City Football Group are 2 points clear of Real at the top. 7 points clear of Barca.
Can Daley Blind and company do a Leicester?
Can Daley Blind and company do a Leicester?
Can Girona win La Liga? | 115 charges' trophies to be exhibited in Girona
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
No
/thread
They have as much chance as Villa do of winning the PL.
Can they? Yes, absolutely. Will they? Probably not.
If they do win it with the mere investment compared to Manchester, then real madrid and Barca will know how it feels and how doomed they are.
If they have no injuries, yes it's a possibility
If they do, i solely blame Perez.
Could have had a real striker, if he didn't spend all summer dreaming about Mbappe, Bellingham doing so well is Ancelotti's invention btw, not Perez.
Could have had a real striker, if he didn't spend all summer dreaming about Mbappe, Bellingham doing so well is Ancelotti's invention btw, not Perez.
They'll take it to the final day where they score 2 goals in added time to win it and Dovbyk will take his shirt off and run around waving it.
Why was Madrid so heavily favored at the start of the season against Barca and even Atletico according to this model? Makes no sense whatsoever.City Football Group are 2 points clear of Real at the top. 7 points clear of Barca.
Can Daley Blind and company do a Leicester?
The head of La Liga would probably have a full scale meltdown if they did.
Nope.
Highly unlikely, but with Daley Blind, anything is possible.
Can someone explain to me, excuse ignorance but do the owners of city own Girona too?
If that is the case they may not win this year but they probably will in the next 4-5 years…….
If that is the case they may not win this year but they probably will in the next 4-5 years…….
Well they've 'owned' them for the past 6 and they've not come close yet
Ah ok fair enough thanks for the reply.
Wonder if they keep this up a few more euros will be thrown their way in the future.
10+ years of cheating should do the trick. They’d still be behind Barca with that though!
Unlikely, I don't know if there's any good articles on it but read up what they've done with Troyes if there is, they've basically ran them into the ground
Yes, absolutely. From an accelerationist point of view, it may be better for us too. Girona breaking the Real/Barca duopoly may persuade the governing authorities to finally address state ownership of clubs.
Yes. No European tournament to tire them out during the week and Madrid looks like a casualty ward. Also, teams won’t play them like it’s final which is not a benefit RM has.
Atletico Madrid 66/1
Leicester 5000/1
Girona 1000/1
Aston Villa 150/1
Imagine having 4 title winners this astonishingly outlandish in the space of a decade. And yes, those were the odds you could get on Atletico. Given I don't think much comes close, in the big elite leagues at least, in previous, god knows how many years, to even the Atletico one, forget Leicester the other 2
Leicester 5000/1
Girona 1000/1
Aston Villa 150/1
Imagine having 4 title winners this astonishingly outlandish in the space of a decade. And yes, those were the odds you could get on Atletico. Given I don't think much comes close, in the big elite leagues at least, in previous, god knows how many years, to even the Atletico one, forget Leicester the other 2
Why are they at the top?
Unlikely but I fancy them to get top 4. Have they ever been in the CL? What will happen if they do get CL, will City not be able to go in it next year?
I would say no but really with the level of this Barcelona/Atlético they can keep the distance in case Madrid forgets a little bit about la liga, which will happen from the quarterfinals of the Champions League.
Maybe now but progressively teams will play them with more eagerness, and surely the smaller teams will receive an "extra" to make an effort.
Nah, I reckon Atletico will win it
It's because they have more points than the other teams.
If you want to see a thriving 3-1-6 system like the one Ten Hag is trying to implement, watch Girona. They have the same set up, albeit with vastly different results I will explain here.
The primary difference is that Girona’s gaffer Michel has coached a system based on controlling games through possession and Ten Hag’s one, in his words, is based on using transitions as the best form of attack. As a result, the outcomes are different.
Girona’s build-up
Girona and United both employ a system based on 3 players in the 10 position (two CMs and usually a left-back). The difference is that Girona have far better tactics for getting the ball to their 10s than we do.
