the_cliff
Full Member
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2013
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I think the US and Israel need to tread carefully with what they do here, if they really are going to take Gaza apart then it could set fire to the whole region.
I have no idea who you are talking about. Neither are smart, or are particularly good on foreign affairs, but Cruz has a beard.isnt rubio the super smart one with a beard and detestable views on things like abortion but good on foreign affairs? Or is that Cruz? I can never keep up!
Not sure, since the question is specifically about civilians (and takes destroying Hamas as a given).I think he's an idiot, but I read the Rubio thing as eradicating Hamas, not Gaza.
What he literally said was that Hamas should have thought of the consequences of their actions.What do you think the response, "Hamas should have thought of this", when told that "2 mil are trapped there", means?
Think it’s Cruz, the lawyer dude. I disagree and think he’s a smart bloke.I have no idea who you are talking about. Neither are smart, or are particularly good on foreign affairs, but Cruz has a beard.
I'm sure he'll be delighted to know that someone out there actually likes him, and doesn't just merely tolerate him.Think it’s Cruz, the lawyer dude. I disagree and think he’s a smart bloke.
I'm sure that Hamas, who care about nothing other than the eradication of Israel, even gave a single second's thought about Palestinian civilians.What do you think the response, "Hamas should have thought of this", when told that "2 mil are trapped there", means?
Agreed.
What on earth makes you think I’d like a guy like that?I'm sure he'll be delighted to know that someone out there actually likes him, and doesn't just merely tolerate him.
It leads me to wonder how you think "peaceful protest" is getting the Palestinians anywhere. In any case, as another poster explained, it wasn't peaceful protest that ended apartheid in South Africa.Leading you to further believe the two situations are not analogous.
You'd think that most militaries would study the philosophy of Sun Tzu, you never corner your enemy otherwise they fight to the death.It's very common for adults to only behave kindly because they fear the consequences of any other behavior. In this case one side is largely shielded from consequences while the other side believes that he has nothing to lose and doesn't care about the consequences..
He is explicitly asked "can Israel destroy Hamas without killing thousands of innocent people, including children."I think he's an idiot, but I read the Rubio thing as eradicating Hamas, not Gaza.
This distinction is being made primarily by pro-Israeli people. You are literally looking at it backward.The way many of the people in this thread have somehow managed to use dead babies being decapitated vs ‘just’ murdered as the line across which Hamas’s actions are considered barbaric is equally laughable and pathetic.
Fair enough. Sorry Cruz, this one doesn't like you either.What on earth makes you think I’d like a guy like that?
Sad to hear that. Hope they are OK and get through this.Have been unable to get through to a close friend of mine, an intensive care doctor working for MSF in Gaza since the bombing began. Another friend is Palestinian origin and returned to the West Bank to try to improve the lives of Palestinians there. Also been unable to get through to him. Hope they're both OK.
@ScholesyTheWise @Amir Hope you guys both remain safe and are doing as well as you can be considering the circumstances.
Sums up how I feel and why I have only made a few, largely tangential posts in this thread. Unlike Brexit or even Ukraine, I don’t have the capacity to fool myself that there is a realistic even vaguely fair solution in this context. It just feels hopeless, a cycle of degradation and humiliation leading to radicalisation leading to further insecurity and then to more repression etc…I'm sure that Hamas, who care about nothing other than the eradication of Israel, even gave a single second's thought about Palestinian civilians.
I often keep quiet in this thread because it needs a bigger brain than mine to properly convey feelings over, but I despair at how fecked everything is. Two million innocent people, trapped, being held hostage by an Israel that is afraid of what might come through their checkpoints if they opened them up, because they know if they let their guards down for a second Hamas would kill them all. But what is the price? The subjugation of innocent Palestinians, the indiscriminate bombing and killing over decades, while the world sits back and says "this is fine".
Palestinians are not Hamas, but Hamas cannot be stopped without putting Palestinian lives at risk. The alternative is the obliteration of Israel and it's people. But the cost is that the people of Gaza are fecked. No matter is Hamas wins or Israel wins, Palestinians in Gaza are fecked.
