No, both sides obviously share responsibility. Since then, mostly Israel. But the Palestinians did feck it up at that point.
Coming from you it's a compliment, thank you.
Gaza complicates things because it's essentially an Israeli prison, while also being part of a separate state, and also a rogue terrorist state (Hamas governs the tetritory). It makes everything extremely messy.
Strawman.
Brilliant post. Heartbreaking to read as well.
@adexkola I think is (apologies if I've got the wrong person)
It's @africanspur not him
@Avatar is Egyptian.
You should be fine. Egypt are very unlikely to get dragged into this conflict. And if they do, the problems would be localised to the Sinai border, which is miles away from where you'd be. I say go and enjoy.
Thanks - knew I'd seen a lot of Egypt chat a few pages back from someone about Sisi
Which negotiations did they feck up in your opinion?
Come and enjoy your time. We're fine.
It's really interesting how Mossadegh has more fans among Westerners than actually in Iran. He was a neo-communist (Who was by the way, never "elected". As a prime minister, he was appointed by the parliament and approval of the Shah based on the rules of constitutional monarchy) and the grandson of Qajar elite (perhaps the second most incompetent regime in history of Iran after Islamic Republic). The white revolution which was done on Shah's order which gave lands to peasants, gave women the right to vote (first country in Middle East), resulted in a great redistribution of wealth to Iran's working class, explosive economic growth in subsequent decades, rapid urbanization, and deconstruction of Iran's feudalist customs was all done long after that "coup". Iran become much more prosperous after Mossadegh' ouster as Prime Minister, and further down the line appointment of Hoveida.
I was under the impression that Arafat rejected a two-state solution, over the Palestinian 'right to return'.
On the TV fed news, which is probably more impactful than anything anyone would read anyway
I think most posters on here find the situation in Gaza horrific. Having said that, Ukraine did not launch terror attacks in Russia so it’s not an appropriate analogy - the Moscow bombings in the early 2000s carried out by “Chechens” (or the FSB) would be a more similar example and in that case no one in the West really gave a toss when Grozny was flattened. So it could be worse in terms of Western attention, grim as that sounds.
So Israel’s response is justified in your eyes? Effectively killing 2 million Palestinians, the overwhelming majority of them non combatants, and not affiliated with Hamas is a reasonable response based on the attack perpetrated by Hamas?
My sister flew into Cairo this morning. Says everything looks calm. The hotel workers/cabbies/etc aren't fussed at all.
Absolutely not justified (and no need to apologise - this is an incredibly raw topic). You’re fundamentally right that there are double standards at play over Palestine and Ukraine, and that includes me unfortunately - I feel more involved over the latter whereas with Palestine I suppose I tune out in a sense of numb fatalism until something dramatic happens like last weekend.
Look, you're getting ahead of yourself. There are no 2 million dead Palestinians, and it won't happen. But a siege + invasion will indeed inflict heavy casualties on Gaza's population and I agree with the sentiment that that should be avoided.
Half the in laws are from Egypt, you'll be fine. The fighting is far from where you're going.
Kaos is not western though?It's really interesting how Mossadegh has more fans among Westerners than actually in Iran. He was a neo-communist (Who was by the way, never "elected". As a prime minister, he was appointed by the parliament and approval of the Shah based on the rules of constitutional monarchy) and the grandson of Qajar elite (perhaps the second most incompetent regime in history of Iran after Islamic Republic). The white revolution which was done on Shah's order which gave lands to peasants, gave women the right to vote (first country in Middle East), resulted in a great redistribution of wealth to Iran's working class, explosive economic growth in subsequent decades, rapid urbanization, and deconstruction of Iran's feudalist customs was all done long after that "coup". Iran become much more prosperous after Mossadegh' ouster as Prime Minister, and further down the line appointment of Hoveida.
Re: Saddam...Gazzans love Saddam. Here is Saddam square in Gazza, while in Israel they have "Cyrus the great street" ...
