WWC23 | England v Spain - Spain win the World Cup - and Rubiales gets sacked

[carvajal]

You dont even know their reasoning behind their demands. They havent explained anything about any of those topics and why they want those changes. "We hate the patriarchy" is not reason enough, any group of men that would make such extreme demands and changes would be expected to at least write a very detailed and long explanation about each of those changes they expect.

People see those demands and they just eat them up because of course everybody wants to be a good guy and fight against patriarchy. I mean, the women's league exists basically because of "patriarchy", they are funded by the men's leagues, they make their money thanks to men's football. Valencia vs Real Madrid had 1000 spectators just this past week, yet they are demanding salaries higher than even a good portion of the men in the men's league.


Im all for fighting against injustice, but lets just call a spade a spade.

Although the audiences are still low, there has been a lot of increase.
On television 127%. In the case of Valencia-Madrid it has doubled in one year, from 500 to 1000 spectators.
I don't think they can earn like men, simply because they don't generate enough to maintain it, but the minimum salary in la liga is €182,000 a year and in women's football €21,000. It is not a scandal that they ask for improvements. Regarding the public, last year the Camp Nou was filled to see the clásico and I would bet that the same will happen if they play at the Bernabéu at some point.

 

[carvajal]

Tomé has called about 15 players from those who signed the letter. Jenni Hermoso is not going, she says to protect her.
A few hours later there was a statement from the players insisting that they do not want to go, that they didn't communicate any change of idea to the federation and that the call is not valid in a timely manner, citing an article from a Fifa statute (I think it does not apply in this case)
It also says that they will study the legal measures to which they are exposed.

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It could be said that the call is a bit of a trap by the federation, since being official it forces them to attend.
A while ago the president of the superior sports council said "I hope the call has been agreed upon with them. If they don't show up, we will have to apply the law. I would never want to do what I would have to do at that moment. The Sports Law says what it says."
Fine of up to €30,000 and suspension between 2 and 15 years depending on the degree of severity.
I wonder what will happen now, if some or all of them will get off the boat or continue, and what the CSD will do in this situation.

and now a statement from Jenni Hermoso, wondering about the reasons for her not going and saying that it is all a strategy of division and manipulation

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[Lightbringer]

What an odd way to frame this? As if you're excited that this is happening?

Whatever your views on the matter, can you not agree that this is just a really shit situation for the players who should be celebrating their crowning achievement? And this is whats dominating the news instead?

I am not sure if you are speaking english as a main language or not, but saying that the battle is on between the parties is not taking any sides, not in english, nor in my main language. Its only a reflection on where the situation is currently going if the report is indeed true, something I obviously cant verify at this point.

My thoughts on the matter atm is that everyone in the room that was cheering for Rubiales should be fired with immediate effect (30-40 people?) including Spains mens team coach and and the few women who applauded him, that would signal that everyone that has in any way or form supported Rubiales in this post-kiss quest must go.

I have also seen that the players are also not happy with the apology of many of these individuals including the mens team coach, who they think changed sides way to late when it had became clear that anyone not backing the immediate sacking of Rubiales & Vilda would risk losing their own jobs, hence meaning their could be widespread bad apples that joined the players in their calls to clean out Rubiales and Vilda but may pose a threat to the players later if they are just acting to keep their jobs.

I also suspect the new coach will have to be fired since she was Vildas second hand and also supported him against the players when the players tried to get rid of Vilda via a coup last time around!

 

[Stack]

Although the audiences are still low, there has been a lot of increase.
On television 127%. In the case of Valencia-Madrid it has doubled in one year, from 500 to 1000 spectators.
I don't think they can earn like men, simply because they don't generate enough to maintain it, but the minimum salary in la liga is €182,000 a year and in women's football €21,000. It is not a scandal that they ask for improvements. Regarding the public, last year the Camp Nou was filled to see the clásico and I would bet that the same will happen if they play at the Bernabéu at some point.

