Marwood
Full Member
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- Mar 6, 2021
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Nah Bellingham is the real deal.Ah the England player boom-bust cycle
Under Fergie he'd have been a guaranteed signing for us. A real sickener to miss out on him.
Nah Bellingham is the real deal.Ah the England player boom-bust cycle
Will help him a lot that he doesn't play in EnglandAh the England player boom-bust cycle
Yeah, a magic bullet for their midfieldLiverpool dodged a bullet not getting this guy.
Yeah who wants that.Yeah, a magic bullet for their midfield
If he keeps his stats high through his career him being able to dictate a game or not won't count as muchHe will only become one of the very best centre midfielders if he can learn to dictate play and control the game ala Xavi, Pirlo, Modric, Scholes. That is what separates the mentioned players from the likes of Gerrard, Lampard etc.
Why not? Lampard has 177 goals and 102 assists in his career and he's not seen on the same level as the top level midfielders.If he keeps his stats high through his career him being able to dictate a game or not won't count as much
Because he didn't have the same accomplishments at certain levels. Lampard could have been a game controller but no one would put him on the same level as Modric because "5 CL rings Erneh"Why not? Lampard has 177 goals and 102 assists in his career and he's not seen on the same level as the top level midfielders.
Maybe there's a reason only playmaking midfielders have that many UCLs In the past 10-20 years, there hasn't been one truly great team with highscoring midfielders.Because he didn't have the same accomplishments at certain levels. Lampard could have been a game controller but no one would put him on the same level as Modric because "5 CL rings Erneh"
If Bellingham has the stats and trophies to match then he'll be placed in that conversation (except in the draft forum)
That is a horrible heuristic.Maybe there's a reason only playmaking midfielders have that many UCLs In the past 10-20 years, there hasn't been one truly great team with highscoring midfielders.
That aside, Bellingham probably won't be regarded as a CM if he keeps developing like he does. He's already playing a bit like a false 9 at Madrid at least.
Why is it horrible? Modern systems simply evolved in a way that doesn't fance goal scoring CMs. Pressing resistance, ball retention/progression, escaping pressure, etc. are the sought after attributes in teams at the highest level. Modric won 5 UCLs because he is incredibly good. Madrid wouldn't have been nearly as good with Lampard in this team instead of him.That is a horrible heuristic.
I agree he's more of a false 9 at the moment
I don’t think so. I think he should and will be maximised higher up the field.He will only become one of the very best centre midfielders if he can learn to dictate play and control the game ala Xavi, Pirlo, Modric, Scholes. That is what separates the mentioned players from the likes of Gerrard, Lampard etc.
City are a truly great team and De Bruyne isn’t a playmaker like Xavi Modric or Kroos he is a final third player.Maybe there's a reason only playmaking midfielders have that many UCLs In the past 10-20 years, there hasn't been one truly great team with highscoring midfielders.
That aside, Bellingham probably won't be regarded as a CM if he keeps developing like he does. He's already playing a bit like a false 9 at Madrid at least.
He doesn’t need to do that at all, De Bruyne doesn’t play make like the aforementioned and can be named not too far from that convo.He will only become one of the very best centre midfielders if he can learn to dictate play and control the game ala Xavi, Pirlo, Modric, Scholes. That is what separates the mentioned players from the likes of Gerrard, Lampard etc.
The initial reference mentioned stats, not just goals and while Jude is getting attention right now for his goal scoring, he is also capable of assisting.Why is it horrible? Modern systems simply evolved in a way that doesn't fance goal scoring CMs. Pressing resistance, ball retention/progression, escaping pressure, etc. are the sought after attributes in teams at the highest level. Modric won 5 UCLs because he is incredibly good. Madrid wouldn't have been nearly as good with Lampard in this team instead of him.
Or not let Dortmund to steal him at first place. Same as with Haaland. We were interested and Dortmund offered better terms to player.Should not have signed Sancho and break the bank for Jude before Real Madrid came sniffing.
Same question was posed of Matthaus in his mid-20s. He ended up being so good it didn't matter that it wasn't his natural game to play-make from the middle.He will only become one of the very best centre midfielders if he can learn to dictate play and control the game ala Xavi, Pirlo, Modric, Scholes. That is what separates the mentioned players from the likes of Gerrard, Lampard etc.
Liverpool might have landed him had they made the CL, fact of the matter is though if Madrid or Barca call most players are picking them no matter their nationality.Honestly, how have Chelsea, United, Liverpool, City and Arsenal allowed the best English midfield prospect go to Madrid unchallenged? It's not like they are reigning European champions either.
Wouldn't have mattered. He makes at least as much as Salah gets. Liverpool's owners are not paying two Salah wages.Liverpool might have landed him had they made the CL, fact of the matter is though if Madrid or Barca call most players are picking them no matter their nationality.
Gave me a good chuckle, that.Honestly, how have Chelsea, United, Liverpool, City and Arsenal allowed the best English midfield prospect go to Madrid unchallenged?
That's trueCity are a truly great team and De Bruyne isn’t a playmaker like Xavi Modric or Kroos he is a final third player.
De Bruyne is a good call. Kaká had his prime in a different era, IMO, because Guardiola and Klopp started a rapid tactical revolution. So maybe it would be more correct to speak of truly great teams in the last 15 years.The initial reference mentioned stats, not just goals and while Jude is getting attention right now for his goal scoring, he is also capable of assisting.
