Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

stevoc

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It’s as if there’s something special about the club which is going to turn struggling, mediocre managers into world class coaches if only they are given plenty of time. The single biggest issue I have with this notion is that it diminishes Ferguson’s achievements, implying they were not a result of his work, talent and character but were simply a result of the time being allowed to him, and any coach - including EtH or Moyes - will be able to get similar results if you do the same with them.
That's exactly what it does, there was someone in here last week or the week before implying just that. Ferguson wasn't that special on his own, United gave him the time and platform to become as good as he did. Completely ignoring the fact he was very successful before coming to United.
 

NLunited

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Guardiola adjusted for every single squad that he has had. His Barcelona, Bayern and the various versions of City squads all work differently. The only thing that they have in common is the 6 seconds rule, everything else is tailored to what his players are good at and to weaknesses that he needs to hide. The same is true for Klopp, Klopp went from an aggressive gegenpress with an extremely high line to heavy possession because it was the best way to maximize his players, he also went from having a preference for a single creative hub to creating a system where creation is shared which is a stark difference to his Dortmund days or the first year with Liverpool.

That's why in my opinion it's a very bad idea to compare ETH to actually elite managers because they all expose the issue with ETH. In spite of the fact that they all have a style attached to their name or a tactical setup, every single one of them has adapted quickly and heavily to their players, their only obsession is to maximize what they have. And we are talking about people that actually had success with their previous setups.
Umm no not at all. Pep replaced his players quickly and Klopp still plays the same style generally.

We have an injury riddled squad that isn‘t capable of playing any style convincingly at the moment. Except for plan Z (zombie football).
 

MadMike

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Actually the players he had inherited - mainly Maguire, McTominay, Bruno and Rashford (last season) - are the ones keeping him in the job.
Pretty much this. Along with the academy players in Garnacho and Mainoo.

The only player from the old guard who is not pulling his weight, is Rashford. Whereas none of his own signings have made any impact this season. They are either always injured (Martinez, Mount) or playing very poorly (Antony, Onana, Casemiro, Amrabat etc.). And the one player he ostracised (Sancho) is having a great half-season at BVB.

But yeah, it's somehow "the same players" who are costing him his job. :rolleyes:
 

NLunited

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If we were playing well but still getting the same results, I could understand the dilemma. But we’re not.

We’re playing horribly and actually getting worse despite having much less games to worry about. You’d think when we’re down to basically one game a week after the embarrassing way we got knocked out of Europe, they’d go back to the drawing board and work on stuff, but if anything the team look worse.

ETH has massively stagnated this year after spending millions and having more time with the squad. It’s been really worrying since that opening game against Wolves. That game raised massive red flags that should have been immediately addressed. The entire football environment saw how awful we were and commented on it, yet here we are in May and we’re still playing that same kamikaze way.

The whole injuries thing to me has gone past the point of bad luck, and moved into questioning the coaching now. The injuries are way too occurrent to be just bad luck.

He really isn’t doing himself any favours by persisting with this style of play, even with INEOS now hovering above, which makes me think he knows he‘s a goner but is doing it so he can say that we didn’t fully adapt to his ways.
You are right about the first game and that the issues have persisted all season. But what are the issues? Is it the strategy or is it the squad? Any other reasons?

I think the main reason why the problems have been here all season are that the squad can‘t perform Ten Hag‘s tactics consistently. Physically and mentally they cannot.

The other option for Ten Hag is to play way more conservative, and he has chosen not to do that except for a single game here and there.

The squad will need sorting out no matter who is the manager. The next manager will need to embrace the challenge like Hag did, not just come here for big paychecks and the prestige of the club.
 

crossy1686

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You can tell from these responses people are still desperately hoping for another Ferguson. Anything else is inconceivable. People can't imagine it's mostly a normal cycle in football. We've been badly run, mostly recruited poorly including the managers, we've had some ups and downs throughout these years. But people still have this idea that you find that one manager, the messiah, and you're set. And whenever bad results happen, it's obviously the players letting the manager down. It just can't be that the manager is doing a bad job because he did well once 5 years ago for another club. Same posters who say "he can't be a bad coach when he had a good last season" want Rashford kicked out of the club.
Exactly. What gets me is that the people these same posters who blame people like the Glazers, Murtough, Woodward, Judge etc, for running the club into the ground with their poor decision making seem to think they had a moment of total competence and clarity when they hired a man who was rejected by Tottenham and overlooked by Bayern (twice!). Nah, how could they possibly be wrong again? Out of all the consistently wrong decisions they made, this one was definitely correct...
 

crossy1686

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Actually the players he had inherited - mainly Maguire, McTominay, Bruno and Rashford (last season) - are the ones keeping him in the job.
Don't ruin the illusion that Ten Hag will definitely kick all of them out of the club next season if he stays on, even though he picks them every time they're fit regardless of form.
 

