[Alemar]

Decent outing, improved us, but it was overshadowed by Onana show time.

 

[bosnian_red]

Some players just ooze brilliance, he's one of them

 

[Baxquux]

He was fine and looked composed but not sure why there is so much exaggeration about how "unreal" he was.

Guess it's part of the honeymoon period.

Well, Scott and Amrabat (who i wasn't even opposed to bringing in as a squad body) are about 9 years older and hundreds of games more experienced than him - his composure and even positioning (certainly compared to McT) puts them both to shame. He actually tries to play as a midfielder too rather than whatever chaosball Scott plays - where for every arrival in the box, you give away many more chances or fail to progress moves because of SMCT's hiding from the ball or non-availability to force a turnover and then to receive the ball from team-mates - and is sprightlier than Amrabat as well as quicker at progressing the ball without going all Bruno and hitting speculative punts. The only player who's looked similarly composed this season in CM is.... Dan Gore against Palace's weakened line=up in the cup (and i'd also be giving him minutes off the bench compared to some of these other jokers tbh).

ETH may end up losing his job with the new regime for many reasons, but a major one will be that he didn't identify the necessity of building his midfield and core of the side around players with this kind of profile - intelligent, mobile, able to take the ball under pressure and find a pass that isn't just 30 yards back to Onana or utterly speculative - which oversight has seen us get overwhelmed in so many games so far and reliant upon moments....

 

[kundalini]

Could have done a better job tracking the scorer of their 3rd goal. Looked composed in possession.

 

[Lash]

He's the truth. Future of our midfield.

 

[mav_9me]

Well, Scott and Amrabat (who i wasn't even opposed to bringing in as a squad body) are about 9 years older and hundreds of games more experienced than him - his composure and even positioning (certainly compared to McT) puts them both to shame. He actually tries to play as a midfielder too rather than whatever chaosball Scott plays - where for every arrival in the box, you give away many more chances or fail to progress moves because of SMCT's hiding from the ball or non-availability to force a turnover and then to receive the ball from team-mates - and is sprightlier than Amrabat as well as quicker at progressing the ball without going all Bruno and hitting speculative punts. The only player who's looked similarly composed this season in CM is.... Dan Gore against Palace's weakened line=up in the cup (and i'd also be giving him minutes off the bench compared to some of these other jokers tbh).

ETH may end up losing his job with the new regime for many reasons, but a major one will be that he didn't identify the necessity of building his midfield and core of the side around players with this kind of profile - intelligent, mobile, able to take the ball under pressure and find a pass that isn't just 30 yards back to Onana or utterly speculative - which oversight has seen us get overwhelmed in so many games so far and reliant upon moments....

I am nobody but how does a coach like ETH and all these guys before him not realize the importance of a midfield? I don't get it.

I thought when ETH got in Casemiro and Eriksen, he understood and this summer didn't buy any major CM cuz we have Mainoo but then he goes on to play McT every game.

I give up. I fecking give up.

 

[Adnan]

I'm very concerned about Newcastle's hard running through midfield because it's backed with quality. Bruno Guimaraes might be the best CM in the league by now and Joelinton is very adept at using his size and athleticism well before actually using the ball well. It's backed by hard and clever runners and it's a minefield to play through.

I don't have concerns with Mainoo handling that pace and pressure, but I do have concerns about whoever is in there with him, be it Amrabat or McTominay being able to cope, and in McTominay's case, not being up to speed with what's going on at any time. Can Amrabat play 1 and 2-touch to any degree of competency? Because if he can't, Mainoo is on his own no matter who is starting next to him.

Agree about Hannibal, btw, but I don't even count him for that game as there's no way he'll get the gig.

How far away do you think Gore is? I see you didn't mention him, any particular reason?

I agree, the Newcastle game is going to be very difficult. We've got to match their intensity which I'm not sure our players can. I think McTominay is going to play and eventhough his positional awareness and general ability on the ball is lacking, he's someone that can potentially win duels. I think he's our worst CM when it comes to in-possession play but someone who has the running power to match Newcastle's high tempo game. And I fully understand that people don't rate McTominay and I can see why, but at this juncture he's potentially a option in midfield due to his size and running power. And once we get to a point where we can refresh team with new recruits, then McTominay won't be a fixture any longer imo.

