Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

[Roane]

Funding them may be a it over the top but Netanyahu did things to tacitly stabilize Hamas’ rule in Gaza by allowing 15m in cash to be sent in from Qatar in 2018 to pay local civil servants after Fatah stopped payments to them in a cynical attempt to reduce Hamas’ influence in the strip. At the time Netanyahu’s excuse was that it would help stabilize southern Israeli towns from rocket attacks, something the likes of Naftali Bennett were very critical of; in retrospect rightfully so.

This is one of those examples some are now citing where Israel helped Hamas, but as usual, the specifics of why are a bit more nuanced than headline itself.

There has been more than one voice accusing Netanyahu of funnelling money to Hamas over the years.

There have been resignations because of it. There are even reports of how Qatar and Egypt wanted to cut ties with Hamas but Netanyahu begged them not to.

Israel's regular allowing of Qatari funds to be transferred into Gaza, saying it is part of a broader strategy to keep Hamas and the Palestinian Authority separate, a source in Monday's Likud faction meeting said," the Post reported.

"The prime minister also said that 'whoever is against a Palestinian state should be for' transferring the funds to Gaza, because maintaining a separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza helps prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state."

Netanyahu knows that a peace plan means a Palestinian state. He doesn't want it

 

[That_Bloke]

Do they? even that has changed since 2017. Carter did say Hamas was ready to negotiate but Netanyahu was not interested in a two state solution. The only thing I can see is Netanyahu marginalising the PA and Fath to give Hamas the ground for a bigger role in the Palestinian politics. That is the only way he can keep his dream of a one Israeli state if he has fanatics on the other side.

The 2017 Charter is, to my eyes, little more than a PR offensive and a desperate attempt to gain the Saudi's support back.

I would never consider the Hamas as a credible dialogue partner that would play by the rules unless my boot is firmly on its throat. Even then, I'd also honestly rather have had this kind of menace out of the way as fast as possible, and have done my utmost to search for and support a partner on the other side who can see reason and is truly willing to work together. Cut the grass under the feet of the extremists wherever and whenever possible. If I'm truly looking for peace and a fair solution, that is.

You just can't tame a snake, which is exactly why Netanyahu's policy was perverse, short-sighted, suicidal and doomed to failure. They've bred and fed a monster that they're now not going to be able to get rid of.

 

[calodo2003]

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[Ted Lasso]

What's the most factual and verified account of October 7th attacks?

 

[Kaush949]

I don't agree with what Israel is doing.
But of course understand why they need to get rid of Hamas.

Hamas is literally hiding behind its citizens and bunkered underneath the hospital.

Hamas has no regard for Palestinian or Israeli lives.

What should Israel do in this situation? They are damned either way.

Genuine Question for you.

Let's ignore Gaza for a minute. What would be a fair and proportionate response from West Bank Palestinians directed at israeli government and illegal settlers for 50 years of occupation, apartheid and illegal settlements.

What sort of reparations do you seem fair towards people of west bank?

After, Israel flattens Hamas turns them into Hummus at Gaza, would it suddenly be ready to make serious reparations with respect to West Bank?

 

[berbatrick]

Think-tank one day, ministry the next...the sky (rather, desert) is the limit!
(thread)

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[Donaldo]

Unconscionable that the world is just looking on at this genocide. The hand wringing 10 years from now and never again will be from the usual purportedly liberal suspects.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Genuine Question for you.

Let's ignore Gaza for a minute. What would be a fair and proportionate response from West Bank Palestinians directed at israeli government and illegal settlers for 50 years of occupation, apartheid and illegal settlements.

What sort of reparations do you seem fair towards people of west bank?

After, Israel flattens Hamas turns them into Hummus at Gaza, would it suddenly be ready to make serious reparations with respect to West Bank?

Are you trying to justify terrorism? Because I can tell you what not to do

 

[Kaush949]

Are you trying to justify terrorism? Because I can tell you what not to do

Absolutely not, mate. I apologize if my post gave that notion.

I am genuinely curious what an Israeli thinks is fair reparation for the occupation at West Bank. I am keeping Gaza out of this argument as Hamas is used as the reason for Gaza's plight.