About 6 years ago the Australian womens team played a WC qualifier in front of 7500 people, they have just booked a 60,000 seat stadium because the pressure for tickets has been so great, they expect to sell it out within days.

 

[africanspur]

I am not sure if you are speaking english as a main language or not, but saying that the battle is on between the parties is not taking any sides, not in english, nor in my main language. Its only a reflection on where the situation is currently going if the report is indeed true, something I obviously cant verify at this point.

My thoughts on the matter atm is that everyone in the room that was cheering for Rubiales should be fired with immediate effect (30-40 people?) including Spains mens team coach and and the few women who applauded him, that would signal that everyone that has in any way or form supported Rubiales in this post-kiss quest must go.

I have also seen that the players are also not happy with the apology of many of these individuals including the mens team coach, who they think changed sides way to late when it had became clear that anyone not backing the immediate sacking of Rubiales & Vilda would risk losing their own jobs, hence meaning their could be widespread bad apples that joined the players in their calls to clean out Rubiales and Vilda but may pose a threat to the players later if they are just acting to keep their jobs.

I also suspect the new coach will have to be fired since she was Vildas second hand and also supported him against the players when the players tried to get rid of Vilda via a coup last time around!

Not sure what is with the patronising language comment but I didn't suggest that you had taken a side?

Only that exclaiming its on! is generally showing some excitement for a situation that overall I just find incredibly sad and distasteful.

 

[jojojo]

At the WWC Infantino talked about the need for women in football to "push the doors open'' - that's where they stand now with RFEF.

Rubiales has been replaced by his RFEF deputy. Vilda was replaced by his coaching team deputy. There's supposed to be a commitment for cultural and structural change. But, by naming players who asked not to be called up, their first action is to demonstrate that they don't care about the criticism and that they'd sooner use threats instead.

Amongst the players called up is Mapi Leon - a player who missed the WWC because she wouldn't withdraw her criticism of RFEF. United's Lucia Garcia who also left the squad last year as part of the same complaining group was called up too - RFEF haven't arranged flights for her, nor confirmed travel expenses.

The notifications went out late - presumably to make it hard for the players to plan or protest. Their clubs weren't notified until late - maybe even too late for the full RFEF sanctions to be used against them.

We'll see what happens next, but so far there's no sign of RFEF wanting to create anything other than a negative environment for their World Cup winners and for the players who left the team a year before. The underlying complaint then was around a culture of bullying and lack of respect.

The women were right - changing a couple of names on the doors isn't enough.

 

[Lightbringer]

Spain is reigning U17, U20 and world cup champs, just imagine the dominance they could get if operations ran smoothly and all players were available for selection.

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[Rood]

Very strange to do all this publicly and seemingly without any communication between RFEF and the players in advance

surely there would be some dialogue between the new coach and the players before selecting them

 

[RoyH1]

The Spanish Football Federation's methods to dealing with all of this are going to be taught in conflict resolution literature for decades to come. Fining players for not showing up to a call at a time like this? Really?

 

[Lightbringer]

If these 39 players refuse to play, can Spain select the remaining of the 41 players + Athenea (who have quit the strike) who previously boycotted to get rid of Rubiales? It was 81 players who boycotted to fire Rubiales. And 39 that signed the recent boycott before the games Vs SWE & SUI.

Or is it walk over for team Sweden if these 39 players dont play? Oh well, 39 players were not selected of course, but is it this squad or nothing or can they just call up the back ups now when it has emerged the current selectes ones wont play?

 

[horsechoker]

This world cup should be just be awarded to England

People need to stop trying to prevent it from coming home

 

[Lightbringer]

Very strange to do all this publicly and seemingly without any communication between RFEF and the players in advance

surely there would be some dialogue between the new coach and the players before selecting them

Communication seems to be non-existent....


Also, the new coach Montse answered a question from the press with the following answer: "I am not Jorge Vilda", so things are pretty tense already!

 

[Lightbringer]

"The players have been called up without notice!

