Cost aside, I would love to be completely wrong but if a player has no definite position, makes both of your wingers worse by just being picked and doesn't even looks like he's trying to impact the game, then i don't know what the point is. KdB's injury is a small lifeline that will go to waste if we keep tinkering.
Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
£331,000 per week wart.
Agree completely but we’ve all had managers that stick with their expensive “projects” for way too long, to the detriment of the team.
If arteta realises this quickly he’ll go up in my estimation.
Unless of course he’s actually a genius and Havertz turns into a world beater.
Is Gabriel leaving?
Seems odd he's disrupted the backline by benching him for first games and moving White away from RB as that was a very solid defence until Saliba got injured.
They also need Partey back in midfield full time.
Seems odd he's disrupted the backline by benching him for first games and moving White away from RB as that was a very solid defence until Saliba got injured.
They also need Partey back in midfield full time.
Starting to think there's something to the Saudi rumours. If Arteta is happy moving Partey from midfield to RB surely Gabriel into LB is a smaller change? Especially as he essentially played as LB last season in possession (with Zinny moving into midfield). I find it hard to believe Kiwior would be better than him at the moment.
Very worrying if true as we have certainly looked less secure defensively without him in the team. Though, reason for today's disappointing result was really Saka's terrible error.
Mount is also much better off the ball and has certain attributes suited to being a midfielder.
Not sure what Arteta is upto. He’s spent far too much on a luxury player who doesn’t add anything substantial, and is also messing with one of their best partnerships from last season - White - Saka.
Havertz played as an attacking midfielder for Leverkusen and also for the German national team. So can definitely see Arteta's thought process.
IMO his off the ball/defensive work in the first two games wasn't bad at all - against both Forrest and Palace he won the most duels for us and also covered the most ground (even more than Rice). So as a midfielder he has been OK, but going forward hasn't shown enough. Our game plan v Fulham flew out the window after Saka's horror error but we definitely had our chances and Havertz probably should have had a goal.
Of course though the question really is is it worth sacrificing Partey (out of position) and Gabriel (not in the team) to fit Havertz in. And I think the answer to that is definitely no at this stage. Certainly against United I want Gabi-Saliba partnership and Rice-Partey-Odegaard in MF. Think Nketiah needs to play up front, Havertz on the bench.
For me it's the performance rather than the result. Sometimes you have shit days at the office and players who would never normally misplace passes, misplace a couple of important ones. That's whatever, it happens. But the failure/refusal to kill the game off once we take the lead, that's a long-standing problem. We need to be way more ruthless if we want to get close to City. For me the gap is currently much bigger than it appeared to be at times last season. We're in a fairly even shooting match for places 2-5 in the table. That's about as far as it goes unless we suddenly iron out long-standing flaws in-season - yes there are others too, like being way too vulnerable to quick transitions even with the tolerance level for that you have to build-in with being a team that plays a high line.
True, but not in the role he's been bought for by you lot. Mount's hands down best performances for us were in Tuchel's 3-4-3 as one of the front three.
Mount did play as an attacking number 8 for us under Lampard but the other '8' next to him was always a player like Kante or Kovacic and not one nearly as attacking-minded as Bruno is. Then again our DM was Jorginho who was much worse defensively as Casemiro but still, having Mount and Bruno as your two most advanced midfielders was always going to be tricky to balance out. Hats off to ETH if he can pull it off and getting it to work eventually but early signs aren't all that great.
Looking at the positions Xhaka was taking up last season, Havertz isnt a bad signing imo. Pushing up and taking up the CBs to allow Martinelli/Jesus to roam about while keeping the game ticking over with smart plays.
Like Mount, he needs time to figure out his new role, especially combining with Martinelli to create openings on the left channel. Zinchenko coming back should help them out with the passing from midfield on that side of the pitch, Viera and him completely transformed the game for Arsenal. Well timed subs from Arteta.
Like Mount, he needs time to figure out his new role, especially combining with Martinelli to create openings on the left channel. Zinchenko coming back should help them out with the passing from midfield on that side of the pitch, Viera and him completely transformed the game for Arsenal. Well timed subs from Arteta.
Understandable. For supposed title challengers to City, dropping points this early to this type of team is a big deal. Even a record first half from you last season was just a minor annoyance for City. Drop points next week and your title prospects look very bleak less than 5 games into the season.
I agree he's been a bit of a scapegoat but hasn't been bad. Just not as impressive as Rice and Timber (for all of 45min). Do think there's real potential in what Arteta is trying to do with him and being able to use him as LCM or forward will come in useful.
Also agree re Zinchenko - Havertz has had to play with Tomi and Kiwior who aren't great going forward. Now that Zinny is back and if Havertz keeps his place, I do expect to see more from him as Zinny can progress the ball in ways the others can't.
Not what I expected from Arsenal or arteta... guessing top4 might be doable for us just by virtue of the way some London teams are (not)performing.
By “early signs” you mean a grand total of two games? 50% as much data as the evidence that Caicedo makes Chelsea a worse team and a tiny fraction of the evidence that Mudryk is fecking useless.
Anyway. My point stands. Mount has proven himself as a competent PL footballer. Havertz has not.
Mount has actually been fine in the 2 games he's played for us. Excellent off the ball, some progress on the ball will be needed but will come when he's on the same wavelength as the others (and when we actually have a functional frontline), but he's absolutely not a problem.
