A lot of talk on here but nothing changes. No new investment. Glazers cash in some shares and are still in charge. Nothing changes without action like a boycott that hits the absent landlords in the pocket.
Club Sale | It’s done!
- Thread starter JB08
- Start date
- Status
More debt yay
Ineos reportedly will, for a sizable portion of the club.
Because its important, if you are buying 100% you have to also consider the other 33% of class major shareholders and also clearing the debt (which in M&A is a major financial part of such an offer)
Debt FC.
Hence going to a vote this week...
Glazers have all previously sold shares and not required a vote because the rules applied. This time is not the case.
Not exactly. If Ineos only end up buying some of Glazers shares then they would net significantly less in cash
Spite
Yes, of course you get less for selling part of a thing than if you sell the whole thing. They get cash that is in line with their valuation of the shares, and then they get to keep the rest of the shares because they think they're more valuable than what Qatar was willing to pay.
Important to note that my boy is also called Jim, named after one of the greatest bands in the world*, and therefore I am fully confident that this other James will be absolutely great.
*actually named after his grandad but still...
*actually named after his grandad but still...
I wouldn't be falling for the United Stand saltiness. They seem very bitter they didn't get their Qatar favourite and will milk it for all the negativity and clicks they can. There is nothing at all to say the new debt is on United's books, it will almost certainly be on INEOS & as such have no effect - unless they intend to cover the repayments with cash from United but as yet there is nothing to say they will. There's enough to be concerned about without falling for their attempts to get doom views and will in the end only lead to people feeling worse.
Yes I understand that. They will only be more valuable if the club is well run though, which is not a given considering the state of the facilities and state of current finances
Not quite the same, is it? Fergie was first team manager and still had to operate within owner-approved budgets. How does Radcliffe or his team approve the manager/Dof’s budget when he only has a 25% stake?
Jassim didn't "withdraw". He lost. If he wanted the club so badly he should have used some business nous like Ratcliffe did. Bought a stake and built it from there.
Actually its entirely worrying because other than purchasing the 25% of shares. There needs to be significant further investment in club infrastructure and if they are leveraging just to by the shares where is this additional investment going to come from?
It’s so pathetic you just have to laugh.
Owners who couldn’t initially afford
to buy the club in the first place, selling a quarter of it off to a guy using more debt to purchase that.
When will this fanbase learn…!?
And when will the PL step in and stop this kind of nonsense?
Yeah, as you just said. If. It's like you are arguing with yourself.
Qatar's national debt is currently around $110b.
According to both Ineos and the Glazers, the club is more valuable right now. It would be very weird to sell something for less than you think it's worth, unless you're desperate for cash.
Lot's of posts regarding development of the Old Trafford area, there is some opportunity behind the stadium but I'd imagine that's earmarked for any potential new stadium project, other than a few patches of wasteland and a couple of derelict buildings near the stadium I'm not sure what anyone could (or should) do. It's a complexed area and completely unlike the Eastlands project City inherited. People pushing for this such as Gary Neville have a financial interest and may well be overlooking the preexisting community. Gentrification is an issue in Manchester and is already sweeping towards Old Trafford.
Is that true though? I’d imagine the biggest factor in determining share price is deals like sponsorships and especially TV deals. I think the Glazers are frightened of selling 100% to Qatar when new tv deals can make the club much more valuable over 10/20 years.
No dodgy tweet sources - known journos only
Not sure Marky G and the United Stand fall the this category if I am honest.
Not sure Marky G and the United Stand fall the this category if I am honest.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
You listen to a lot of posters in here and it’s all brilliant news and those of us questioning the economic ramifications are babies throwing our toys from the pram.
It’s so pathetic you just have to laugh.
Owners who couldn’t initially afford
to buy the club in the first place, selling a quarter of it off to a guy using more debt to purchase that.
When will this fanbase learn…!?
And when will the PL step in and stop this kind of nonsense?
Debt United.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Arnold rocking the v-neck and trainers look for an extremely important business meeting. LAD!
Really think Jassim was full of it. I'll pay nearly double but not double.
I hope it all falls through.
The United Stand/Goldbridge will do anything to spin this negatively as they wanted Qatar badly. No one has even seen Sheikh Jassim apart from the same 4 photos doing the rounds and all his bidding was done through intermediaries
Any so called new debt will not be against the club it will INEOS' debt. Why don't we wait and see what happens in the board meeting during the week when most of this will become clear.
Guess what, the rest of the purchase will be completed at even higher valuation, taking on bigger loans.
It’s so pathetic you just have to laugh.
Owners who couldn’t initially afford
to buy the club in the first place, selling a quarter of it off to a guy using more debt to purchase that.
When will this fanbase learn…!?
And when will the PL step in and stop this kind of nonsense?
But ineos make 2bn profits a year so it's all fine, or something
i assume its being more professional dealing with other clubs and networking on transfers. We might have a bit more respect and not be taken for mugs as much anymore. Not necessarily deciding how much the club can spend, but being more efficient
The whole thing doesn't add up.
The glazers could have sold up fully and made an absolute mint.
It says to me they have no intention of selling fully, because surely this deal leaves them with less money in the end.
The poster seemed to take issue with Ineos financing an investment with debt. This is completely normal for most businesses and most countries, and Qatar's debt:revenue ratio is currently much higher than Ineos'.
Of the remaining options, it would be the best outcome. Unfortunately looking very unlikely though. Bleak times.
Yes, sure - like I said there is enough to be concerned about & lack of infrastructure investment is pretty much the biggest one. That's not the point I was making though. Attempting to scare the fans into thinking the debt for this deal will be on United is low and playing to peoples fears. Already people are calling it Glazers mark 2 because they don't understand / enough detail isn't out there about what is happening. So scaremongering in that environment is a shitty thing to do - and it's what they seem to be doing.
I get that, I've worked in M&A myself. My point is that they kept reiterating that aspect of the bid even when the only roadblock remaining was the Glazer brothers, who obviously don't give a shit.
You realize the debt goes to Ineos? Of course you do, you are many things but stupid isn't one of them, even though you desperately try to come off as such.
It’s so pathetic you just have to laugh.
Owners who couldn’t initially afford
to buy the club in the first place, selling a quarter of it off to a guy using more debt to purchase that.
When will this fanbase learn…!?
And when will the PL step in and stop this kind of nonsense?
- Status