Nah Bellingham is the real deal.
Under Fergie he'd have been a guaranteed signing for us. A real sickener to miss out on him.
Jude Bellingham | Real Madrid player
- Thread starter Samid
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Under Fergie he'd have been a guaranteed signing for us. A real sickener to miss out on him.
Will help him a lot that he doesn't play in England
Yeah, a magic bullet for their midfield
Yeah who wants that.
He will only become one of the very best centre midfielders if he can learn to dictate play and control the game ala Xavi, Pirlo, Modric, Scholes. That is what separates the mentioned players from the likes of Gerrard, Lampard etc.
If he keeps his stats high through his career him being able to dictate a game or not won't count as much
Find it fun some in his transfer thread after his WC performances didn't see the hype with Jude.
Wish United broke the bank for him honestly, top class and one of those players in this generation that will go down as truly special.
Wish United broke the bank for him honestly, top class and one of those players in this generation that will go down as truly special.
Should not have signed Sancho and break the bank for Jude before Real Madrid came sniffing.
Why not? Lampard has 177 goals and 102 assists in his career and he's not seen on the same level as the top level midfielders.
Because he didn't have the same accomplishments at certain levels. Lampard could have been a game controller but no one would put him on the same level as Modric because "5 CL rings Erneh"
If Bellingham has the stats and trophies to match then he'll be placed in that conversation (except in the draft forum)
Maybe there's a reason only playmaking midfielders have that many UCLs
In the past 10-20 years, there hasn't been one truly great team with highscoring midfielders. That aside, Bellingham probably won't be regarded as a CM if he keeps developing like he does. He's already playing a bit like a false 9 at Madrid at least.
That is a horrible heuristic.Maybe there's a reason only playmaking midfielders have that many UCLs
That aside, Bellingham probably won't be regarded as a CM if he keeps developing like he does. He's already playing a bit like a false 9 at Madrid at least.
I agree he's more of a false 9 at the moment
Why is it horrible? Modern systems simply evolved in a way that doesn't fance goal scoring CMs. Pressing resistance, ball retention/progression, escaping pressure, etc. are the sought after attributes in teams at the highest level. Modric won 5 UCLs because he is incredibly good. Madrid wouldn't have been nearly as good with Lampard in this team instead of him.
I don’t think so. I think he should and will be maximised higher up the field.
City are a truly great team and De Bruyne isn’t a playmaker like Xavi Modric or Kroos he is a final third player.Maybe there's a reason only playmaking midfielders have that many UCLs
That aside, Bellingham probably won't be regarded as a CM if he keeps developing like he does. He's already playing a bit like a false 9 at Madrid at least.
He doesn’t need to do that at all, De Bruyne doesn’t play make like the aforementioned and can be named not too far from that convo.
The initial reference mentioned stats, not just goals and while Jude is getting attention right now for his goal scoring, he is also capable of assisting.
No love for Kaka or DeBruyne? They both put up pretty good numbers in CL winning teams. Or do those teams not count as truly great in your view?
Lampard simply wasn't as good or technically gifted as them, no matter how many stats he racked up or how many penalties he took. It seems like this assessment of Jude's ceiling speaks more to stylistic preferences than it does to quality of the player. I would not call Yaya Toure a midfield controller, but he too found great success and put up high scoring stats, though he was not at the level of the Xavi and Modric's of the world.
Genuine question, because I have not watched him enough: would you class Florian Wirtz as a "controller" type midfielder? From what I gather, he has similar potential without necessarily filling that mould because has some of the risk-seeking qualities helpful for breaking down low blocks.
Or not let Dortmund to steal him at first place. Same as with Haaland. We were interested and Dortmund offered better terms to player.
Same question was posed of Matthaus in his mid-20s. He ended up being so good it didn't matter that it wasn't his natural game to play-make from the middle.
Honestly, how have Chelsea, United, Liverpool, City and Arsenal allowed the best English midfield prospect go to Madrid unchallenged? It's not like they are reigning European champions either.
Liverpool might have landed him had they made the CL, fact of the matter is though if Madrid or Barca call most players are picking them no matter their nationality.
