Club Sale | It’s done!
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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Thanks. I'm starting to realise that The Athletic is great for getting elite/corporation-linked exclusive propaganda. Just like most mainstream media.
Nothing wrong with that - it has its place and gives an insight into what these people are thinking. The folly is to take what they say at face value.
I’ve often wondered during this whole thing why Ratcliffe and indeed INEOS have gone balls deep into the whole sports venture thing.
I wonder if ultimately he’s looking to or believes that INEOS will be sold in the not too distant future and these acquisitions of various sporting assets are a way of diversifying his business, not too dissimilar to what the oil states are doing with sports/tourism/overseas property and businesses etc.
I wonder if ultimately he’s looking to or believes that INEOS will be sold in the not too distant future and these acquisitions of various sporting assets are a way of diversifying his business, not too dissimilar to what the oil states are doing with sports/tourism/overseas property and businesses etc.
This is such an ill informed post. You say he hasn't shaken up Nice for the better? Do you know more than the Nice fans?
You couldn’t have picked a worse analogy. He’s bought part of one of the most successful F1 teams ever and they’ve done nothing but lose since whilst he took a 75m dividend. Apart from his cycling everything he’s touched has turned to shit
They wanted him out in the summer don’t let a 4 wins in 8 games run cover that fact
Again, stop acting like you know the full changes that have occurred at Nice.
We do need wholesale changes though because the people at the top just aren’t cutting it.
Nice fans don't like or trust Ratcliffe. The reality of Nice is that they have been underwhelming under his ownership and have been lapped by clubs that were below them but Ineos sports changed their structure in 2023, so things good be better in the future.
This is pretty stark in contrast to the Athletic dive into Nice fan sentiment, which accepts chaotic periods but seems to appreciate the work INEOS have put in for longer lasting success.
Its no more than 4 months ago that Nice fans protested against their ownership. I learned quickly in this whole farce to take anything from the Athletic in regards to Ineos with a massive grain of salt, as well as anything from Sky about Qatar.
I trust JPRouve's comments much more given his knowledge of French football.
Fair enough, but as he said they have made some good changes since and this idea from the other poster that everything he touches turns to shit is pure exaggeration. Also, it's a running joke these days that you also don't need much to get the French to protest.
So is Ratcliffe being blamed for Mercedes not winning, maybe it is Red Bull found a better driver, that Lewis Hamilton is still good but not as good as he was. Red Bull might have better engineers building their cars. There will be a lot of factors, but lets blame Sir Jim Ratcliffe.
Didn't it kind of happen with the cycling as well?
Either way, thankfully you can't really turn us to shit so hopefully he has better luck with us.
Its that Red Bull model of associating yourself with sporting excellence which attracts more people to the name and product. In that model, a company will take it seriously as putting their name out on a failing team drives people away and brings a negative reputation.
So by that logic, INEOS will be determined to not only make United work but to succeed, and wont tolerate the nonsense that we’ve endured under the Glazers where money is the important thing.
Thats fair. But that sounds eerily close to what our rivals say about the Glazers in relation to United.
Thats becsuse the Glazers had over a decade to address our problems and never did.
And while that is true, and your other comments about resent changes in Nice are true as well, and I do honestly hope that Jim does better with United. I still think its fair to have concerns given Ineos history in sports so far.
To be fair, it came up because someone compared him to someone running a formula 1 team.
The Athletic article is total nonsense. Not only fans were critical of INEOS for their treatment of fans which was one of the reason behind their strike in May but the players were also critical with the captain Dante sharing this quote:
https://www.francebleu.fr/sports/football/ogc-nice-le-ras-le-bol-silencieux-des-supporters-8485310 (Fans protest)
If the Athletic tries to sell you anything other than discontent then know that they are lying.
Can Lewis Hamilton play CF.
I only brought up mercedes because someone compared him to a successful F1 team owner.
Which is a silly thing to do given the circumstances.
So, if I’m following this thread correctly, INEOS were very underwhelming owners up until this year when they overhauled their sport division?
I mean the cycling is not that great eiether, no where near as successful as they were at Sky despite their budget doubling.
They overhauled their sport division and there is no way to know if it's going to be a success or not. Nice started the season well but that's about it.
If you want to change Red Bull for Man City you can pop that argument in your pocket for a later date.
Jim still has the money he got for his 10th birthday, with interest and inflation it's now worth 2 and 6.
Stop trying to see shoots of light, this isn't the thread for that. People are still in mourning that the club isn't selling it's soul to became a state owned machine and are instead about to be ran by a moronic self made billionaire who has clearly never got anything right in his whole life.
Initially yes the share price will drop, maybe as low as $16-17, however the INEOS board have promised somewhere in the range $41-43 per share to both Class A and Class B. They have suggested that because of the additional investment required on the playing and sporting side of the club, they can only afford to offer 25% as a windfall today.
