Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

[Nytram Shakes]

It’s because we expect managers to somehow be scouts and know everyone in world football. It’s not their jobs.

I’m sure we have scouts who could have told ETH Pedro Neto fits our team.

Well that’s back to the same debate we have basically been having since Fergie left, we need a proper director of football and recruitment team who know what there doing. The answer to that has always been yes.

Yes Ten Hag has to take part of the blame for clearly been heavily involved in spending nearly 400 million and the squad still being not much less than of mess than when he took over.

But I agree with you he should never have been in position where he needs to or is allowed to have such a heavy impact on recruitment

 

[Red_Aaron]

ETH has spoken about the state of the existing culture within the squad when he arrived and he's clearly set about changing that over and above anything else

I completely understand why he brought in Antony and Licha last season and Onana and Amrabat this season as trusted parties he's worked with before that he knows will follow his rules and set a baseline in training. He also removed maguire from the team and captaincy and has been decisive in the Ronaldo and Sancho situations. We can argue about their quality of his ex players but I don't necessarily disagree with his approach here as he needed to establish his way and get a foothold in the squad as quickly as possible.

However, despite stating on numerous occasions that he is focused on improving the players already here, so far perhaps only lindelof and AWB have shown anything like an upswing in sustained form (and neither are guaranteed starters). He has also failed to establish a style of play and an approach which works for these players and in which they are comfortable and well drilled. We are also laughably fragile, the moment something goes wrong we crumble

This is now his biggest issue, I think the managerial side has been done well last season and I think he has managed to establish his authority at least but if the results don't flow players will quickly lose faith and suddenly even his trusted generals are vulnerable to the malaise - squads regularly see off managers in this day and age and it gives them an easy out from buckling down. I'm not sure the issue is effort yet however I can see the fragility and the lack of confidence is palpable, right now these players don't believe and they're not enjoying it.

The man utd job is fckin hard, even when it's going well. I'm still on his side but he's got to start improving us soon because things can quickly get out of control here

 

[DickDastardly]

Ok, seeing by the replies, looks like most of you lost faith in Ten Hag.

That either means I'm being too weak and haven't been seeing things clearly enough, or you're all reacting a bit hasty.

I could be wrong, don't have a problem with that.

For those of you who truly lost faith and see no other way out for him, do we sack him now or do you give him until the end of the season?

 

[Matt851]

Well that’s back to the same debate we have basically been having since Fergie left, we need a proper director of football and recruitment team who know what there doing. The answer to that has always been yes.

Yes Ten Hag has to take part of the blame for clearly been heavily involved in spending nearly 400 million and the squad still being not much less than of mess than when he took over.

But I agree with you he should never have been in position where he needs to or is allowed to have such a heavy impact on recruitment

Wonder how much truth there is in eth insisting on a significant amount of control over transfers ? He wouldn't be the first coach to significantly overestimate their abilities in identifying players. The preference for working with players he already knows does limit the pool significantly

 

[Woodzy]

Losing faith. Previous managers have been slaughtered for such form and there’s no reason he should get a pass just because of a promising first season.

Still, I don’t think there’s any point in sacking a manager any more until this club has new owners.

 

[kafta]

He needs to make some decisions about this starting line up. Some of the favorites should lose their preferential treatment, and be held to the same standard as everyone else.

The problems at this club start way above the manager, but right now Erik needs to at least do his part. We don't look well coached, and we don't look like we're putting in the effort to outwork teams. Those both start and end with the manager. And right now, its looking like it was the wrong decision to splurge 45 million of our limited transfer budget on a keeper too.

 

[Rednotdead]

ETH has spoken about the state of the existing culture within the squad when he arrived and he's clearly set about changing that over and above anything else

I completely understand why he brought in Antony and Licha last season and Onana and Amrabat this season as trusted parties he's worked with before that he knows will follow his rules and set a baseline in training. He also removed maguire from the team and captaincy and has been decisive in the Ronaldo and Sancho situations. We can argue about their quality of his ex players but I don't necessarily disagree with his approach here as he needed to establish his way and get a foothold in the squad as quickly as possible.