Wouldn't have mattered. He makes at least as much as Salah gets. Liverpool's owners are not paying two Salah wages.
We're lucky the Saudis didn't come in with 200m for Salah at the beginning of the transfer window.
Gave me a good chuckle, that.
That's true
De Bruyne is a good call. Kaká had his prime in a different era, IMO, because Guardiola and Klopp started a rapid tactical revolution. So maybe it would be more correct to speak of truly great teams in the last 15 years.
Wirtz is definitely a creator, his best attributes are his through balls and his dribbling between the lines
He's great at retaining possession, ball progression and escaping pressure as well but in our current setup, he's the one who takes risks and tries things while Xhaka, Palacios and Hofmann often register 90+% passing accuracy. I think in general, we should see players in roles and less so in strict positions. You have controlling midfielders like Modric, Kroos, Xavi, Thiago, Gündogan, etc. and then players who play between the lines and try to create chances but they can play in different positions. Messi for instance occupies very similar areas in possession as De Bruyne. I see Bellingham, Wirtz, Musiala, Pedri, etc. in that role, even if they are very different stylistically. They could even play a false 9 type of role as Bellingham is currently doing. Alonso used Wirtz a lot in that position as well last season with fast runners besides him
I read somewhere that he's wearing strapping on his knees when he plays because of the injury he had. A lot of these newer generation young players (Pedri, Saka etc) have had a lot of minutes in their legs, due to covid giving no summer break, the delayed Euros, and the crap Nations League and very few of them ever get rested. I worry that a lot of these will pick up injuries like Pedri and Fati, it's not natural to play so much with so little break.
Real more or less is THE biggest club in the world and Bellingham is unusually open to moving abroad for an English player, as he already proved by moving to Dortmund.
May be they did, but the pull to play for Real Madrid is huge.
Good point. Had he been playing in England, I think he may have gone to the big PL sides. But as he's been away, the decision was probably made easier.
If Greenwood ever has a way back, he could benefit from this suspension.
Neither are Chelsea, United, Liverpool and Arsenal.
Yes but he's English. We don't fantasise about Real Madrid the same way everyone else does.
He doesn't need to learn that at all, he's a different type of player. More Zidane than any of those.
Was it unchallenged? Liverpool wanted him and he rejected City, United tried for him years ago and he rejected them.
Madrid really went hard for him in the last year and got Zidane to invite him to the Bernabeu and charm him.
You don’t? It’s the most acclaimed club in the world with a fantastic fanbase and a city nicer than any English one. I think majority of top English players would choose Real over Arsenal, Chelsea, Pool or us. Perhaps City comes close with guaranteed trophies, military grade dope, Pep and payments under the table, but otherwise you’d have to be a fool to go to Arsenal instead of Real if you were a player as talented as Jude.
Nope. I get that they're the biggest club in the world but I don't think if given the chance, I would choose Madrid or Barcelona, Bayern or Milan for that matter over United, Chelsea, Liverpool or Arsenal.
Maybe they fantasised less than everyone else do but that did not stop McManaman, Owen, Beckham, Woodgate, Bale (he's Welsh I know) or Bellingham himself from going there.
You made your first statement sound like a scientific rule in spite of the evidences against.
A) Man United can't get players like that anymore
B) The club's current toxicity can destroy literally any player. I'm sure they'd be able to make Zico look average.
C) It's better for him to play in another country, far away from the build 'em up and slap 'em down English media.
Fair enough but I don’t know if you can speak for all English players. If I were a lad as talented as Jude, from a purely sporting perspective I don’t think I’d choose any English club other than City over Madrid, unless I was a lifelong fan of one. Relatively less pressure (it’s immense still, but nothing tops the pressure that’s on a young English superstar playing for a top English team that payed 100m for him and if you’re not white it’s probably even worse), trophies more guaranteed, level of football as high, quality of life arguably much higher. For me he’s a smart lad for turning down Liverpool in decline and leaving England early has been an excellent choice for his development.
This point is pretty silly considering he plays for a club whose fans famously turn on a dime.
Re-watched the Scotland match. Good god this guy is the real deal. His movement and instincts off the ball are something else. Makes the De Jong mania look a bit ridiculous.