2.78-0.43. We’ve had a penalty which inflates our XG but even so, that was a very good half.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Interesting, not surprised by our xG but not what I expected at all for Chelsea given their two near misses.
Good setup, right personnel picked.
How is xG so low - McT had two shots from about 1 yard with the double save, Antony had the shot from 2 yards which hit Silva's foot, we had a penalty, we scored....
How is xG so low - McT had two shots from about 1 yard with the double save, Antony had the shot from 2 yards which hit Silva's foot, we had a penalty, we scored....
How am I cherry picking stats? You said, and I quote:
How can that possibly be true when their results under Howe that season were P27, W13, D5, L9 for a total of 44 points?
In the same time frame:
Manchester City: P27, W22, D4, L1 for a total of 70 points
Liverpool: P27, W22, D4, L1 for a total of 70 points
Tottenham: P27, W17, D4, L6 for a total of 55 points
Arsenal: P27, W16, D1, L10 for a total of 49 points
Chelsea: P27, W13, D9, L5 for a total of 48 points
It's impressive that they had the 6th best form, but 6th isn't "the best".
Howe has done a good job with Newcastle, but he's not an example of a manager working with a "shit CEO, shit DoF, shit scouts and weak squad mentality. Whilst needing to win and challenge for top 4 and cups from season 1" which you claimed him to be.
His goal for season one was keep them up. His goal for season two was a top half finish. He'll likely get away with finishing outside of the top four this season. He's already working without the same results-based pressure Ten Hag has.
When Howe came in, it was with a completely new structure (CEO, DoF, scouts) and he was afforded four first team players, at a cost of £90 million in the January window, as well as a fifth on loan.
To quote you again:
Howe's record "before even spending a penny" was P8, W1, D3, L4. Extending that to the end of the transfer window makes it P10, W2, D4, L4. They ended the transfer window still in the relegation zone.
It's almost like he needed to spend "a penny" or two before he was able to stop the "turmoil".
Then there's the small matter of a further £168 million being spent on another five first team signings last season, and another £128 million so far this season. All of this done within a proper transfer structure, which Ten Hag doesn't have.
Newcastle might not have "signed the likes of Casemiro" but they've spent £40 million on Guimaraes, £35 million on Botman, £63 million on Isak, £45 million on Gordon, £55 million on Tonali, £38 million on Barnes, and £35 million on Livramento, so it's not exactly like they've been scraping around the bargain bin.
Howe has done well to get a tune out of the likes of Almiron and Joelinton, but let's not pretend he hasn't been able to surround them with practically an entire new team, which will have certainly helped matters.
To requote a specific bit:
Properly backing a manager doesn't mean giving him free-reign to spend whatever he likes on whoever he likes. In fact, doing so is a sign of a shite structure and a complete lack of proper support. It's this lack of structure that prompted the other poster to bring up the CEO, DoF and scouts.
It's pretty much complete bollocks that he wanted total control over transfers. He just didn't want to be part of a club where players could be signed without his input. The rest of the quote, that is always conveniently forgotten, is: " I don't want to be the sole ruler, I stand for cooperation"
He's part of the process, and it seems a near certainty that we've given him too much power in that process, which is just another example of how shit the system we have in place is.
Even to humour you and agree that he did insist on full control, we absolutely shouldn't have appointed a manager that wanted that much power, and if we have, it is a sign of a shit structure that isn't set up to support the manager.
And here we reach the issue with a good chunk of the Ten-Hag-Out brigade. I don't think that Eddie Howe at Newcastle is a comparable situation to Ten Hag at United, and that means I think "Ten Hag is the best manager around"?
How you've reached the conclusion that I think "Ten Hag is the best manager around and nobody could have done better" from a post pointing out that Eddie Howe isn't working in the same conditions as Ten Hag is, frankly, mental.
I'd be very surprised if he's still our manager in the new year given our performances so far this season and the run of games we've got coming up. There are definitely things he could have done better (and that includes whatever contribution he's had to our recruitment), but there have also been a number of things pretty much actively hindering him (again, including the recruitment structure) and will continue to hinder whoever replaces him unless things are allowed to drastically change. These things include implementing a proper footballing structure to get a proper handle on recruitment and being allowed to gut the squad of the players that aren't good enough and/or have a weak mentality.