However, despite stating on numerous occasions that he is focused on improving the players already here, so far perhaps only lindelof and AWB have shown anything like an upswing in sustained form (and neither are guaranteed starters). He has also failed to establish a style of play and an approach which works for these players and in which they are comfortable and well drilled. We are also laughably fragile, the moment something goes wrong we crumble

This is now his biggest issue, I think the managerial side has been done well last season and I think he has managed to establish his authority at least but if the results don't flow players will quickly lose faith and suddenly even his trusted generals are vulnerable to the malaise - squads regularly see off managers in this day and age and it gives them an easy out from buckling down. I'm not sure the issue is effort yet however I can see the fragility and the lack of confidence is palpable, right now these players don't believe and they're not enjoying it.

The man utd job is fckin hard, even when it's going well. I'm still on his side but he's got to start improving us soon because things can quickly get out of control here

He’s had over a year to change the culture. It’s no longer an excuse.

 

[redshaw]

I’m not entirely sure the players want to play and fight for him.

is there something else behind the scenes, because I’m seeing no motivation at all in the players?

Luke Shaw alluded to it last season after the league cup win and it's continued from there. I saw the motivation dissipate as well, I think it's more down to the manager losing respect of the players with his selections and methods. This Sancho saga is perhaps the latest problem as it upsets Rashford as well.

Said when the Sancho issue broke a better way to handle it was to play the game a little and keep him and other players onside until he is sold. Some of us noticed Sancho looked fitter in his earlier appearances this season, now that might not have been enough still but he was trying to get back, let him carry on and sell or see how he does, let him be a useful option then get a good price. With Antony's issues it was a good time to give Sancho and run of games.

The team in midweek had a good attitude, created chances freely and had the crowd buzzing with them playing for each other, it was a refreshing performance. ETH has to use the squad more, play Hannibal and others.

Another issue is some of the senior players are stuck playing a certain way. I expected the coach to manage them better, give them more instructions during the game to vary the play and reign in the nonsense of them losing the ball and running into players over and over.

 

[Bobcat]

Feck. I really, really thought he was the one who was going to bring us back to where we belong, but now i've lost all hope.

I dont know which it is, poor motivator? Poor tactician? Poor coach? All of the above? Its not just the reuslts, its the fact we play like absoloute shite and we barely create chances let alone score. Say what you want about Ole (who ultimately was not good enough) but at least he had us scoring some goals. If we had been super solid in defense that would be one thing, but we are not even doing that right.

Unless he manages to turn it around in the next few games then i'd like us to bring in a caretaker and then start the process of finding and hiring and new manager and prep him for the next season.

 

[crossy1686]

You're being pretty inconsistent now, Poch implementing a style that his players can't play well yet is exactly the situation we're in this season under ETH. Wolves seem to be playing mostly counter attacking football, which they were playing before, so not exactly a huge revolution.

Ange is a reasonable point, although it remains to be seen how much of this is a new manager bounce. If he equals or betters Ten Hag's season last season, and then again beats his season this season, then you'll have a good example.

Except we don’t have anything that looks like a style and people on here keep saying he needs more money and time to do it but all the evidence suggests it’s possible in a short amount of time if the players buy in.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Good summary. Of course ETH will suffer from our poor structure but he has made way too many mistakes himself. Ironically the poor structure will secure his job for maybe the whole season.

The poor structure has allowed him to make those mistakes. He should not have been in a position to make them in the first place. Why would you allow a manager with lets say such a narrow experience outside Holland act like a DOF.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Luke Shaw alluded to it last season after the league cup win and it's continued from there. I saw the motivation dissipate as well, I think it's more down to the manager losing respect of the players with his selections and methods. This Sancho saga is perhaps the latest problem as it upsets Rashford as well.

Said when the Sancho issue broke a better way to handle it was to play the game a little and keep him and other players onside until he is sold. Some of us noticed Sancho looked fitter in his earlier appearances this season, now that might not have been enough still but he was trying to get back, let him carry on and sell or see how he does, let him be a useful option then get a good price. With Antony's issues it was a good time to give Sancho and run of games.

The team in midweek had a good attitude, created chances freely and had the crowd buzzing with them playing for each other, it was a refreshing performance. ETH has to use the squad more, play Hannibal and others.

Another issue is some of the senior players are stuck playing a certain way. I expected the coach to manage them better, give them more instructions during the game to vary the play and reign in the nonsense of them losing the ball and running into players over and over.