The 23 summoned found out about their call at the same time as the fans, according to MD

Several did not respond to the email required by the RFEF, so they understood that this way they maintained the status of 'non-selectable'

According to Mundo Deportivo, no one in the RFEF had previously announced that they were going to be on this list, despite Montse Tomé assured in a press conference that she spoke to them: "Yes, I spoke to them." Everything I've discussed with them I'm not going to disclose, they're things that come into the relationship"

Mundo Deportivo
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So the federation sent out emails to the players, who read them and did not bother to reply, and then the federation went ahead and selected them and the coach promised she had spoken to them and got their assurance.

I would guess it a power play test from the federation to see how solid the resistance from the players are! What the plan is from there I have no idea if they even have one.

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[Lightbringer]

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" Montse also denied being one of those identified by the players as someone who they wanted to be replaced saying "this news has not reached me."

 

[Lightbringer]

Olga Carmona & Misa Rodriguez have showed up already. And Athenea del Castillo but she had already announced she would be there of course as she no longer wants to boycott anything.

Real Madrid all of them.

The thing is if enough players show the remaining striking players like Leon will lose all their power and it will be like before the World Cup again for them, they must be mad at the other players for abandoning them. With spain being reigning U17 and U20 champs they have no shortage of players to select from, so in that sense the federation has the power.

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[maniak]

If this is how they operate when the whole world is watching, just imagine how they operate behind the curtains. The whole thing must be rotten to the core.

 

[Lightbringer]

If this is how they operate when the whole world is watching, just imagine how they operate behind the curtains. The whole thing must be rotten to the core.

The problem is the Federation have already gotten ridden of Rubiales and fired Vilda as a bonus. It was easy to sacrifice them to survive themselves. Now however the federation must start sacking people among themselves, which is probably why the play hardball.

What happens if they agree to fire additional people in the federation and then themselves end up next being fired as sacrificial lambs? At this point its basically the federation protecting their own jobs, and I cant see them backing down on that unless something extra-ordinary transpires, if the Federation is serious about suing the players for defamation, they wont back down at all.

 

[maniak]

The problem is the Federation have already gotten ridden of Rubiales and fired Vilda as a bonus. It was easy to sacrifice them to survive themselves. Now however the federation must start sacking people among themselves, which is probably why the play hardball.

What happens if they agree to fire additional people in the federation and then themselves end up next being fired as sacrificial lambs? At this point its basically the federation protecting their own jobs, and I cant see them backing down on that unless something extra-ordinary transpires.

As a bonus? They weren't sacrificed, they were rightly removed. I don't understand you sacrificial lambs comment, doesn't that imply that innocent people are being thrown under the bus?

Recent events show the problems go way beyond those 2 guys, hence my "rotten to the core" comment.

 

[Lightbringer]

As a bonus? They weren't sacrificed, they were rightly removed. I don't understand you sacrificial lambs comment, doesn't that imply that innocent people are being thrown under the bus?

Recent events show the problems go way beyond those 2 guys, hence my "rotten to the core" comment.

No, it just mean that they need to sacrifice people to maintain their jobs regardless if they are innocent or guilty. Lets just say some the head chiefs now want to stay in charge.They can offer to fire a couple of more people or even a whole department to try to calm things down and stay in their position. As for Vilda, obviously he was fired in the aftermath of the Rubiales scandal to please the players as an attempt to end the strike, which did not work out for them.

Thats why I dont see them backing down, because if they agree to fire more people, they might end up fired themselves if the players keep up pushing even if they let go of more people. So even if some people in the federation would agree with some of what the players are saying, they might care more about their own livelihood in the end. It could lead to a long standoff, because what more do the federation employees have to lose than losing their jobs? They might argue its better to go down fighting with a hope to win than just stepping down.

 

[antk]

Have the male players said anything those last few weeks?

 

[Lightbringer]

Have the male players said anything those last few weeks?

Not since they backed the axing of Rubiales. The mens coach also claimed he was duped into giving Rubiales a standing ovation when he said he would not re-sign. Meaning he came to the meeting expecting Rubiales to announce him stepping down, but then he said the opposite and the mens coach was surprised and applauded Rubiales.