And just to clarify, I am neutral in this conflict. I believe violence breeds more violence and I do not think Israel's approach is right. As an outsider, I do believe Israeli government is committing war crimes and needs to be held accountable.

I recognize Israel's right to exist. The right step from Israel is to stop the offensive and rather fortify their defenses to counter insurgencies. I am unsure if this offensive will eliminate the Hamas threat.

While I recognize Israel's right to exist, I do not think they have a right to expand. The right thing to do is to return occupied lands to Palestine (1967 borders), establish a DMZ like South Korea, and pay monetary reparations for all illegal acts over the years to be invested into education and infrastructure in Palestine.

Of course, there's zero chance any of this will happen.

 

[mu4c_20le]

@Kaush949 cheers for the clarification. I totally understand the sympathy people feel for the Palestinian people, but at first glance I thought your post had "what else could they have done" vibes. What they did was literally one of, if not the worst thing as it basically gives Israel the casus belli to do what they always wanted, which is a full invasion.

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

Spoiler

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cy_8UfkPqO-/?igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng==

 

[Highfather_24]

Thing in West Bank are going from bad to worse.

 

[That_Bloke]

Think-tank one day, ministry the next...the sky (rather, desert) is the limit!
(thread)

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There's an Israeli poster in this thread who explained that she and her ministry are pretty much irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

@Amir, I hope you're safe and doing well.

 

[The Corinthian]

Are you trying to justify terrorism? Because I can tell you what not to do

His post isn’t justifying terrorism at all, but since you mention it - what would be an expected behaviour from a native population that have been kept under a military occupation, where the conditions they live in are an apartheid state, and where their land, civil rights, and liberties are being eroded day by day by hateful groups of settlers, backed by the government and recently now armed by Ben Gvir?

Now again, analysis isn’t justification, but the PA in particular have advocated for 2 state solution for ages, and have tried to make meaningful inroads to a peaceful resolution. Bibi and the fascist government he presides over aren’t interested in peace, and certainly not interested in a two state solution which suggests that West Bank Palestinians will either have to accept the status quo or fight back. That’s the choice.

In any case, both those choices will lead to the same result (in my mind) which is the eventual removal of the Palestinians from the West Bank and their land being gobbled up by the Israelis. That’s their end goal after all.

The 3rd option and the only one that could put an end to this madness overnight is if the US brought Israel to heel and forced them to sit at the table with the PA. However, we can see that their only role in the conflict so far is to parrot wrong claims and then tell Israel to show restraint when they see another 100 dead babies buried under rubble after telling them and the world they have every right to commit war crimes and break international law, and veto any ceasefire. They’re an impotent superpower in all of this, most perfectly shown by Biden’s incompetence.

 

[R'hllor]

Nothing better then cherry picking when it comes usage of word terrorism.

 

[VorZakone]

Good article on how Israel got caught offguard. Mix of factors. As for the question why the US didn't see the attack coming, the article says that US intel spent less resources on surveilling Hamas as they thought Israel could manage it.

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[The Corinthian]

Nothing better then cherry picking when it comes usage of word terrorism.

What do you think a settler roaming around the Palestinian territory with a gun is?

There's already been 60+ Palestinian deaths in the WB in the last few weeks at the hands of settler violence? What do you think that is?

 

[Badunk]

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This is all over Twitter.

 

[flameinthesun]

What do you think a settler roaming around the Palestinian territory with a gun is?

There's already been 60+ Palestinian deaths in the WB in the last few weeks at the hands of settler violence? What do you think that is?

Shows you the cognitive dissonance some people (most people) have. The settlers are the very definition of terrorists and are funded by the Israeli government.

 

[Roane]

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This is all over Twitter.

Youssef is the guy whose name is on this video. He is a friend of a friend. He works with a charity.

He sends regular videos and pics over about what is happening on the ground. Some of them are horrific

He was recently injured himself.

 

[R'hllor]

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This is all over Twitter.

How else to get to Hamas, that car clearly was an obstacle on path of eradicating that organization.