Who the hell is going to get this lots respect. The players have to earn the managers respect as well and some of them do not have the CV to do that yet think they are world beaters.

 

[Speako]

How's the crowd reacting at the moment, I read there were boos? Lose to Galatasaray and they'll turn as we'll be on the way out the CL early as possible

Got behind them for most of the game, but there was nothing - and I mean nothing - to get us excited or give us any encouragement. Slow, tumescent performance lacking any intelligence or belief. Maguire smacking the ball against his own player and into touch with the last kick of the game summed it all up. Boos from all around the ground at full time and they all got stick walking off the pitch, while we all got saturated walking home! I didn’t even raise a smile when heard the City result.

I remember September/october 1989 and it felt very similar.

Frustration is definitely building. I’m obviously hoping for a change in fortunes once all players are back, but ETH took too long to make changes yesterday (formation and bringing on Garnacho at HT for starters). So it’s worrying.

 

[crossy1686]

How's the crowd reacting at the moment, I read there were boos? Lose to Galatasaray and they'll turn as we'll be on the way out the CL early as possible

Big boos after the final whistle, will only get worse if the results don’t improve

 

[DRJosh]

I think we should stop individualising our problems. We are rotten to the core with no structure and strategic foresight. Nothing will change until we change our structure from top to bottom. I'm willing to bet Pep will fail miserably here too because we have a mishmash of players who won't make the first team squad of any Top 6 side in the premier league

 

[Jeffthered]

This.

We also seem to start off well for the first 20 minutes of every game. The opposition manager would re-adjust then we do nothing different or anything effective to counter those changes. Then we'll let a goal in (from a setplay or a counterattack) and then it's game over.
We used to be the team that got the most points in the league after going a goal down. I bet we have the worst points gain after going a goal down for any team in the top 8 in the league now.

Also, it seems like he isn't trying to extract the most out of the players he has -- like where was Bruno in that game? Shunted to some corner of the pitch where he wasn't effective or influential at all. Or not creating a system where it can exploit Rashford's strength but instead having everyone circulate in cul-de-sacs.

We are trying to walk the ball into the net. So teams just sit back.

It's because teams know we carry a limited threat. Our attacking play is dysfinctional, sputtering and lacks any real detail. And I don't think ETH is able to address that. Sadly, that is my conclusion after a year.. he seems to be struggling to pull a team together. I support him, and do not want to see him replaced, but I do think he may, may have some limitations as a manager. His recruitment is a little odd, and seems restricted (going back to previous players so readily... ) and he doesn't seem to know how he wants the team to create goals. It seems it's just some passing and hope that 'someone, somewhere spots an opening...' and we can take advantage of that.

Some games we start quickly, some we start slowly.. but there's no rhythm, nothing to play towards, consistently. The players pick this up. It's all fragmented, and ETH just has that look on his face, because he notes all this.

It's tough for him, but he needs to fix it.

 

[Appletonred]

Only 3 months ago he was the best thing to happen to the club since Ferguson stepped down, let's not be fickle, having said that, his signings bar one or two have been questionable and his game management underwhelming, hopefully though a change in ownership soon enough breathes new life and enthusiasm into the club, it simply cannot carry on like this.

 

[crossy1686]

I think we should stop individualising our problems. We are rotten to the core with no structure and strategic foresight. Nothing will change until we change our structure from top to bottom. I'm willing to bet Pep will fail miserably here too because we have a mishmash of players who won't make the first team squad of any Top 6 side in the premier league

Keep seeing this and it’s just apathetic bullshit. We can beat Palace with the Glazers as owners, we can play coherent and organised football with the Glazers as owners, we can win games and trophies with the Glazers as owners, it literally happened last season. We’re not going to challenge city for the league but we can win games without completely ripping out the entire structure of the football club.

 

[crossy1686]

Only 3 months ago he was the best thing to happen to the club since Ferguson stepped down, let's not be fickle, having said that, his signings bar one or two have been questionable and his game management underwhelming, hopefully though a change in ownership soon enough breathes new life and enthusiasm into the club, it simply cannot carry on like this.

Absolutely no one was saying that

 

[GreatDane]

Luke Shaw alluded to it last season after the league cup win and it's continued from there. I saw the motivation dissipate as well, I think it's more down to the manager losing respect of the players with his selections and methods. This Sancho saga is perhaps the latest problem as it upsets Rashford as well.