 

[Lightbringer]

6 out of 21 players have showed up. Misa Rodríguez, Olga Carmona, Athenea del Castillo, Oihane Hernández, Eva Navarro and Tere Abelleira,

Now it just remains to be seen if the government of Spain or some kind of higher power can intervene.

Its also being said the players claims that because they were called up late they cant be punished might be not work, since RFEF works under different kind of regulations than FIFA.

 

[Lightbringer]

Looks like this afternoon is the time for a resolution if its going to happen. Bonmati makes 800 000 EURO per year, so I doubt she cares if she gets fined 30 000 EURO at worst if things go south. But my expectation now would be that they reach some kind of deal this afternoon and start negotiations after the games vs Sweden and SUI.

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"The entire squad will gather in Valencia. The Barcelona players gather in another location before taking the train to the city.

That is reported by AP.

Players who do not show up risk being fined up to 30 000 EURO and having their player license revoked. According to Antón Meana of Cadena SER, 14 players are seeking legal advice at the last minute to avoid attending.

According to Marca, we will have an emergy meeting with Spain's highest sports council this afternoon to try to resolve the conflict that has been going on for over a year and intensified after Luis Rubiales kissed Jennifer Hermoso after the World Cup final.

Furthermore, the Spanish government has made a statement.

- The government wants the Spanish team to be able to play their matches and that the federation not leave Spain without a team. We want clear promotions to take place, for the players' faith to be restored, and as soon as possible. We want to see them play and see them win, says a spokesperson in a statement."

https://www.aftonbladet.se/sportbla...spelare-till-landslaget-infor-sverige-matchen

 

[maniak]

So this whole thing filled with sexism, misogyny and abuse might end up with the women being punished. I guess it's not surprising.

 

[Lightbringer]

Meanwhile Rubiales is forced to sell his luxury house in Madrid to cover the legal costs in his quest to avoid 4 years in jail for the sexual assault on Hermoso.

Rubiales lost a monthly income of 60 000 EURO from RFEF and also lost his car, housing and salary from UEFA as he lost that position as well, so you imagine he might be in financial dire straits, he might be imprisoned and financial bankrupt shortly.

"The RFEF president receives a lucrative salary of 634,518.19 euros gross per year. In addition to this fixed salary, he receives a housing allowance of 36,000 euros per year and a further 250,000 euros per year as vice-president and member of UEFA's executive committee."

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He is also facing losing his prestigious gold medal award as women are protesting:

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[Lightbringer]

Looks like Sweden will face an elite Spain team:

Pablo Parra , on Radio MARCA: "

"The CSD (Higher Sports Council) has warned the soccer players that if they do not go, they have to sanction them. There will be a meeting today at 8:00 p.m."

 

[Rood]

When is this match anyway?

Have not heard any Lionesses squad announcement

 

[VanKenny]

That must be your worst comment so far. Let's have a look at how the patriarchy supported women's football in the UK:

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...mens-football-in-1921-and-tried-to-justify-it

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/59475956

That's right: women's football was doing great until it got barred from using FA grounds, keeping it in frozen suspension for decades, until women could start playing again - at that point obviously many decades behind the men's game in its technical and financial development, which didn't improve in a hurry due to the ridicule and condescion from the (men's) football establishment.

So if anything, the 'patriarchy' has quite a lot to make up for, to compensate for their past suppression of women's football.

I think that's what everyone is thinking about your posts by now. Well, it's between that and real ignorance.

Why are you bringing up UK's women football to the discussion? We are talking about the spanish football federation. Players are refusing to play and are making a list of demands that basically represents a restructure from top to bottom. People would lose their jobs, including women, if everything they are asking for is granted.


All im saying is, you have a list of demands, at least give some reasoning as to why you want all those changes implemented. This doesnt make me a misogynist, i would expect the exact same from a group of male football players if they wanted to change everything about the federation without giving any reasoning, and that wouldnt make me a misandrist would it?