ArnSarn

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I believe ETH will do very good if he get enough support with a proper structure. I agree with this article here. Joining Dan Ashworth & Omar Berrada with IENOS will change the fortune for sure.
 

AndySmith1990

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You are right about the first game and that the issues have persisted all season. But what are the issues? Is it the strategy or is it the squad? Any other reasons?

I think the main reason why the problems have been here all season are that the squad can‘t perform Ten Hag‘s tactics consistently. Physically and mentally they cannot.
We have many international level players. Why would they be so incapable of following Ten Hag's instructions? Especially as he specifically chose to sign a number of players himself, which presumably meant he knew they were capable.

Whats so difficult to believe about the possibility that maybe, the instructions and coaching simply isn't good enough? Just as was the case with the past managers.

There's nothing special about Ten Hag that has put him on a level of coaching amongst the elite. If he had a CV comparable to the very best I could understand giving him the benefit of the doubt and just blaming everything on others. But he's just some Dutch manager who has won the Dutch league. But then so has Steve Mclaren. Would he be given the same patience as Ten Hag? If Steve mclaren were manager would we write off over a years worth of shite performances as the players being unable to follow his tactics? Or would we put it down to him not being good enough to manage a club the size of United?
 

JPRouve

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Umm no not at all. Pep replaced his players quickly and Klopp still plays the same style generally.

We have an injury riddled squad that isn‘t capable of playing any style convincingly at the moment. Except for plan Z (zombie football).
Not at all? So you are saying that Barcelona, Bayern and City have used the same systems and players have had the same roles? They use and exploit space the same way?
 

stevoc

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You are right about the first game and that the issues have persisted all season. But what are the issues? Is it the strategy or is it the squad? Any other reasons?

I think the main reason why the problems have been here all season are that the squad can‘t perform Ten Hag‘s tactics consistently. Physically and mentally they cannot.

The other option for Ten Hag is to play way more conservative
, and he has chosen not to do that except for a single game here and there.

The squad will need sorting out no matter who is the manager. The next manager will need to embrace the challenge like Hag did, not just come here for big paychecks and the prestige of the club.
No the players are executing his tactics but the main problem is his tactics make no sense. And no those aren't his only options.

You either commit to playing pressing football and push the defence up regardless of the pace of your centre backs (lots of teams play like this) or if you don't want to be vulnerable to pace in behind you play deeper and look to attack on the counter.

What Ten Hag is asking them to do is a strange mish mish of both giving us the worst of both worlds. And leaving a giant hole where our midfield should be that you could park the Titanic in.
 

Yakuza_devils

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Agreed

Let’s reset the poll to appease those who are foaming at the mouth for him to be sacked , so they can feel validated but still relentlessly spam the forum with bile and attack anybody who doesn’t share their exact sentiments for ETH where he’s responsible for everything that’s ever gone wrong in the world.

Its just what the forum has been missing

The irony :lol:
 

Big Ben Foster

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Definitely read this thread then :wenger:
His not wrong. His talking about a lot of people in this thread. Guess they are pissed off about that :lol:
Was thinking the same, especially when reading through the comments on his character following that tweet!

He’s absolutely nailed it :lol:
You all come in here with your smug drive-by insults and then wonder why posters refer to you as "cultists" :rolleyes:
 

JPRouve

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No the players are executing his tactics but the main problem is his tactics make no sense. And no those aren't his only options.

You either commit to playing pressing football and push the defence up regardless of the pace of your centre backs (lots of teams play like this) or if you don't want to be vulnerable to pace in behind you play deeper and look to attack on the counter.