Said when the Sancho issue broke a better way to handle it was to play the game a little and keep him and other players onside until he is sold. Some of us noticed Sancho looked fitter in his earlier appearances this season, now that might not have been enough still but he was trying to get back, let him carry on and sell or see how he does, let him be a useful option then get a good price. With Antony's issues it was a good time to give Sancho and run of games.

The team in midweek had a good attitude, created chances freely and had the crowd buzzing with them playing for each other, it was a refreshing performance. ETH has to use the squad more, play Hannibal and others.

Another issue is some of the senior players are stuck playing a certain way. I expected the coach to manage them better, give them more instructions during the game to vary the play and reign in the nonsense of them losing the ball and running into players over and over.

I think I missed that, got a link or quote?

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

I hate to be a conspiracy theorist but something smells wrong with Malacia. There were no indications of what exactly his injury is, how long he is expected to miss and given how cryptic ETH is with injury information, it wouldn't surprise me if Malacia broke a leg riding a motorcycle or doing something stupid that could get his contract voided for negligence.

 

[Jev]

Only 3 months ago he was the best thing to happen to the club since Ferguson stepped down, let's not be fickle, having said that, his signings bar one or two have been questionable and his game management underwhelming, hopefully though a change in ownership soon enough breathes new life and enthusiasm into the club, it simply cannot carry on like this.

His first season was way overhyped. We scored 58 goals, one more than in the disastrous season before. We won 13 games with a one-goal margin and were fortunate to get more points than our football merited. Barring a couple of promising months from October until the World Cup there was little progress in the quality of our football, which was no better than under Ole. Plus, ETH spent a fortune without improving the squad much.

 

[crossy1686]

It’s amazing that no matter who is in charge of this club, no matter how many billions we let them spend we still end up with what feels like a rotten squad going nowhere.

I think Ten Hag was a good appointment, but just can’t see him making it to the end of the season

Because we keep letting managers have the option of replacing the entire team instead of working with what we have.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

It’s amazing that no matter who is in charge of this club, no matter how many billions we let them spend we still end up with what feels like a rotten squad going nowhere.

I think Ten Hag was a good appointment, but just can’t see him making it to the end of the season

The problem is not managers, it’s how the club is run. It really is that simple.

We are setup to fail. Every manager is setup to fail. United is run by chancers who haven’t a clue what to do and have spent a decade pissing away our financial advantage that’s no longer the case. The tides gone out and we aren’t wearing any trunks.

 

[Resonance]

I still think he'll turn it around, top 4 is going to be a big challenge now. However, I'm convinced we'll actually start scoring goals soon.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Keep seeing this and it’s just apathetic bullshit. We can beat Palace with the Glazers as owners, we can play coherent and organised football with the Glazers as owners, we can win games and trophies with the Glazers as owners, it literally happened last season. We’re not going to challenge city for the league but we can win games without completely ripping out the entire structure of the football club.

If beating palace is your ambition, im sure a replacement manager will get the usual bounce and win our next league game against them, until the inevitable collapse in form.

Why are you against a complete overhaul of the football infrastructure? Do you honestly think Uniteds major problem the last 10 years has simply been picking the right manager? If so, good luck to you…

 

[Jeffthered]

ETH has spoken about the state of the existing culture within the squad when he arrived and he's clearly set about changing that over and above anything else

I completely understand why he brought in Antony and Licha last season and Onana and Amrabat this season as trusted parties he's worked with before that he knows will follow his rules and set a baseline in training. He also removed maguire from the team and captaincy and has been decisive in the Ronaldo and Sancho situations. We can argue about their quality of his ex players but I don't necessarily disagree with his approach here as he needed to establish his way and get a foothold in the squad as quickly as possible.

However, despite stating on numerous occasions that he is focused on improving the players already here, so far perhaps only lindelof and AWB have shown anything like an upswing in sustained form (and neither are guaranteed starters). He has also failed to establish a style of play and an approach which works for these players and in which they are comfortable and well drilled. We are also laughably fragile, the moment something goes wrong we crumble

This is now his biggest issue, I think the managerial side has been done well last season and I think he has managed to establish his authority at least but if the results don't flow players will quickly lose faith and suddenly even his trusted generals are vulnerable to the malaise - squads regularly see off managers in this day and age and it gives them an easy out from buckling down. I'm not sure the issue is effort yet however I can see the fragility and the lack of confidence is palpable, right now these players don't believe and they're not enjoying it.