Girona are less rigid positionally than us. Michel gives his players a lot more freedom to move according to where a “plus one” is needed in order to create an overload. As a result, they aren’t as wedded to the 3-1-6 as we are. For example, their inverted left-back, Miguel Gutierrez may drop in alongside their sole DM (Aleix Garcia) if necessary to aid with progressing the ball through the middle to form a 3-2-5 which creates better passing angles.
Alternatively, one of their CMs can drop in to form a pivot and to either give the back 3 more passing options, or to bring out one of the opposing midfielders from his position and thus open up a passing lane into players in the forward positions.
Another tactic they have according how many opposing forwards are pressing is to drop Garcia between the defenders to create a 4 vs 3 overload that would leave one of the wide defenders free and allow him to step into midfield and progress the ball.
Girona’s players are also very good at rotating positions and covering for each-other, which is a testament to how well drilled and organised they are. This is a crucial aspect of how they move the opponent around in order to create space, while still keeping the 3-1-6 / 3-2-5 shape depending on the state of the game and how many opposing forwards are pressing.
For example, if Aleix Garcia (DM) drops into the back line, Miguel Gutierrez (LB) might invert to become the DM and then Daley Blind (LCB) might push up into the left half-space that Gutierrez usually occupies. Girona are all about creating numerical superiority all over the pitch, which is why, if you watch their games, it is often like they are playing with a man more.
United’s build-up
By contrast, United are very rigid under Ten Hag’s positional structure, and we often seem outnumbered. There are so many times that our three 10s - two attacking midfielders (Bruno and McTominay/Mount) plus the left-back - are stood behind two of the opposition’s defensive lines and our defenders and DM cannot take the risk and pass the ball to them as the passing lanes are closed.
We then end up pumping it long or into the channel for a low percentage change of forcing a turnover closer to the opponent’s goal. Alternatively, we try to progress the ball from wide positions, but this isn’t easy as the touchline is ultimately the opponentbest defender and limits your options.
In fairness to Girona, they have Daley Blind who would be doing what Lisandro is doing for us now. As we have seen from Blind, he is an expert at zinging passes between the lines for forward players to recieve in dangerous central positions.
Why Girona are better than United at going direct
Girona do go direct from time to time, but there is a difference between how they do it and we do it. An example of this would be their third goal today away at Barcelona.
They went long from a 3-2-5 position that brought out more Barcelona players for the high-press. Barcelona basically had their front 3 on Girona’s back 3 and two furthest CMs on Girona’s pivot. This meant Barcelona’s pivot had to move forward to back up the press, which they felt safe to do so as it left Barcelona’s defenders 3 vs 3 with Girona’s forward line.
The goalkeeper punted it forward to the right where Girona’s CF (Stuani) and RW (Valery) were followed by Barcelona defenders. Savio stayed far on the left which created a big gap between Kounde (RCB) and Barcelona’s other defenders. From Stuani’s flick on, Valery simply ran in the space and scored after Kounde was slow to intercept because he was wary of leaving Savio free.
On the other hand, we often go long from a 3-1-6 where the opponent is wary of commiting too many players to pressing us high up the pitch because: a) they don’t need to as our ball progression is poor and b) our three 10s do not make movements to drag the opponents out of their shape.
Our three 10s often stay still due to our positional rigidity which plays into the opponent’s hands with regards to maintaining their shape. This ensures that it is both harder for us to win second balls, and even if we do win the second ball, we aren’t finding players in space against a disorganised shape that would enable us to, as intended, create chances from turnovers high up the pitch.
Girona: attacking with patience and possession
One of Girona’s main tactics for chance creation is to overload the right to bring the opponent across before switching it over to the left in space for their winger Savio to stand up the opposing full-back one on one. In these situations, Miguel Gutierrez is also incredible when making underlapping runs. If you get a chance to watch the highlights of the Barcelona game, you will see how many chances he got (he also scored) by creating overloads on that side.
The key difference between Girona and us is that they are a lot less vertical and direct, and by extension, more compact. Last season, they had more of a destroyer in the 6 position in the form of Oriol Romeu and, as a result, played more directly in the hope that he would mop up.