What Ten Hag is asking them to do is a strange mish mish of both giving us the worst of both worlds. And leaving a giant hole where our midfield should be that you could park the Titanic in.
Exactly. The pace of CBs is a red herring, first because our CBs aren't actually slow and secondly because good teams don't rely on pace to counter fast breaks, they rely on offside traps, containment and pressing correctly the passer in order to force less than ideal passes. The only situation where your CBs should be involved in a foot race is if the players above them messed up(typically misplaced pass or botched pressing) or got beat way faster than normal while doing everything properly which are rare occurrences but happens to everyone.
 

crossy1686

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You all come in here with your smug drive-by insults and then wonder why posters refer to you as "cultists" :rolleyes:
It's the same every week. They were all distancing themselves from supporting Ten Hag when that 4th goal went in at Palace, now they're giving it large again because there's been no football for a week and daddy has spoken out against people giving him shit. They're on a wind up at this point, they're enjoying the attention. There's no way you can watch something you used to enjoy be torn to shreds every week and act like everything is fine.
 

sparx99

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Lindelof
Maguire
Shaw
Varane
Fernandes
Martial
Rashford
Dalot
McTominay
Wan Bissaka

That's the senior players left from Solskjaer's squad from 2 years ago. Where are you getting 16 from?
His signings that are members of the squad are

Altay
Onana
Malacia
Martinez
Evan’s
Casemiro
Eriksen
Amrabat
Mount
Antony
Hojlund

Personally, I wouldn’t include Amrabat as he’s on loan or Evan’s as he clearly wasn’t meant to be anything other than an emergency backup.

The promotion of Garnacho and Mainoo also isn’t usually credited to managers when we talk about them having their team. It’s more like a nice bonus.

Either way it’s actually more of the squad than I thought it was.
 

mythz

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I believe ETH will do very good if he get enough support with a proper structure. I agree with this article here. Joining Dan Ashworth & Omar Berrada with IENOS will change the fortune for sure.
No . We have zero identity after two years and £400m spend on his players.
 

Garethw

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[/QUOTE]
I believe ETH will do very good if he get enough support with a proper structure. I agree with this article here. Joining Dan Ashworth & Omar Berrada with IENOS will change the fortune for sure.
I just cannot understand this train of thought.

Is it the existing structure that is responsible for the abysmal tactics and squad management?

Will this new structure suddenly make ETH a competent in game manager?

ETH is a mid table manager at this level. He isn’t good enough at the fundamental basics required of a PL title winning manager. No structure will change that.

The structure may very well sort out the abysmal recruitment and training facilities, but the club will be ultimately hobbling itself if it sticks with such a limited first team coach.
 

Sarni

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I believe ETH will do very good if he get enough support with a proper structure. I agree with this article here. Joining Dan Ashworth & Omar Berrada with IENOS will change the fortune for sure.
Exactly. All the evidence from his time at United points to him being a great coach, possibly the best in the league, let down by players, structure, coaches and fans. If we give him time and support then he will show his true ability. If he still struggles next year then question have to be asked about Berrada and Ashworth not him. They should get a season to prove they are worthy of supporting Erik ten Hag, not more.
 

stevoc

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His signings that are members of the squad are

Altay
Onana
Malacia
Martinez
Evan’s
Casemiro
Eriksen
Amrabat
Mount
Antony
Hojlund

Personally, I wouldn’t include Amrabat as he’s on loan or Evan’s as he clearly wasn’t meant to be anything other than an emergency backup.

The promotion of Garnacho and Mainoo also isn’t usually credited to managers when we talk about them having their team. It’s more like a nice bonus.

Either way it’s actually more of the squad than I thought it was.
Fair enough mate.

But they are members of the current squad signed and promoted by Ten Hag.

So when people label the squad as awful, poor or appalling fair enough. But not only is that not a defence of Ten Hags failings on the pitch its just highlighting his failings off It. Because this is now very much his squad.
 

Sarni

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I just cannot understand this train of thought.

Is it the existing structure that is responsible for the abysmal tactics and squad management?

Will this new structure suddenly make ETH a competent in game manager?

ETH is a mid table manager at this level. He isn’t good enough at the fundamental basics required of a PL title winning manager. No structure will change that.

The structure may very well sort out the abysmal recruitment and training facilities, but the club will be ultimately hobbling itself if it sticks with such a limited first team coach.
Why can you not appreciate him? Why do you need him to deliver results or win games to be happy? Why can’t you just be thankful that we have Erik ten Hag willing to work for us and to manage our team?
 

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If he's still here this time next year, we will all be a lot happier, because the only way that happens is if he's turned things around quite massively.