 

[Cheimoon]

Why are you bringing up UK's women football to the discussion? We are talking about the spanish football federation. Players are refusing to play and are making a list of demands that basically represents a restructure from top to bottom. People would lose their jobs, including women, if everything they are asking for is granted.


All im saying is, you have a list of demands, at least give some reasoning as to why you want all those changes implemented. This doesnt make me a misogynist, i would expect the exact same from a group of male football players if they wanted to change everything about the federation without giving any reasoning, and that wouldnt make me a misandrist would it?

That's not the point I responded it, it was your comment about women's football existing because of the patriarchy.

 

[VanKenny]

That's not the point I responded it, it was your comment about women's football existing because of the patriarchy.

I was merely talking about the spanish league, but at the end of the day, its the same thing. Its the same as what happens with the WNBA, by itself the women's league wouldnt survive. They have huge amounts of support from the men's leagues otherwise they wouldnt be able to make such a good living from a job that isnt really making anybody other than themselves any kind of money (football is still a business).

Now, they want to restructure everything, want people fired from basically all departments and areas of the federation (some of them are women or men that depend on that job to support their families), and some people are blindly jumping on board with all those demands. How about we take a second, breath in breath out, apply some critical thinking and ask for their reasoning for all those demands? "Men are bad" isnt a good enough reason, but that may just be my misogynist self talking.

 

[top1whoisman]

When is this match anyway?

Have not heard any Lionesses squad announcement

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[jojojo]

Another round of discussions between the team, RFEF, mediated by the CSD (Spanish sport authority) that continued through the night.

Two of the players left the camp after the meeting but the others have stayed in the squad and the match will go ahead.

https://x.com/SHEscoresbanger/status/1704328155111071913?s=20

If the Spanish gossip shows are accurate then there will be another round of sackings/resignations over the next week "of those closest to Rubiales". There will also be a restructuring of the board that manages the women's team.

Vamos a ver.

 

[carvajal]

Now it will not be said as the Spanish men's or women's football team, but simply as the Spanish football team.

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One in the comments asks if we now have two stars on the shield.
I wonder when the players, or rather the political or union groups that control them, will release to the press the names of their favorites to occupy the position.

 

[jojojo]

Irene Paredes and Alexis Putellas did the Spanish team press conference in Sweden yesterday. Unfortunately I haven't found a version with English subtitles and I'm too lazy to translate. At any rate it was a good press conference.

They say that they now have to trust RFEF to carry out the terms of the deal that was done.

Broadly the deal includes some senior people resigning/getting sacked by RFEF, a restructuring of the boards running it and new complaints and safeguarding structures.

In terms of the players called up to the squad, they were asked to stay and play. There was a promise not to sanction any player who decided to leave. Mapi Leon and Patri Guijarro decided to go home. The other players are now in Sweden preparing for their match this evening.

 

[Rood]

Good summary from Balague - as he says the kiss was just 'the straw that broke the camels back' and this whole situation has been building for some time

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66873595

 

[horsechoker]

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...tball-for-three-years-over-jenni-hermoso-kiss

Luis Rubiales banned from football for three years over Jenni Hermoso kiss

• Conduct at World Cup final prompts ban from game
• Former RFEF president quit his role after scandal

 

[GhastlyHun]

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...tball-for-three-years-over-jenni-hermoso-kiss

Luis Rubiales banned from football for three years over Jenni Hermoso kiss

• Conduct at World Cup final prompts ban from game
• Former RFEF president quit his role after scandal

It took long enough but it's good to see some consequences instead of just never hearing anything anymore after the matter left the headlines.

 

[top1whoisman]

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[jojojo]

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Some of the eye-witness evidence in the case came from Debbie Hewitt - the chairperson of the FA who was next to him during the awards ceremony. Sounds like she wasn't impressed by what she saw.

Rubiales replied to her evidence to FIFA by saying she either "blatantly lies" or "speaks from ignorance."

The FIFA report is in the link.

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[Iker Quesadillas]

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Rubiales trying to sell an NTF of him as a child.

Not sure what's going on here.