Sir Jim is now starting to discuss a further £1 billion investment which will include stadium modernisation , minor improvements at carrington, £90m inclusive of Director investment for FFP and then potentially an additional £300m on new players added to an initial payment of £200m to be paid from the historical debt of £635m. This is probably, when all added up is the other £1.5 billion they had originally set aside to buy the club, they should be able to see huge improvements on the field and In the financial day to day running of the club. The Club and stadium investment pays for itself with a proposed increase of 15,000 seats to the stadiums capacity.
Hypothetically let’s say by some miracle ETH starts wining, more focused by knowing he has to prove himself to Sir Jim and by some miracle he ends up with 9 points in CL, qualifies for the round of 16, his team have moved up to say 6th in PL with 35 points at the New year point after 20 PL games and he’s 4 points off top 4, the share price will start to go up.
He has a successful winter transfer window and makes the top 5 this summer then in the following two years, he’s successful, coming 2nd and then 3rd again by wining a couple of cups along the way, maybe even making a CL Semi Final this will increase the share price exponentially.
If by 2027 the new stadium is ready and
New TV deals allow increased revenues of let’s £800m and even though though FSP is 70% which means the club can only spend £560m on wages, finances, net transfer fees, agent fees amortised transfer etc. It’s fair to assume that INEOS initial investment of £500m, forget the Stadium that would be separate line of investment (self funding and paid by sponsorship initiatives) could provide an improvement on the pitch but also during the period from 2024 to 2028, the debt could have been significantly reduced from £635m to £150-200m which is more easily managed by the increased revenues and profits.
At this point Share prices could reach $40-45 and therefore put and call clause’s automatically activated. It all still hypothetical and questions like ;
1. Where does the money come from that Ineos are proposing to invest and will it be repaid ?
2. How much money will be made available for the next three transfer windows?
3. How do they intend to modernise old Trafford into a 90,000 stadium when most fans know it needs major surgery and surely it would be easier to just build snotger
4. Will the existing debt be paid off in manageable chunks over a 3-4 year period
5. Will the Directors of the club invest the £30m necessary over the next three years to prevent FFP sanctions.
6. can the fans have a binding agreement in a manifesto that no fragging shall ever be done at any ground owned by the Club?
7. If Sir Jim Is becoming a co owner, can he state in this manifesto that should Nice and Man united both qualify for the same European competition that united would always play in the most prestigious and Nice relegated to Europa or Conference league football?
There are many more questions but these need to be answered before the vote on Thursday to the 12 board directors making the most important decision for the club this century
I’m gradually coming round to the view that INEOS will take over and the board will ratify this on Thursday. Even if we assume 4 members out of 12 vote against Ratcliffe’s proposal that simply won’t be enough to stop his minority buy in to the business.
I have always assumed that INEOS are buying 25% of the Class B shares which is 28.25m from the 113m and approximately 12.75m of the 51m Class A shares, giving them 41m of the 164m shares available which is exactly 25%.
I would presume that the INEOS lawyers have a ‘Co Ownership’ contract where there are numerous ‘put and call’ agreement clauses and the minimum value per share can be activated by either party in line with the original purchase and future increases.
The matter of the 28.25m class B voting shares which have 10 times the voting rights must have a special dispensation clause in the contract which is to be agreed under the new co ownership structure that these shares do not revert to class A when sold. INEOS are just too smart not to have these clauses in the ‘Buy In’ option they are trying to get board approval for.
Finally on the subject of his actually voting power after the initially 25% purchase you have to assume that 113m class b shares have 1.13 billion(Due to 10* Factor) plus the 51m class A shares would mean that INEOS now have 292.25m voting shares against a total of 1.181 billion so simple math you buy 25%, you own 25% you now have 25% voting power as well.
I say all of this based on speculation from the press with regard to actual numbers , INEOS 25% minority buy out has changed from $1.875bn to $1.75 billion to £1.5 billion to £1.3 billion to now more recently £1.4 billion.
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Can we just do a cheap deal for Todibo? They can have literally anyone in return.
Can Ineos remove our debt and take it on for themselves?
If yes, would that ease our FFP restrictions and allow us to spend more than we would normally be able to otherwise?
If yes, would that ease our FFP restrictions and allow us to spend more than we would normally be able to otherwise?
Yes but now they’ve completely revamped the sporting structure. Brailsford had to take on too much of a hands on approach because the structure was wanting. Now they’ve employed football people in football positions and yes it’s early but they look more stable.
They will do when he buys united and says that if both clubs qualify for the CL then Nice will have to play Europa League ?
So what you’re saying is that he plans to buy big old players and hope he can restore them to former glories
I'm listening to it now, very good coverage and encouraged by what I'm hearing to be honest.
We've got someone who tried to buy Chelsea less than 18 months ago and who cant pay any cash. Someone who has to borrow to pay for a fraction.
We've got someone who is actually buying us, as opposed to SJ who talked a lot through the press and ultimately did bugger all.
Nice bid £100 million plus Todibo for Maguire?
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