Fecking up the offers of a two state solution didn’t help. But as I said, it’s not analogous.It leads me to wonder how you think "peaceful protest" is getting the Palestinians anywhere. In any case, as another poster explained, it wasn't peaceful protest that ended apartheid in South Africa.
Sun Tzu wrote a load on sieges. It’s not all relevant, but he did say it was a last resort And that he was really against them. The best strategy was to make the enemy come out and surrender.You'd think that most militaries would study the philosophy of Sun Tzu, you never corner your enemy otherwise they fight to the death.
If the MSF guy has a satphone and there's been no contact for 24h, dm me. I can try something. EU/US citizen?Have been unable to get through to a close friend of mine, an intensive care doctor working for MSF in Gaza since the bombing began. Another friend is Palestinian origin and returned to the West Bank to try to improve the lives of Palestinians there. Also been unable to get through to him. Hope they're both OK.
@ScholesyTheWise @Amir Hope you guys both remain safe and are doing as well as you can be considering the circumstances.
Your doctor friend's life is worth so much more then his own at the moment. I really hope they're all ok.Have been unable to get through to a close friend of mine, an intensive care doctor working for MSF in Gaza since the bombing began. Another friend is Palestinian origin and returned to the West Bank to try to improve the lives of Palestinians there. Also been unable to get through to him. Hope they're both OK.
@ScholesyTheWise @Amir Hope you guys both remain safe and are doing as well as you can be considering the circumstances.
Thank you, will continue trying and let you know if not. Not 100% sure if he has a satphone or not. He's an Aussie/Kiwi.If the MSF guy has a satphone and there's been no contact for 24h, dm me. I can try something. EU/US citizen?
Well, I guess everything can be compared - more I think when you read literature about E Germany it was a struggle but without the constant attacks and reliance on aid, so Palestine looks much much worse. There was rationing, food shortages, heating issues and they were forcibly penned onto their side of the wall to stop them working in the W but the main 'fear' was from the Stasi as I recall. If you just went about your business without trying to escape/try anything (not that that is a good scenario to be in) it was quite a safe society versus looking at Israel/Palestine now where there are thousands of civilians now getting shelled into oblivion.Well that was what I was doing, if you didn't understand that it was on you. But how exactly are they not comparable?
I’m no BBC apologist given its miserable failure around Brexit (and Corbyn, even if I’m not exactly a fan) but the website is led by articles on the unfolding humanitarian disaster in Gaza and also states: “The death toll in Israel from the Hamas attacks has reached 1,200 - while more than 1,100 people have been killed by Israeli air strikes on Gaza”. Are you referring to the TV news?CBA quoting those involved, but to say the BBC are reporting on this affair impartiality is laughable.
Loss of life on the Israel sides are being reported as 'people have been killed'. Loss of life in Gaza is reported as 'people have died'. It's horrendous reporting and continues to drive an uncomfortable narrative in the UK.
Yes purely the TV side.I’m no BBC apologist given its miserable failure around Brexit (and Corbyn, even if I’m not exactly a fan) but the website is led by articles on the unfolding humanitarian disaster in Gaza and also states: “The death toll in Israel from the Hamas attacks has reached 1,200 - while more than 1,100 people have been killed by Israeli air strikes on Gaza”. Are you referring to the TV news?
The important thing is continued contact with his organisation. You should be able to contact them if you're not a part of it, but essentially he'll have a pager/phone that he uses to communicate he's aok every 24 hours or so. Usually that would include location too. I wouldn't worry though, MSF are very experienced and competent. They'll have procedures to pursue if he doesn't check in.Thank you, will continue trying and let you know if not. Not 100% sure if he has a satphone or not. He's an Aussie/Kiwi.
I agree with the spirit of your post. That being said, what do you suggest for Israel to do in response to last weekend's attack?Why is this notion of revenge completely acceptable at a nation level by so many people? Why is it that Israel are just completely justified in rinsing Gaza to kingdom come now, is there no bar that we are holding modern, wealthy, 1st world societies to?