The man utd job is fckin hard, even when it's going well. I'm still on his side but he's got to start improving us soon because things can quickly get out of control here

These two statements in bold, are exactly the reason why I'm worried. The first re culture.. and yes, he had to change that, for sure, which we can all see, and I worrythat he may be making a little too much about that now. The culture now under his management, is quite clear. It's different, in a more professional way.

But as far as him getting in his former players in.. that's short-sighted and a sign of insecurity. You get the best players in that compliment the system to which you wish to play. Klopp and Pep would not even consider a player unless they were absolutely clear on how they were going to add to the team.

I am not sure whether ETH is able to do this, with this club.

 

[UpWithRivers]

All the talk about midfield and defense and Onana which is all true but his major fk up is our attack. We were 30+ goals off the top teams last year. He told us Weghorst would get goals. He bought Antony who cant create or score for sht. Then to fix it all he bought a 20 year old with 50 odd games on his resume. After 7 games we have the same goals as Palace and Forest on 7. The teams above us have 18.

Sure Rashford and Bruno are out of form but that's the problem. We have one player that creates the most of our goals and one player that scores most of them. Plus our strategy and just ability to make chances and score is Championship level. When you have players out of form you need someone else to step up. We used to have players out of form all the time. Rooney not score for a few games etc. But it was mitigated by all the other attackers stepping up. Its no coincidence Klopp rebuilt his attack first and spent millions doing it. Spurs dined out for years on being sht and relying on Kane to bail them out.

And I dont believe all this nonsense of its the boards fault. That Ten Haag wanted Kane but the board couldn't get him. Newcastle have managed to get a better attack than us. Liverpool have rebuilt their attack. Why cant we? Its fkn sht

 

[Catalandevil]

Our best two players are Rashford and Bruno. Both play better when our team defends in a low block and launches attacks with very direct and long balls. However, ETH's style of play is very different, and he has signed players that fit his style, but that don’t complement Rashford and Bruno's strengths.

With this summer’s signings, ETH has tried to go one step further implementing his style of play. However, what has happened is that Bruno and Rashford have gone backward and are not adapting to the new style.

It will not be easy for ETH to implement his style of play while integrating them. The club will be too scared to sell both of our best players, so either ETH finds a way, or he will not be here next year.

Sacking ETH or selling Bruno and Rashford will not solve our problems unless we hire a competent football director to start managing and planning our squad better.

 

[redshaw]

I think I missed that, got a link or quote?

 

[crossy1686]

If beating palace is your ambition, im sure a replacement manager will get the usual bounce and win our next league game against them, until the inevitable collapse in form.

Why are you against a complete overhaul of the football infrastructure? Do you honestly think Uniteds major problem the last 10 years has simply been picking the right manager? If so, good luck to you…

Who said I am against an overhaul? I’m just saying that we can literally win games without deleting the club and starting again and pretending that that’s what we need to do to beat teams like Palace is just plain stupid.

The manager isn’t working for whatever reason so replace him and maybe the next manager will. If he doesn’t then you replace him. At some point people need to be accountable for the jobs they’re not doing very well.

 

[Samid]

Talks today that they’re discussing a new long-term contract. Makes sense. Tie him up so he doesn’t walk away or get poached by Real/Bayern.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

All the talk about midfield and defense and Onana which is all true but his major fk up is our attack. We were 30+ goals off the top teams last year. He told us Weghorst would get goals. He bought Antony who cant create or score for sht. Then to fix it all he bought a 20 year old with 50 odd games on his resume. After 7 games we have the same goals as Palace and Forest on 7. The teams above us have 18.

Sure Rashford and Bruno are out of form but that's the problem. We have one player that creates the most of our goals and one player that scores most of them. Plus our strategy and just ability to make chances and score is Championship level. When you have players out of form you need someone else to step up. We used to have players out of form all the time. Rooney not score for a few games etc. But it was mitigated by all the other attackers stepping up. Its no coincidence Klopp rebuilt his attack first and spent millions doing it. Spurs dined out for years on being sht and relying on Kane to bail them out.