It can be simultaneously true that Ten Hag hasn't been given the tools to succeed whilst also not necessarily being up to the task.
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Does the McTominay one count double?
Well there were two attempts at goal.
I genuinely feel for him.
Everton, the 3-3 CL game and this have been full of chances. It’s just a weird set up where teams can cut through us pretty easily but at least there’s some entertainment to be had. Our pressing and forcing errors has been excellent.
Antony and Garnacho working hard. It makes a big difference.
Antony and Garnacho working hard. It makes a big difference.
You think we're creating these chances against Liverpool at Anfield?
My problem isn't the fact we've conceded chances, but it's the type of chances. 2v1s and 3v2s shouldn't be happening.
He has done a poor job, but his players are also losers who seriously lack bottle. Such poor finishers and composure time and time again.
Hope not to see Rashford play for a long time and can't wait to see the back of Lindelof.
Hope not to see Rashford play for a long time and can't wait to see the back of Lindelof.
We are a mid table team under him this season by every metric. Comfortably.
Samid has hated him from the start, likely because he's the guy who properly replaced Solskjaer.
Skills just shits on everything to do with the club. It's beyond tedious at this stage.
I'd ban both if I had the chance
Apart from points obviously
Don't know about Samid but Skills has been right more often than not when it comes to the club's decision making, even if it's usually not what you want to hear.
what?We're currently 8th. Either way though we're playing nowhere close to the quality you'd even expect for a team any higher all season.Apart from points obviously
Has he feck, its just on the occasions that he is right that he repeats his point so much that it seems like he's right more often than he is.
Garnacho has been a lot better than Rashford in any game this season.
We did enough in the first half to lead by 2-3 goals. What I meant by saying that is this kind of performance will get you a win more often than not, so even if we end up losing due to unlucky goals etc. it will still be a better one that for example Everton game which in most cases will result in a draw/loss.
Most teams would struggle with the injuries we’ve had and off the field problems.
Why can't he just replicate what he was doing last season which saw us perform brilliantly against Barcelona and beat City also.
Sometimes you have injuries, sometimes players lose form etc..
We’ve been even better this half
It’s quite clear ETH has not lost the dressing room. He may have lost some players like Sancho or Rashford, but it’s obvious the vast majority of the team is still pulling in the same direction.
Let them hate.
Really happy with that game. So much better
My man…
Good performance tonight. Should've scored a lot more than two.
That's a big result, better performance nothing groundbreaking but have to give credit where it's due
We’ve beaten the ghost of Chelsea, relax. People will soon swing the other way when it’s Bayern & Liverpool.
A win is a win. This has more than a touch of the Spurs game prior to Ole leaving.
That was so refreshing. I don't remember the last time I actually enjoyed a United game.
It was a lot of fun with the ball back and forth and we created a lot of chances to win this with even more goals. We also defended well at the end.
I missed having fun watching United. More of this please. Let's not return to shit the next game.
It was a lot of fun with the ball back and forth and we created a lot of chances to win this with even more goals. We also defended well at the end.
I missed having fun watching United. More of this please. Let's not return to shit the next game.
3 points behind City
feel like we really start to click now! Very good performance.
I thought we were mid table?3 points behind City
Difficult night for the haters.
30 shots, dominating possession, dominating the game. Good pressing, intensive attacking. Good performance by Antony, two goals by McTominay after tons of post "oh my god, McTominay starts, we'll surely lose now", incredible team spirit.
I reckon this thread won't grow by more than 2 pages in the next days.
30 shots, dominating possession, dominating the game. Good pressing, intensive attacking. Good performance by Antony, two goals by McTominay after tons of post "oh my god, McTominay starts, we'll surely lose now", incredible team spirit.
I reckon this thread won't grow by more than 2 pages in the next days.
Better today, deserved win. Needs to tighten up defensively and off the ball - Chelsea got through too easily
So I’ve heard mateI thought we were mid table?