You appear to have no self awareness.
Rugby Union 21/22/23 Discussion | RWC time!
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A lot of talk from South Africans on the twits that 'cnut' isn't a commonly used word in SA and he could have been saying 'Wit/Wyd Kant' which translates as White/Wide side.
I can't see this amounting to much.
I can't see this amounting to much.
Probably best to just avoid using skin colour when insulting people, there isn’t really any need or excuse to do it. Can’t imagine I’d feel great if a black South African came up to me and called me a white cnut. It doesn’t really need defending. (Of course he might not have said it, which is a different argument).
Lets hope it’s just a misunderstanding and can get sorted out between the pair.
Not really. He said he wouldn’t feel great. Not that he’d run over to the officials to tell them what happened.
There’s me thinking you’d know what grass means, being a copper and all….
And you’re a Doctor aren’t you? Aren’t you all meant to be smart?
Smarter than coppers, sure.
Yes it's a rare swear word over here to be honest. It would also be very surprising given he is the vice-captain and probably more than half the squad and coaches are white. The weather was shocking, the crowd was loud and the game was rough. Add in two people with completely different accents (and one who may be talking a different language) and the most likely conclusion is it's a mishearing.
Oh that’s a given. We are notoriously thick.
Perhaps you should stick to talking about medicine though.
I thought about this, but the only thing is this would take away the ability to have a push over try, but I don't know how common that is now, a scrum won't move more than 1m anymore without it completely collapsing. I would say your idea is decent and I would also downgrade penalties to free kicks, although in theory a team on top could keep scrummaging, keep winning free kicks and just kill the clock. Its a drastic change, but perhaps a new lesser penalty type where going at the posts isn't an option.
I'm not really sure, what I am sure of is that the modern scrum is absolutely indecipherable for new watchers and experienced watchers alike. For a sport that's always struggled to really grow in the mainstream outside of the established nations its a big problem. It simply has to be simplified.
Can't agree. There is a huge difference between using a race-based insult towards people who's race has been systematically opressed for centuries and those who havn't. If someone came up to me in the streets and called me a "white cnut" I wouldn't even think twice about it, it wouldn't make any sense to me. If you can't see that then honestly I think its you without the awareness.
Think people are getting too bogged down into a which term is more racist to say argument. It's ill advised to say something like white cnut to a person as it is to say black cnut to a person.
It’s quite staggering how you both miss the point tbh. Not only that you seem to think projecting how you’d feel is exactly how everyone else should feel in that situation.
It’s really strange. Almost playground like.
As is always the case on redcafe the discussion only gets bogged down when someone make a reasonable point then an absolute weapon starts an argument about it. The two insults are definitely not equivalent. And a white guy taking offence (never mind complaining to the authorities) about being called a “white cnut” is being thin skinned.
Its not staggering at all, its incredibly small minded of you to assume all things must always be equivalent. I bet you used to shout "all lives matter" and the TV a lot right?
And yet here you are doing the same and acting like you're not and its everyone else arguing.
Wouldn't say it is being thin skinned or whether it matters or not if it is equivalent. There is no need to add a racial element to the slur and it's better for the game and society in general if those racial elements to slurs are dealt with.
I’m doing the same? I’m just pointing out the comments which are blaming the victim are wrong. As is the assumption no one should be arsed about being called a white cnut and in raising it the victim is a grass.
In terms of small mindedness. Again. Total lack of self awareness.
Out of interest, if one your children or relatives was called as such, and they came to you to say they were hurt by the comments, how would you deal with it?
With a quick chat about the background of racial insults and why they shouldn't feel hurt by that specific insult. Basically getting them to check their privilege. Same stuff I've already said in this thread.
Can we move back to rugby please?
Race/racism discussions on the caf are all copies of themselves and everyone’s heard all sides before….this thread’s lost its fun going over all the old positions
It would be far more enjoyable to refer to all the types of cnut Ben O’Keefe is (blind cnut, biased cnut etc etc) without referring to his race
Race/racism discussions on the caf are all copies of themselves and everyone’s heard all sides before….this thread’s lost its fun going over all the old positions
It would be far more enjoyable to refer to all the types of cnut Ben O’Keefe is (blind cnut, biased cnut etc etc) without referring to his race
Despite this, do you not think making racially charged insults is something that shouldn't be okay? I do agree that in the context of the UK there is more weight in saying it to someone who is black rather than white but in a wider context of insults, I don't think we should be leaving racially charged insults unpunished which is why I think we need to remove ourselves from the is it worse to say it to "insert race" rather than "insert race".
There's a spectrum from "is ok", through "is not ok", all the way to "must be punished". I definitely think it's a hell of a lot closer to "is ok" than "must be punished". And I always get wound up by white males whining about stuff like this, as there's a real whiff of "All Lives Matter" from these sort of complaints.
Anyhoo, I'll respect what @T00lsh3d suggests and say no more on the subject. This conversation is circular anyway.
There's a potentially incredible game of rugby on next weekend. Let's stick to discussing that.
To get back to the rugby, there will be an English presence in the final with Wayne Barnes set to referee the final, while Tom Foley will probably be the TMO.
Wonderful. More utterly mystifying scrum penalties.
Apparently Mbonambi said "wit kant" to a teammate who had asked who's ball it was.
World Rugby have opened an investigation.
World Rugby have opened an investigation.
Alex Corbisiero on the that crucial scrum penalty which allowed Pollard to kick South Africa into the lead: https://archive.md/MDQSF
Which translates to white side, I believe.
Correct, Kant is Afrikaans for ”side”
I’ll allow you both ‘English cnut’ for Barnsy
Not Luke Pearce though knew this would be in herewe owe south africa a few.
So I just read the South Africa would be the first team in history to play all the other top 6 ranked countries a world cup. That's impressive, even if we lose this weekend.
Jonny May comparing Borthwick to Alan Turing. It’s at times like this I understand why everyone hates the English.
He also threw Spock into the mix. I suspect he's been watching Enigma and re-runs of the original Star Trek recently.
You’ve had a brutal run of fixtures. Even the “easy” semi turned out incredibly tough due to crappy weather and England playing out of their skin. NZ have definitely had a much easier run to the final. Only two difficult games so far and as easy a semi final as you could possibly hope for. Which is why I would have them as slight favourites next weekend. Should be a hell of a game though!
Just seen a compilation clip of South Africans of all colour, shape and size celebrating their semifinal win on Twitter, heartwarming stuff. I think South Africa going all the way means a lot more to the average Saffer than the average Kiwi and for this reason I hope they finish the job come Saturday.
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