They in fact showed the same vulnerabilites to transitions that we did and conceded 55 goals, which was the fifth worst of 20 teams. As of now, they have conceded 20, which is not great but it is the 8th best defensive record. They also have the most goals this season. So, what has been the difference?
They lost Romeu and Aleix Garcia, who is not a great tackler or defender took his position as the #6 in the team. This forced Girona to be more patient with the ball and not force risky passes as they want to hide Garcia’s weaknesses in defending large spaces in isolation and speedy counter-attacks. Compare that to us having our #6, whether it is Cas, Eriksen, Mainoo, Amrabat or McTominay, being tasked with essentially mopping up a burst dam with a tissue.
Girona are especially very compact on their right-side. Players are usually in close proand they create triangles. Of course, one of the attacking benefits of this has already been stated: it brings the opposition across to create space out wide on the far side for Savio and Gutierrez. This also facilitates overloads on the right for better crossing opportunities and cutbacks.
Moreover, the compactness of players on the right means that if the ball is lost, they are in good positions to close the space quickly and efficiently to make it harder for the opponent to play through them.
United: direct attacks and vulnerability to transitions
By contrast, at United under Ten Hag, while we attempt to create overloads, the compactness is not there. If we lose the ball, we are easy to counter against. This risk is multiplied by the fact that we are not patient on the ball. We try to force the play with risky passes. We are too direct. Due to our poor and rigid shape in the build-up, we are seldom in positions to even sustain pressure or break down a parked bus because we go direct too early.
Then once our attack inevitably breaks down, we are played through either because a) our players are too far apart from each-other or b) our man-oriented press is moved around by the opponent to open up space in the middle for them to charge through.
TL/DR / Summary
The primary difference is that Girona’s gaffer Michel has coached a system based on controlling games through possession and Ten Hag’s one, in his words, is based on using transitions as the best form of attack. As a result, the outcomes are different.
Girona’s build-up
Girona and United both employ a system based on 3 players in the 10 position (two CMs and usually a left-back). The difference is that Girona have far better tactics for getting the ball to their 10s than we do.
Girona are less rigid positionally than us. Michel gives his players a lot more freedom to move according to where a “plus one” is needed in order to create an overload. As a result, they aren’t as wedded to the 3-1-6 as we are. For example, their inverted left-back, Miguel Gutierrez may drop in alongside their sole DM (Aleix Garcia) if necessary to aid with progressing the ball through the middle to form a 3-2-5 which creates better passing angles.
Alternatively, one of their CMs can drop in to form a pivot and to either give the back 3 more passing options, or to bring out one of the opposing midfielders from his position and thus open up a passing lane into players in the forward positions.
Another tactic they have according how many opposing forwards are pressing is to drop Garcia between the defenders to create a 4 vs 3 overload that would leave one of the wide defenders free and allow him to step into midfield and progress the ball.
Girona’s players are also very good at rotating positions and covering for each-other, which is a testament to how well drilled and organised they are. This is a crucial aspect of how they move the opponent around in order to create space, while still keeping the 3-1-6 / 3-2-5 shape depending on the state of the game and how many opposing forwards are pressing.
For example, if Aleix Garcia (DM) drops into the back line, Miguel Gutierrez (LB) might invert to become the DM and then Daley Blind (LCB) might push up into the left half-space that Gutierrez usually occupies. Girona are all about creating numerical superiority all over the pitch, which is why, if you watch their games, it is often like they are playing with a man more.
United’s build-up
By contrast, United are very rigid under Ten Hag’s positional structure, and we often seem outnumbered. There are so many times that our three 10s - two attacking midfielders (Bruno and McTominay/Mount) plus the left-back - are stood behind two of the opposition’s defensive lines and our defenders and DM cannot take the risk and pass the ball to them as the passing lanes are closed.
We then end up pumping it long or into the channel for a low percentage change of forcing a turnover closer to the opponent’s goal. Alternatively, we try to progress the ball from wide positions, but this isn’t easy as the touchline is ultimately the opponentbest defender and limits your options.