No love for Kaka or DeBruyne? They both put up pretty good numbers in CL winning teams. Or do those teams not count as truly great in your view?
Lampard simply wasn't as good or technically gifted as them, no matter how many stats he racked up or how many penalties he took. It seems like this assessment of Jude's ceiling speaks more to stylistic preferences than it does to quality of the player. I would not call Yaya Toure a midfield controller, but he too found great success and put up high scoring stats, though he was not at the level of the Xavi and Modric's of the world.
Genuine question, because I have not watched him enough: would you class Florian Wirtz as a "controller" type midfielder? From what I gather, he has similar potential without necessarily filling that mould because has some of the risk-seeking qualities helpful for breaking down low blocks.
Real more or less is THE biggest club in the world and Bellingham is unusually open to moving abroad for an English player, as he already proved by moving to Dortmund.Honestly, how have Chelsea, United, Liverpool, City and Arsenal allowed the best English midfield prospect go to Madrid unchallenged? It's not like they are reigning European champions either.
May be they did, but the pull to play for Real Madrid is huge.Honestly, how have Chelsea, United, Liverpool, City and Arsenal allowed the best English midfield prospect go to Madrid unchallenged? It's not like they are reigning European champions either.
Good point. Had he been playing in England, I think he may have gone to the big PL sides. But as he's been away, the decision was probably made easier.Real more or less is THE biggest club in the world and Bellingham is unusually open to moving abroad for an English player, as he already proved by moving to Dortmund.
If Greenwood ever has a way back, he could benefit from this suspension.I read somewhere that he's wearing strapping on his knees when he plays because of the injury he had. A lot of these newer generation young players (Pedri, Saka etc) have had a lot of minutes in their legs, due to covid giving no summer break, the delayed Euros, and the crap Nations League and very few of them ever get rested. I worry that a lot of these will pick up injuries like Pedri and Fati, it's not natural to play so much with so little break.
Neither are Chelsea, United, Liverpool and Arsenal.Honestly, how have Chelsea, United, Liverpool, City and Arsenal allowed the best English midfield prospect go to Madrid unchallenged? It's not like they are reigning European champions either.
Yes but he's English. We don't fantasise about Real Madrid the same way everyone else does.Neither are Chelsea, United, Liverpool and Arsenal.
He doesn't need to learn that at all, he's a different type of player. More Zidane than any of those.He will only become one of the very best centre midfielders if he can learn to dictate play and control the game ala Xavi, Pirlo, Modric, Scholes. That is what separates the mentioned players from the likes of Gerrard, Lampard etc.
Was it unchallenged? Liverpool wanted him and he rejected City, United tried for him years ago and he rejected them.Honestly, how have Chelsea, United, Liverpool, City and Arsenal allowed the best English midfield prospect go to Madrid unchallenged? It's not like they are reigning European champions either.
You don’t? It’s the most acclaimed club in the world with a fantastic fanbase and a city nicer than any English one. I think majority of top English players would choose Real over Arsenal, Chelsea, Pool or us. Perhaps City comes close with guaranteed trophies, military grade dope, Pep and payments under the table, but otherwise you’d have to be a fool to go to Arsenal instead of Real if you were a player as talented as Jude.Yes but he's English. We don't fantasise about Real Madrid the same way everyone else does.
Nope. I get that they're the biggest club in the world but I don't think if given the chance, I would choose Madrid or Barcelona, Bayern or Milan for that matter over United, Chelsea, Liverpool or Arsenal.You don’t? It’s the most acclaimed club in the world with a fantastic fanbase and a city nicer than any English one. I think majority of top English players would choose Real over Arsenal, Chelsea, Pool or us. Perhaps City comes close with guaranteed trophies, military grade dope, Pep and payments under the table, but otherwise you’d have to be a fool to go to Arsenal instead of Real if you were a player as talented as Jude.
Maybe they fantasised less than everyone else do but that did not stop McManaman, Owen, Beckham, Woodgate, Bale (he's Welsh I know) or Bellingham himself from going there.Yes but he's English. We don't fantasise about Real Madrid the same way everyone else does.
A) Man United can't get players like that anymoreShould not have signed Sancho and break the bank for Jude before Real Madrid came sniffing.
Fair enough but I don’t know if you can speak for all English players. If I were a lad as talented as Jude, from a purely sporting perspective I don’t think I’d choose any English club other than City over Madrid, unless I was a lifelong fan of one. Relatively less pressure (it’s immense still, but nothing tops the pressure that’s on a young English superstar playing for a top English team that payed 100m for him and if you’re not white it’s probably even worse), trophies more guaranteed, level of football as high, quality of life arguably much higher. For me he’s a smart lad for turning down Liverpool in decline and leaving England early has been an excellent choice for his development.Nope. I get that they're the biggest club in the world but I don't think if given the chance, I would choose Madrid or Barcelona, Bayern or Milan for that matter over United, Chelsea, Liverpool or Arsenal.
This point is pretty silly considering he plays for a club whose fans famously turn on a dime.A) Man United can't get players like that anymore
B) The club's current toxicity can destroy literally any player. I'm sure they'd be able to make Zico look average.
C) It's better for him to play in another country, far away from the build 'em up and slap 'em down English media.