And I dont believe all this nonsense of its the boards fault. That Ten Haag wanted Kane but the board couldn't get him. Newcastle have managed to get a better attack than us. Liverpool have rebuilt their attack. Why cant we? Its fkn sht

Yes, ETH wanted Weghorst over every player in the world , not because it was the only player offered to him by the club who had no money!

The same club that offered Ighalo to another manager and keeps renewing Martials contracts. The same club that signed Fellaini, who was used as a desperate makeshift forward at times.

I agree, Our forward issues are definitely that our managers keep “wanting” low quality forwards and not because the club has no proper football infrastructure or long term squad plan.

 

[Matt851]

Talks today that they’re discussing a new long-term contract. Makes sense. Tie him up so he doesn’t walk away or get poached by Real/Bayern.

That is the United way

 

[sglowrider]

He needs to be braver in his team selection. The issues he's facing now have been slowly rumbling towards us for some time. I still think we're not that far away from clicking but he needs to be honest with what he's seeing and not rely on player status of reputation

It's United's worst start in 34years. He needs something for sure.

 

[spiriticon]

1. The change in structure isn't going to happen because the Glazers' are in charge.

2. The change in owners isn't going to happen because the Glazers' refuse to sell.

Once we have made peace with the above two statements, you quickly realise that a current Man United manager needs to work well despite the 2 points above. Wishing otherwise is wishful thinking, at least in the short term.

Ten Hag needs to show his adaptability more than ever. He cannot be rigid and stubborn right now. He must find a way, it's his job. It's a tough ask, but them's the apples.

 

[DRJosh]

Keep seeing this and it’s just apathetic bullshit. We can beat Palace with the Glazers as owners, we can play coherent and organised football with the Glazers as owners, we can win games and trophies with the Glazers as owners, it literally happened last season. We’re not going to challenge city for the league but we can win games without completely ripping out the entire structure of the football club.

I disagree. What we were good at in previous seasons is harnessing moments through individual skill/contributions to win us games. We've not played dominant cohesive football in years. What's the point in winning sporadically and scraping into continental qualification when we don't have a proper structure in place?

The League Cup game against Palace was probably the first time we showed some level of collective promise but even then, there was no guarantee consistency would follow and true enough we went back to our old ways.

There is a sense of resignation at the club from top to bottom, spurred on by continuous spending on the wrong players. There is zero duty of care from the club's board or owners. Giving ETH a blank cheque isn't the answer. The club needs to be gutted from the inside out for a proper restart.

 

[UpWithRivers]

Yes, ETH wanted Weghorst over every player in the world , not because it was the only player offered to him by the club who had no money!

The same club that offered Ighalo to another manager and keeps renewing Martials contracts. The same club that signed Fellaini, who was used as a desperate makeshift forward at times.

I agree, Our forward issues are definitely that our managers keep “wanting” low quality forwards and not because the club has no proper football infrastructure or long term squad plan.

My bad. Nothing to do with Ten Haag at all.

 

[sglowrider]

How's the crowd reacting at the moment, I read there were boos? Lose to Galatasaray and they'll turn as we'll be on the way out the CL early as possible

He lose to Gala it will be the team that will lose faith or trust in him first. A month later the fans

 

[crossy1686]

I disagree. What we were good at in previous seasons is harnessing moments through individual skill/contributions to win us games. We've not played dominant cohesive football in years. What's the point in winning sporadically and scraping into continental qualification when we don't have a proper structure in place?

The League Cup game against Palace was probably the first time we showed some level of collective promise but even then, there was no guarantee consistency would follow and true enough we went back to our old ways.

There is a sense of resignation at the club from top to bottom, spurred on by continuous spending on the wrong players. There is zero duty of care from the club's board or owners. Giving ETH a blank cheque isn't the answer. The club needs to be gutted from the inside out for a proper restart.

I’m not saying it doesn’t but we have won games in the past and we can win games currently without ripping everything up and starting again. For some reason we’re the only club that needs this to happen to win games of football against the likes of Palace. People talk like everything is the issue when the reality is, we’re not winning games because the manager is making a mess of the team. When the Glazers start taking training and picking the team then we can blame them for the results and performances.