 

[That_Bloke]

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This is all over Twitter.

The passenger just got mentally wrecked after seeing the other car being destroyed. An instant and absolute breakdown. I've seen this too many times.

He's screaming "Turn back, turn back!" to the car going in the opposite direction at the end of the video.

 

[MDFC Manager]

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This is all over Twitter.

Target practice. Essential to ensure future targets are picked correctly...or not.

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

Nothing better then cherry picking when it comes usage of word terrorism.

Hint; it's terrorism when they do it.

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

Shows you the cognitive dissonance some people (most people) have. The settlers are the very definition of terrorists and are funded by the Israeli government.

No no, they're "settlers"

 

[The Corinthian]

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This is all over Twitter.

When you're a civilian trying to escape bombardment and they kill you anyway. I wonder what that constitutes as.

 

[Roane]

I don't know how to send a video from my WhatsApp/tik tok etc.

The fella I mentioned before (Yousef) has sent a video of an IDF soldier shooting a kid from distance. The kid was just walking in Jerusalem.

 

[SilentWitness]

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This is all over Twitter.

Disgusting.

 

[That_Bloke]

I don't know how to send a video from my WhatsApp/tik tok etc.

The fella I mentioned before (Yousef) has sent a video of an IDF soldier shooting a kid from distance. The kid was just walking

You honestly don't need to post a video of a kid being shot.

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

Youssef is the guy whose name is on this video. He is a friend of a friend. He works with a charity.

He sends regular videos and pics over about what is happening on the ground. Some of them are horrific

He was recently injured himself.

God bless to him

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

You honestly don't need to post a video of a kid being shot.

Yes, seconded. Description is enough

 

[Roane]

You honestly don't need to post a video of a kid being shot.

For those saying this is a war and Israel has the right to defend itself they need to see videos like this.

This isn't a war or defence. I kid you not this was like watching a hunter take out an antelope or whatever.

 

[calodo2003]

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This is all over Twitter.

Absolutely repugnant.

 

[MDFC Manager]

I don't know how to send a video from my WhatsApp/tik tok etc.

The fella I mentioned before (Yousef) has sent a video of an IDF soldier shooting a kid from distance. The kid was just walking in Jerusalem.

This doesn't even sound like an unusual thing to have happened in Jerusalem

 

[That_Bloke]

For those saying this is a war and Israel has the right to defend itself they need to see videos like this.

This isn't a war or defence. I kid you not this was like watching a hunter take out an antelope or whatever.

No, they don't need to.

It's morbid and doesn't serve or achieve any meaningful purpose.

Feck that.

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

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I fully expect Israel will get the land, and the world will be an unwitting accomplice to this abhorrence.

We will all look the other way while they sing and cheer getting "their land" back. They'll populate it with US expats/settler's and sell the regeneration of the region to Saudi/UAE consortiums, turning it into a new Dubai, all the while a million people who used to live there, are now stateless, in the desert, with nothing. I'm sure an aid package or two will be signed to "help" but it'll amount to very little.

And Israel still won't be happy, they'll still have to manufacture skirmishes and threats (omg Iran, omg Hezbollah, omg Syria) to keep the money rolling in under the guise existential threat.

The history books will be rewritten and the "peace" will be credited to their "brave" decision of taking back Palestine and liberating it from the evil clutches of Hamas.

Bleak, bleak, bleak.

 

[Giggsyking]

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This is all over Twitter.

Disgusting terrorism.

They dont hide it,

They told the civilians with their leaflets they dropped on them in north Gaza any one seen in north Gaza will be treated as a partner to the terrorist org. Even if they try to deny it now.

 

[Roane]

No, they don't need to.

It's morbid and doesn't serve or achieve any meaningful purpose.

Feck that.

It puts an end to some of the propaganda about targeted strikes on Hamas etc.

This is not a war it's shameless murder

 

[Denis79]

If half of the videos that are coming out of Gaza are true, Isreal should be held responsible. War crimes of the highest order.

 

[That'sHernandez]

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This is all over Twitter.

I wish I hadn't watched that.