If you asked any of these people in everyday life if someone should be allowed kill a person that murdered one of their family members, I feel like most would say no, they should go to prison. But a regional superpower is deserving of overshadowing anything that happened in their country, because why?
I reckon you knew exactly what you were doing.I didn't know anyone would take it literally. Of course in this context I meant the difference between a normal threat or a red alert warning about a barbarism with thousands of terrorists. I won't comment on the second part.
Yes this is what I’ve been saying too.CBA quoting those involved, but to say the BBC are reporting on this affair impartiality is laughable.
Loss of life on the Israel sides are being reported as 'people have been killed'. Loss of life in Gaza is reported as 'people have died'. It's horrendous reporting and continues to drive an uncomfortable narrative in the UK.
This is not what I'm seeing on bbc.com?CBA quoting those involved, but to say the BBC are reporting on this affair impartiality is laughable.
Loss of life on the Israel sides are being reported as 'people have been killed'. Loss of life in Gaza is reported as 'people have died'. It's horrendous reporting and continues to drive an uncomfortable narrative in the UK.
The death toll in Israel from the Hamas attacks has reached 1,200 - while more than 1,100 people have been killed by Israeli air strikes on Gaza
It's not that its acceptable, its that its the only way major powers have to deter and punish such actions from the groups they oppress or bully.Why is this notion of revenge completely acceptable at a nation level by so many people? Why is it that Israel are just completely justified in rinsing Gaza to kingdom come now, is there no bar that we are holding modern, wealthy, 1st world societies to?
If you asked any of these people in everyday life if someone should be allowed kill a person that murdered one of their family members, I feel like most would say no, they should go to prison. But a regional superpower is deserving of overshadowing anything that happened in their country, because why?
I don't know how fanciful it is but since Israel and all its allies are at the top of Intelligence services and special forces, maybe it would be a better idea to have an international special service coalition that target Hamas?I agree with the spirit of your post. That being said, what do you suggest for Israel to do in response to last weekend's attack?
Considering the problem of Hamas, I can’t see there’s much of an option other than full scale invasion?Why is this notion of revenge completely acceptable at a nation level by so many people? Why is it that Israel are just completely justified in rinsing Gaza to kingdom come now, is there no bar that we are holding modern, wealthy, 1st world societies to?
If you asked any of these people in everyday life if someone should be allowed kill a person that murdered one of their family members, I feel like most would say no, they should go to prison. But a regional superpower is deserving of overshadowing anything that happened in their country, because why?
Wait, you're not saying Palestinians are solely responsible for the failure of negotiations to reach final settlement, surely?Fecking up the offers of a two state solution didn’t help. But as I said, it’s not analogous.
That's an incredibly stupid take. Why would they do that, when they have terrain to clear for a huge and dangerous impending ground attack?I don't know how fanciful it is but since Israel and all its allies are at the top of Intelligence services and special forces, maybe it would be a better idea to have an international special service coalition that target Hamas?
Because think about this, since Israel were caught by surprise what are the chances that this immediate response is based on a well thought plan? They are just bombing, destroying things for the sake of bombing and destroying.
By all means stand up against your oppressive regime, but personally I find it a bit pathetic to start championing the US (who overthrew your democratically elected leader Mossadegh if you recall, and sided with Saddam during the Iraq-Iran war) and cheerleading for Israel, an apartheid nation.Thanks mate. Yes, and also there is this famous video from 2020 Tehran right after Trump sent Suleimani to hell to burn eternally....The public refused to walk on Israeli/US flags and the few regime supporters who did it were massively booed and told at: Here is the video: (btw, how do we attach now that Twitter is X?)
https://x.com/emilyshar1/status/1710881841211638203?s=20
Also these were some of the photos of Iranians at Israel-support rally in Toronto (I'd hazard there were 200-300 Iranians there at least)
Yeah someone posted his blog a few pages back. Well worth the read.