watched the video that it was consensual and not sexual. I have seen male players hug kiss and embrace after matches, persons are usually emotional and some boundaries are customarily lowered. She did not pull away, embraced him and left the embrace with a big grin on her face.
The other issues are a separate issue altogether but there was no firestorm or resignations following the racist abuse of countless Black players. Bananas are thrown, monkey noises are made and it is business as usual for the Spanish FA. The Ultras remain and the Spanish FA continue to make money hand over fist.
I guess though the non-Rubiales faction are not complicit in any of the ills that bedevil Spanish football and that the removal of Rubiales is the first step in comprehensive systematic reform rather than merely another power grab and that concessions will be made to women's football as a reward to getting rid of a political opponent.
We both know what is likely to happen.
My issue is that the "kiss" sets a very dubious precedent for removal from office. We live in a culture where things like the presumption of innocence are being placed on the back burner to what is politically convenient.
Any kind of unwanted physical contact is unacceptable, but in this instance, it did not seem non consensual. She did not look shocked or disturbed in any way.Answer my question.
Do you know why it was completely unacceptable for him to have kissed the player in the manner he did?
You still didnt actually answer my question.Any kind of unwanted physical contact is unacceptable, but in this instance, it did not seem non consensual. She did not look shocked or disturbed in any way.
Even 50 % of Vox voters, a far-right party, disagree with you.Any kind of unwanted physical contact is unacceptable, but in this instance, it did not seem non consensual. She did not look shocked or disturbed in any way.
Did she appear shocked or discomfited to you in that video?Even 50 % of Vox voters, a far-right party, disagree with you.
No why was it completely unacceptable?
You have one bit missing in your timeline. After the game when interviewed on tv she was asked about the kiss, she said she didnt like it. With respect to the media jumping in on it you also have to understand there is a long and well documented history of the Spanish womens team having to deal with sexist and misogynistic behaviour. Decades worth. Minimising the kiss ignores the history. This was the straw that broke the camels back.Forgive me if the details are wrong as I haven't followed this too closely. From what I understand, after the kiss, on an Instagram Live video she was being ribbed by her teammates about the kiss and made a comment that would certainly lead you believe she was uncomfortable with it. Then the media started having a go at the guy who kissed her and "Spanish Machismo Culture".
The girl who was kissed, then came out and said that she and the guy are friends and it was no big deal. Has there been more to this?
Thank you for the information. I did try to google before I posted but everything was an opinion piece so it's nice to have facts.You have one bit missing in your timeline. After the game when interviewed on tv she was asked about the kiss, she said she didnt like it. With respect to the media jumping in on it you also have to understand there is a long and well documented history of the Spanish womens team having to deal with sexist and misogynistic behaviour. Decades worth. Minimising the kiss ignores the history. This was the straw that broke the camels back.
Why does this matter? This kiss already happened and she might have been in shock. If a woman I was not romantically involved with kissed me on the lips I probably won’t be visibly upset but I sure wouldn’t like it.Did she appear shocked or discomfited to you in that video?
She initially said to the press that she only wanted to talk about the football.The girl who was kissed, then came out and said that she and the guy are friends and it was no big deal. Has there been more to this?
I don't know Rubiales from Adam
All these centrist enlightened freethinkers are exactly the same, which is crazy considering the amount of freethinking they do and how much they despise the (other) "mob". They're all so fecking transparent.in an age with vast information at our disposal
I can't wait for Piers to go away. How this clown keeps getting these interviews is beyond me. In fact - if he s doing the interview I already assume no one else wanted to take you serious so you may as well say admit to being wrong in whatever pitty show you're trying to put on.Tweet
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This has been posted in a YouTube clip as well, and the comments under it are predictably depressing.Tweet
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