But I'd like to see us go with a Mainoo, Amrabat double pivot with Hannibal as the AM and Bruno on the right. Bruno doesn't have the running power in the AM role and makes us vulnerable when pressing teams who have players who can surge forward with the ball. But I don't think that will happen and McTominay will likely play for the reasons stated above. Newcastle even use 6'9, Dan Burn to win second balls to help them progress the ball by pushing him further up the pitch. It seems like he might be injured currently but their threat is going to be obvious and they will look to out-fight and out-run us and the likes of Bruno Guimaraes will then have the the platform to make the difference from midfield.

I created a thread on Dan Gore in the youth section in early 2022, and likened him to Nico Barella. Whether he turns into a similar player or even makes it into the first team as a regular starter remains to be seen. But he's another young midfielder who is press resistant and can carry the ball through the thirds. And in the game today where the EPL is being dominated by teams who want to play out of a press and exert zonal and positional control higher up the pitch in a high line, it's very important to have players who are comfortable at receiving passes under pressure. And Dan Gore is definitely one of those players with a few more coming up behind him from the u18s.

 

[KD6-3.7]

It would be so much nicer if our younger players like Mainoo and Garnacho actually had good players to learn from. The club is a terrible place for young raw players to develop right nos because once they come into the first team there is to much expectation placed on them to perform.

 

[Rockets Redglare]

I am nobody but how does a coach like ETH and all these guys before him not realize the importance of a midfield? I don't get it.

I thought when ETH got in Casemiro and Eriksen, he understood and this summer didn't buy any major CM cuz we have Mainoo but then he goes on to play McT every game.

I give up. I fecking give up.

That was the plan but Mainoo has been injured for the entire season, he’s literally just came back last week.

 

[bosnian_red]

I am nobody but how does a coach like ETH and all these guys before him not realize the importance of a midfield? I don't get it.

I thought when ETH got in Casemiro and Eriksen, he understood and this summer didn't buy any major CM cuz we have Mainoo but then he goes on to play McT every game.

I give up. I fecking give up.

Mainoo has been injured, casemiro is injured, Eriksen is injured, mount is injured. Injuries mean players are unavailable and others have to play.

 

[Adnan]

That was the plan but Mainoo has been injured for the entire season, he’s literally just came back last week.

Agreed. Ten Hag is the only coach we've had post Fergie who is trying to construct a midfield. But the issue wasn't only the midfield because the GK, CBs and striker areas was also a issue.

 

[Matt851]

Agreed. Ten Hag is the only coach we've had post Fergie who is trying to construct a midfield. But the issue wasn't only the midfield because the GK, CBs and striker areas was also a issue.

He is doing a pretty poor job of constructing a midfield though

 

[Adnan]

He is doing a pretty poor job of constructing a midfield though

He really isn't because if you understood the squad he walked into and how numerous positions in the team were neglected for far too long then going from a double pivot of Fred and McTominay to options like Mainoo, Amrabat and Casemiro is a big upgrade with room for further improvement.

 

[Mingus]

He is doing a pretty poor job of constructing a midfield though

We have a lot of promising young midfielders. They won't all come fully formed from the academy (unlike Mainoo seemingly) so we have to be patient.
It's normally unwise to play too many raw youth players in the same team but Mainoo is anything but raw.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Say it quietly but he's been really good in what he's shown so far. Shouldn't have been made to be put in that situation for the third goal if Lindelof didn't decide to simply walk away from his position for no reason at all.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Need more players of his ilk in midfield.

 

[arnie_ni]

I am not sure, I thought he followed the run well, it took the attacker to take a perfect touch and then great shot to get that goal from tight angle. It's not like he got away from him, he just executed both actions perfectly, I think the defender is hardly to blame in that situation.

I'd need to see it again but he also got across the guy shooting and a better keeper that is better judging angles might (might) save that. It was the only place the shot had a chance to go otherwise mainoo blocks it.

 

[criticalanalysis]

No I don't think so. In that kind of situation defender can only make it difficult for the player. But if he pushed on him he would risk a penalty, if he got ahead of him there would be a risk that he stops and goes centrally. I think he made a good decision, the attacker had an awful lot to do to score from this situation and that's pretty much all that Mainoo could do imo. But on the other hand, if this was any other of our "midfielders" it's almost guaranteed that the Gala player would've been bullied.
The player first touch takes him away from the defender and second is a shot on the short post, it's just perfectly executed tbh. I would be surprised if any defender risks a tackle in that situation.
">View post on imgur.com

Agree, the issue isn't with Mainoo, see below.