I'm under the impression Mount also looked like an awkward fit in pre-season too, for what it's worth.
And no, I'm not basing that opinion on those two games or the poor pre-season. I'm 99% basing it on the role he's clearly been bought to play for you lot and the fact I've watched Mount play football for 200+ games and don't think he's all too well suited for that. So like I said, credit to ETH if he can eventually pull off having Mount and Bruno in the same midfield together because to the best of my (admittedly limited) footballing knowledge I just don't see how a midfield with those two in it simultaneously can be balanced enough.
It's possible, maybe even likely, that Mount will grow into his new role because I think he's a great footballer but it's also possible he'll struggle with having to play a role he's not experienced in. What I don't get is why ETH wouldn't just sign a player who's already comfortable with the demands of that role to begin with? Just of the top of my head Mac Allister would have been a better fit and I think you could have pulled Kovacic too if you'd promised him a starter role rather than the rotation role he has at City. In isolation I rate Mount higher than both of those two but to fill a midfield that already has Casemiro and Bruno in it I think either of them be better fits than Mount.
Chelsea must be laughing their ass off, they sold two duds to united and arsenal who have made both teams look worse when they play and they pocketed 120 million
I think its a given that given Utd and Arsenal are playing Mount and Havertz in a role that either they are not overly familiar with or will have to re-learn, or at the very least get used to their new clubs playing style and systems, that perhaps it should be a good few months from now we are judging these players.
From an Arsenal perspective, given how crucial Zinchenko and Jesus was to our build up on the left side last season, I think I'll wait until I see Havertz playing in a team with both of those mentioned before judging him too harshly.
I think Havertz has become the scapegoat of this reorganization Arteta had done, which I don't think he actually needed to do. I'm not a fan of the dropping of Gabriel and to invert from the right back position through Partey, so want to see if he continues to persist with it now Zinchenko is nearing full fitness. To me it all seems a bit too forced, trying to fit all of Rice, Partey and Havertz in from the off, when it should be a more natural evolution of moving away from Partey as the season went on.
I completely agree with this. My heart says that Mount will eventually find himself and our midfield will be something akin to City’s Silva-Fernandinho-KdB midfield in 2017-18, but my head says that it’s just never going to work and we’ve either consigned ourselves to another 5 years of having an unbalanced midfield and away slaughterings by the best teams in the league, or having to spend £100m to fix the midfield in the next couple of summers.
Back to Arteta though, his team currently looks as unbalanced as ours. I’m hoping to see Havertz starting and Partey at RB, and Zinchenko and Gabriel on the bench again next week. I reckon that’ll give us multiple opportunities to hurt them.
Arsenal won't win anything with Ramsdale in net, he can do all the candid interviews he wants, but until he stops looking for trouble on the pitch he'll never be a good keeper.
Also, Chelsea fecking fleeced us and Arsenal this summer. Someone should go to prison.
Also, Chelsea fecking fleeced us and Arsenal this summer. Someone should go to prison.
Kai havertz will be good if you want to build a team around him and every thing to his strength. He can't fit in many systems and mostly laboured in many positions.
Arsenal players are very good with ball which havertz lacked. That's his main problem. Under slightest of pressure he mostly lose possession or rushed judgement and misplacing simple passes.
That's what we witnessed when he played for chelsea. May be arteta improve him and make him very good. But I doubt it.
Think he'll keep the same formation as well and see how the game plays out, with Nketiah probably in for Trossard. Hope he goes back to the formation we played last season but he's stubborn.
You just can't comprehend the genius of the man...
(Please get Gabriel back in and Partey in midfield)
I think when he said that sometimes he takes the back door, he meant something else.You just can't comprehend the genius of the man...
(Please get Gabriel back in and Partey in midfield)
"43 different structures in different phases of play" - it's a miracle if any of his players have a clue what they're supposed to be doing.
‘‘If Bukayo (Saka) is not there we're going to have something else.’’
Overplay him until that happens. Then shit the bed when it does.
Overplay him until that happens. Then shit the bed when it does.
This fecking guy.
As Man Utd fan, I should hate Pep and Klopp more because of the rivalry. Not sure why, I can't stand this cnut. Zero sportsmanship and complain about every referee decisions. Referees should give him yellow or red card for constant complain on the sideline.
He need a slap
Leading by example. Are you watching Erik?
At the very least they should start booking him every time he leaves the technical area.
And funnily he is not even as good as Pep or Klopp. Not even close to them. Absolute childish behavior.
How does he get away with this
Spot on.
I didn't think anything could make me detest the Gooners any more.
But arteta has certainly done that.
As you say, childish behaviour. But of course the Gooner fans will absolutely love it.
Shaw/Bissaka/Reguilon/Rashford, whoever is playing wide the day we play them at Old Trafford can make themselves a club legend if they shoulder that cnut down the Old Trafford embankment if he tries that.
I'd love if it Case was chasing a ball and shouldered this cnut straight into the stands.
Arteta live in the sky sports studio:
Arteta live in the sky sports studio:
I enjoy Arteta being upset more than I shouldHe's completely right. People will laugh and criticise him for being so emotional but the referees are a complete joke in England and something needs to be done.