He'll be gone in a few weeks.
 

Revan

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Exactly. All the evidence from his time at United points to him being a great coach, possibly the best in the league, let down by players, structure, coaches and fans. If we give him time and support then he will show his true ability. If he still struggles next year then question have to be asked about Berrada and Ashworth not him. They should get a season to prove they are worthy of supporting Erik ten Hag, not more.
In the name of Erik, the ten, the Hagen. Amen!
 

stevoc

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Exactly. The pace of CBs is a red herring, first because our CBs aren't actually slow and secondly because good teams don't rely on pace to counter fast breaks, they rely on offside traps, containment and pressing correctly the passer in order to force less than ideal passes. The only situation where your CBs should be involved in a foot race is if the players above them messed up(typically misplaced pass or botched pressing) or got beat way faster than normal while doing everything properly which are rare occurrences but happens to everyone.
Yep, so our defence sitting so deep makes no sense if he's trying to implement a system where the whole team presses up high.

It also contradicts his own reasoning for not changing tactics. He says he doesn't want to confuse the players by switching to plan B and then having to switch back to plan A once injured players return.

But surely this isn't plan A?

So either his plan is a system that likely won't work regardless of the personnel or he's already compromising his plan A. Neither is a good look.
 

gajender

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This bullish approach still makes me think he has been told he will get a year under the new structure
On the contrary his statements in his recent interviews are clear indications that he knows he is dead man walking .
 
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Poll result New

golden_blunder

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We asked Would you allow ETH to manage the cup final before parting ways?

This was a follow up question to the last poll. Stop banging on about it @Chumpsbechumps

44.9% of you would give allow him to manage the cup final

55.1% of you would prefer to have an interim/caretaker in place for the cup final

This poll is now closed. What would you like as the next poll?

I’m thinking:

Should ETH stay or be fired by INEOS?
1) yes I still believe that he’s the right man
2) I think we should see next season how he does under the new support structure
3) I’ve seen enough. Time to go
 

hobbers

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I don’t think you need option 1

If you don’t think he’s the right man you’d have to be a total fool to want option 2, so they’re the same thing.

Also change support structure to new bosses, because that’s all it is
 

NLunited

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No the players are executing his tactics but the main problem is his tactics make no sense. And no those aren't his only options.

You either commit to playing pressing football and push the defence up regardless of the pace of your centre backs (lots of teams play like this) or if you don't want to be vulnerable to pace in behind you play deeper and look to attack on the counter.

What Ten Hag is asking them to do is a strange mish mish of both giving us the worst of both worlds. And leaving a giant hole where our midfield should be that you could park the Titanic in.
I don‘t think they do what Ten Hag is asking them. They are asked to push up higher than they are and cover for each other.

That wasn‘t happening against Palace.
 

Chumpsbechumps

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We asked Would you allow ETH to manage the cup final before parting ways?

This was a follow up question to the last poll. Stop banging on about it @Chumpsbechumps

44.9% of you would give allow him to manage the cup final

55.1% of you would prefer to have an interim/caretaker in place for the cup final

This poll is now closed. What would you like as the next poll?

I’m thinking:

Should ETH stay or be fired by INEOS?
1) yes I still believe that he’s the right man
2) I think we should see next season how he does under the new support structure
3) I’ve seen enough. Time to go
What about

4) I’m not sure because it’s not clear how much the clubs issues excuse this season
 

Big Ben Foster

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We asked Would you allow ETH to manage the cup final before parting ways?

This was a follow up question to the last poll. Stop banging on about it @Chumpsbechumps

44.9% of you would give allow him to manage the cup final

55.1% of you would prefer to have an interim/caretaker in place for the cup final

This poll is now closed. What would you like as the next poll?

I’m thinking:

Should ETH stay or be fired by INEOS?
1) yes I still believe that he’s the right man
2) I think we should see next season how he does under the new support structure
3) I’ve seen enough. Time to go
How about something like this instead?

Will you support Manchester United next season if ETH is sacked?

1. Yes, I am a Manchester United supporter
2. No, I will follow ETH to his next club
 

VP89

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What about

4) I’m not sure because it’s not clear how much the clubs issues excuse this season
No, that's blasphemy. You have to say ten Hag is the root of all our problems or you're a deluded mug. Don't come out with that nonsense again, *******.