I'd need to see it again but he also got across the guy shooting and a better keeper that is better judging angles might (might) save that. It was the only place the shot had a chance to go otherwise mainoo blocks it.

I explained this in the Lindelof thread below. IMO Mainoo did as well as he could have in most 'normal' situations. By normal I meant he actively tracked his runner and didn't let him go through on goal one-on-one. However, what let him down was two things 1) Lindelof going walkies and 2) whilst it was a brilliant strike, I don't think Onana covered himself well with that poor position to be beaten near post.

The only way Mainoo could have done better is if he telepathically knew Lindelof was going to completely vacate his position and then probably run harder/quicker but that's not a 'normal' recovery. Lindelof was idiotic to go that far wide to cover a low danger chance.

Same old story. Gets by with not much criticism because he's so inoffensive in every single way. Not passionate, not physical, not emotional, not proactive, not involved, not anything positive generally. He was genuinely the most uninvolved player on the pitch (along with McTominay) but 'didn't make a mistake' is what he's usually excused by some blinded posters.



What the feck was he actually trying to do here?! Moving out from his central position to cover a potentially one-in-ten chance genius through ball..into the channels?

No, as per usual he passed off his defensive duties in the most important part of the pitch to suddenly be aggressive into no man's land. He really sold a big fat massive one to Mainoo there. The 'funny' thing is even if that ball did arrive into the channels, he wouldn't have done a single fecking thing. TIme and time again, he backed away and let the opposition have the ball. There were at least 2-3 times he could have nicked the ball or got a better clearance but he just stood off. With Shaw going walkies, instead of stepping up and trying to cover that side, he just did nothing.

Him and Shaw are a nightmare on that left side in pressing, covering and defending. Absolute wet fart.

 

[The United]

I was hoping he was not a one-game wonder. He was pretty good in this game as well.

But I think we need a destroyer-type or defensively sound midfielder for him. Leaving him alone in the deepest midfield position would not help him or the team.

 

[Ali Dia]

where he cleanly knicked the ball on the left wing where he had no right to come away with it really? He’s really good. Silky in his play and movement. Hopefully we can create the environment for him and players like him to hit the heights.

 

[El Jefe]

It’s hard no too get a little carried away with him. It’s honestly maddening how long it’s taken to have a player of his type in our team.

We’ve either had technical players who can’t run or defend or players that can get about the pitch and defend but aren’t good enough on the ball.

As others have said we should have a few more players of him type and hopefully that’s something we address this summer.

 

[Matt851]

He really isn't because if you understood the squad he walked into and how numerous positions in the team were neglected for far too long then going from a double pivot of Fred and McTominay to options like Mainoo, Amrabat and Casemiro is a big upgrade with room for further improvement.

I am not sure you can give him credit for mainoo coming through the academy. The fact is he has spent the best part of £160m on midfielders and still has mctominay in his best midfield. Casemiro looks ready for Saudi and amrabat just looks crap. We would have been better off keeping Fred over trying to play mount as an 8

 

[MadDogg]

No I don't think so. In that kind of situation defender can only make it difficult for the player. But if he pushed on him he would risk a penalty, if he got ahead of him there would be a risk that he stops and goes centrally. I think he made a good decision, the attacker had an awful lot to do to score from this situation and that's pretty much all that Mainoo could do imo. But on the other hand, if this was any other of our "midfielders" it's almost guaranteed that the Gala player would've been bullied.
The player first touch takes him away from the defender and second is a shot on the short post, it's just perfectly executed tbh. I would be surprised if any defender risks a tackle in that situation.
">View post on imgur.com

There's no issue with Mainoo not blocking the shot or tackling him at that point. The small amount of blame that he gets is because he was a bit slow to cover the run in the first place. He was originally in the stronger position, but Akturkoglu had a burst of speed that got him in front and Mainoo was just slightly slow to react. It's definitely not something that I'd say was Mainoo's fault, but at the same time I'd hope that he'd watch that back and think "I can do better next time".