As for Apartheid state...I care about one thing personally because as a nation we have zero time for sentimentalism after 44 years of misery where all of our taxes, and money from sale of our natural resources (Oil, Gas) has gone to Palestine instead of Iran as we've become poorer and poorer as a nation (7:1 exchange rate of our currency to USD in Shah's time vs. 42,000:1 now)....We want nothing to do with Palestine anymore. Not our problem!
Who hates Iranian people and would gladly murder them with no mercy so their sugar-daddy sponsor can stay in power? Hamas and their supporters
Who loves Hamas? Islamic Republic Regime who's the root cause of our plight
Who is ready to absolutely level Hamas? Israel
These monsters just murdered another 16-year old via their morality police (She has been in a coma for 10 days, but reports coming last hour that she's died)...Another Mahsa...spare me of outrage! whenever Gazzans and Palestinians stop supporting the evil regime that rule Iran and care about our youth being murdered, I'll spare them sympathy.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/05/armita-geravand-iran-cctv
Thanks man! Good to know!
That's why I said effectively - what do you think will happen when food, water, medicine runs out, the borders are closed and you're being bombed to oblivion?
And you think Israel will continue that right up to the point where 2 million Palestinians have died?
I am honestly appalled by the sheer hypocrisy displayed in just a matter of months. I vividly remember the Ukraine thread and the views on Russia and how everyone felt for Ukrainian people and rightly so. An year later, a genocide is being committed or about to be committed right before us by IDF but there are reasons I have been told.
2 million is an insanely high number, it would be shocking if it came anywhere near that. Tens of thousands at the most is more likely.
So what number do you think they'll stop at? Let's be honest, it's not about getting Hamas here - it's punishment for all of Gaza.
Oh, how merciful.
Which is not a good reason for never trying again. Both peoples need to try and find a peaceful long-term agreement. It would be helpful if other nations, especially the most powerful, would share that ideal instead of supporting a military solution, which will only provide temporary respite, as the root cause will still remain, and likely be strengthened too.
There have been people who I disagree with in this thread, but let me just say that you're pure fecking evil.It's really interesting how Mossadegh has more fans among Westerners than actually in Iran. He was a neo-communist (Who was by the way, never "elected". As a prime minister, he was appointed by the parliament and approval of the Shah based on the rules of constitutional monarchy) and the grandson of Qajar elite (perhaps the second most incompetent regime in history of Iran after Islamic Republic). The white revolution which was done on Shah's order which gave lands to peasants, gave women the right to vote (first country in Middle East), resulted in a great redistribution of wealth to Iran's working class, explosive economic growth in subsequent decades, rapid urbanization, and deconstruction of Iran's feudalist customs was all done long after that "coup". Iran become much more prosperous after Mossadegh' ouster as Prime Minister, and further down the line appointment of Hoveida.
Re: Saddam...Gazzans love Saddam. Here is Saddam square in Gazza, while in Israel they have "Cyrus the great street" ...
As for Apartheid state...I care about one thing personally because as a nation we have zero time for sentimentalism after 44 years of misery where all of our taxes, and money from sale of our natural resources (Oil, Gas) has gone to Palestine instead of Iran as we've become poorer and poorer as a nation (7:1 exchange rate of our currency to USD in Shah's time vs. 42,000:1 now)....We want nothing to do with Palestine anymore. Not our problem!
Who hates Iranian people and would gladly murder them with no mercy so their sugar-daddy sponsor can stay in power? Hamas and their supporters
Who loves Hamas? Islamic Republic Regime who's the root cause of our plight
Who is ready to absolutely level Hamas? Israel
These monsters just murdered another 16-year old via their morality police (She has been in a coma for 10 days, but reports coming last hour that she's died)...Another Mahsa...spare me of outrage! whenever Gazzans and Palestinians stop supporting the evil regime that rule Iran and care about our youth being murdered, I'll spare them sympathy.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/05/armita-geravand-iran-cctv
So how dead and injured would be acceptable? 100 thousand? And what do you think will happen next?