Otherwise I thought he started slowly for the first five minutes or so, but then looked very good for the rest of it.

 

[Rossa]

Could have done a better job tracking the scorer of their 3rd goal. Looked composed in possession.

Yes, but that was also an unreal touch - not sure the same player will have a similar touch this season.

 

[mikeyt]

Composure and presence. Still young, will have bad games, will have great games but clearly looks the future of our midfield

 

[Rossa]

He has a really low centre of gravity which gets him out of tight spots very often. He also looks to have both pretty good acceleration and speed for a central midfielder - is that so?

 

[Name Changed]

He did ok. He looks miles better than Ambrabat.

 

[Chaky_Best]

Would like to see him in midfield with Casemiro, where he would be less alone and Case guide him a bit.

Good entry during a difficult period.

If he plays this weekend, it would be difficult

 

[NotoriousISSY]

Another decent cameo.

I can see he’s been pinpointed with some responsibility for the equaliser, but I don’t understand what Lindelof is doing and the touch was incredible. Of the three goals, you don’t mind conceding that one from a technical point of view.

 

[Buster15]

Would like to see him in midfield with Casemiro, where he would be less alone and Case guide him a bit.

Good entry during a difficult period.

If he plays this weekend, it would be difficult

Agree with that. Playing alongside Casemiro would certainly be beneficial for Mainoo as he learns the top flight game.

 

[kundalini]

Having rewatched their 3rd goal several times, Mainoo was poor defensively, as were Garnacho and Shaw. Both Mainoo and Garnacho should have been goal-side of the players they were marking so that if their direct opponent started to accelerate, they were well positioned to track the run.

 

[Remember the geese]

People expect too much. He isn't going to be perfect positionally. He isn't some natural DM. His natural abilities lend themselves to being more creative and progressive in nature, rather than defensive. He should be partnered with a proper holding DM.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

18 years old. Ridiculous.

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[DavelinaJolie]

He was fine and looked composed but not sure why there is so much exaggeration about how "unreal" he was.

Guess it's part of the honeymoon period.

I'm guessing because composure is something we've lacked. Someone being calm on the ball looks revelatory.

I agree, he has played well and looked solid last night and adds something into the midfield we've been sorely lacking, but I'm going to hold my horses on going overboard.

 

[aeh1991]

Says much if an 18 yo is regarded the best performing MF. I hope we can get Case back in form so we can finally have some real quality in the center.

 

[Zed 101]

TBH we might be over reacting to Mainoo but lets face it there is so little else to be positive about, a player that shows any kind of spark above the meh shite deserves all the plaudits right now

 

[Adnan]

I am not sure you can give him credit for mainoo coming through the academy. The fact is he has spent the best part of £160m on midfielders and still has mctominay in his best midfield. Casemiro looks ready for Saudi and amrabat just looks crap. We would have been better off keeping Fred over trying to play mount as an 8

Yes, you can give credit to ten Hag for attempting to develop Kobbie Mainoo a young player that was brought to the club by John Murtough.

And Fred was a very average player who should never have been bought from Shakhtar Donetsk imo. He wasn't a deeper lying midfielder and neither was he a player who was good in a advanced midfield position. Just running around in a poor midfield without having the requisite abilities in possession wasn't anywhere near enough to challenge the teams who had far superior midfielders. Getting rid of the likes of Fred was absolutely the correct move and the Mount signing doesn't have any bearing on Fred because Mount is someone who is utilised high in midfield and has won a champions league whilst Fred isn't really a deeper lying mid or someone that can play in a advanced midfield role and didn't have the physical power of players like Tchouameni, Amadou Onana or Lucas Gourna-Douath to make a difference in that regard. To progress as a team, players like Fred need to be moved on quickly and once they're moved on it opens up the opportunity to actually improve the team. I'm not a fan of McTominay at all and want to see us upgrade on him as soon as possible. But at this current juncture, he's being played due to his physicality and running power, I don't like it but I think come the summer window, we'll sign someone like Amadou Onana who will potentially give us everything McTominay and Fred gave us with a little bit extra.

Amrabat is a loan signing and we only ended up signing him on the last day of the window after we'd tried to sign Amadou Onana and then Youssouff Fofana from Monaco on loan according to reports. So if the money was there and McTominay agreed to join Fulham or West Ham, then I'm sure we would've signed one of the two aforementioned players.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Proper CM. He has qualities we have ignored for no appear reason over the last 10-12 years and many of us have wanted to see added to the team. Took a youth product to bring it.

 

[luke511]

Yes, you can give credit to ten Hag for attempting to develop Kobbie Mainoo a young player that was brought to the club by John Murtough.

And Fred was a very average player who should never have been bought from Shakhtar Donetsk imo. He wasn't a deeper lying midfielder and neither was he a player who was good in a advanced midfield position. Just running around in a poor midfield without having the requisite abilities in possession wasn't anywhere near enough to challenge the teams who had far superior midfielders. Getting rid of the likes of Fred was absolutely the correct move and the Mount signing doesn't have any bearing on Fred because Mount is someone who is utilised high in midfield and has won a champions league whilst Fred isn't really a deeper lying mid or someone that can play in a advanced midfield role and didn't have the physical power of players like Tchouameni, Amadou Onana or Lucas Gourna-Douath to make a difference in that regard. To progress as a team, players like Fred need to be moved on quickly and once they're moved on it opens up the opportunity to actually improve the team. I'm not a fan of McTominay at all and want to see us upgrade on him as soon as possible. But at this current juncture, he's being played due to his physicality and running power, I don't like it but I think come the summer window, we'll sign someone like Amadou Onana who will potentially give us everything McTominay and Fred gave us with a little bit extra.

Amrabat is a loan signing and we only ended up signing him on the last day of the window after we'd tried to sign Amadou Onana and then Youssouff Fofana from Monaco on loan according to reports. So if the money was there and McTominay agreed to join Fulham or West Ham, then I'm sure we would've signed one of the two aforementioned players.

Getting rid of Fred was the correct move if we replaced him with a suitable no.8, which we didn't. We were better off keeping Fred than buying Mount, with all factors considered like poor form, a year left on his contract, injury issues and positional history. Mount's defensive work as a forward is strong but isn't close to Fred's ability when operating as an 8. We've definitely missed him this year, he's a useful player when he has a suitable 6 behind to let him roam. There were plenty of better options out there for us to replace him with, we did very poorly this summer in regards to midfield.

Also didn't we reject West Ham's £30 million offer for McTominay? I don't think it got as far as McTominay having the option to reject them.

 

[Adnan]

Getting rid of Fred was the correct move if we replaced him with a suitable no.8, which we didn't. We were better off keeping Fred than buying Mount, with all factors considered like poor form, a year left on his contract, injury issues and positional history. Mount's defensive work as a forward is strong but isn't close to Fred's ability when operating as an 8. We've definitely missed him this year, he's a useful player when he has a suitable 6 behind to let him roam. There were plenty of better options out there for us to replace him with, we did very poorly this summer in regards to midfield.

Also didn't we reject West Ham's £30 million offer for McTominay? I don't think it got as far as McTominay having the option to reject them.

Getting rid of Fred was the correct move due opening up spots in midfield for the youngsters like Mainoo and possibly Hannibal. And Mainoo and Hannibal's potential in both the #6 and #8 role is of much higher potential than Fred who is a poor man's Amadou Onana or Aurelien Tchouameni and we paid a premium price for such mediocrity. Mason Mount wasn't bought as a #8 but rather he's someone who starts high whilst the likes of Fred and McTominay were being utilised as starting low in midfieid and going higher centrally. Mount didn't have any bearing on Fred's position in the team but Mainoo and Hannibal definitely played a part in selling Fred imo. And if you remember how we got slaughtered at Anfield last season then you just have to analyse the game to see how Liverpool destroyed both Bruno and Fred with their superior physicality and were cutting through us so easily. Bruno capitulated in that game and threw the towel in with Fred just demonstrating that Liverpool had the superior players both technically and physically.

Yes, United were said to have rejected a £30m offer for McTominay from West Ham and were said to want closer to £40m due to the intended replacement Amadou Onana costing considerably more. Fulham then came very close to getting a deal done but McTominay refused to join them per Fabrizio Romano.

Manchester United midfielder Scott McTominay turned down a deadline day move to Fulham, Fabrizio Romano reports.

https://www.unitedinfocus.com/news/...move-to-replace-55m-ace-player-rejected-deal/