In fairness to Girona, they have Daley Blind who would be doing what Lisandro is doing for us now. As we have seen from Blind, he is an expert at zinging passes between the lines for forward players to recieve in dangerous central positions.
Why Girona are better than United at going direct
Girona do go direct from time to time, but there is a difference between how they do it and we do it. An example of this would be their third goal today away at Barcelona.
They went long from a 3-2-5 position that brought out more Barcelona players for the high-press. Barcelona basically had their front 3 on Girona’s back 3 and two furthest CMs on Girona’s pivot. This meant Barcelona’s pivot had to move forward to back up the press, which they felt safe to do so as it left Barcelona’s defenders 3 vs 3 with Girona’s forward line.
The goalkeeper punted it forward to the right where Girona’s CF (Stuani) and RW (Valery) were followed by Barcelona defenders. Savio stayed far on the left which created a big gap between Kounde (RCB) and Barcelona’s other defenders. From Stuani’s flick on, Valery simply ran in the space and scored after Kounde was slow to intercept because he was wary of leaving Savio free.
On the other hand, we often go long from a 3-1-6 where the opponent is wary of commiting too many players to pressing us high up the pitch because: a) they don’t need to as our ball progression is poor and b) our three 10s do not make movements to drag the opponents out of their shape.
Our three 10s often stay still due to our positional rigidity which plays into the opponent’s hands with regards to maintaining their shape. This ensures that it is both harder for us to win second balls, and even if we do win the second ball, we aren’t finding players in space against a disorganised shape that would enable us to, as intended, create chances from turnovers high up the pitch.
Girona: attacking with patience and possession
One of Girona’s main tactics for chance creation is to overload the right to bring the opponent across before switching it over to the left in space for their winger Savio to stand up the opposing full-back one on one. In these situations, Miguel Gutierrez is also incredible when making underlapping runs. If you get a chance to watch the highlights of the Barcelona game, you will see how many chances he got (he also scored) by creating overloads on that side.
The key difference between Girona and us is that they are a lot less vertical and direct, and by extension, more compact. Last season, they had more of a destroyer in the 6 position in the form of Oriol Romeu and, as a result, played more directly in the hope that he would mop up.
They in fact showed the same vulnerabilites to transitions that we did and conceded 55 goals, which was the fifth worst of 20 teams. As of now, they have conceded 20, which is not great but it is the 8th best defensive record. They also have the most goals this season. So, what has been the difference?
They lost Romeu and Aleix Garcia, who is not a great tackler or defender took his position as the #6 in the team. This forced Girona to be more patient with the ball and not force risky passes as they want to hide Garcia’s weaknesses in defending large spaces in isolation and speedy counter-attacks. Compare that to us having our #6, whether it is Cas, Eriksen, Mainoo, Amrabat or McTominay, being tasked with essentially mopping up a burst dam with a tissue.
Girona are especially very compact on their right-side. Players are usually in close proand they create triangles. Of course, one of the attacking benefits of this has already been stated: it brings the opposition across to create space out wide on the far side for Savio and Gutierrez. This also facilitates overloads on the right for better crossing opportunities and cutbacks.
Moreover, the compactness of players on the right means that if the ball is lost, they are in good positions to close the space quickly and efficiently to make it harder for the opponent to play through them.
United: direct attacks and vulnerability to transitions
By contrast, at United under Ten Hag, while we attempt to create overloads, the compactness is not there. If we lose the ball, we are easy to counter against. This risk is multiplied by the fact that we are not patient on the ball. We try to force the play with risky passes. We are too direct. Due to our poor and rigid shape in the build-up, we are seldom in positions to even sustain pressure or break down a parked bus because we go direct too early.
Then once our attack inevitably breaks down, we are played through either because a) our players are too far apart from each-other or b) our man-oriented press is moved around by the opponent to open up space in the middle for them to charge through.
TL/DR / Summary
- Girona’s 3-1-6 is far better than ours because it occaisonally becomes a 3-2-5 with a pivot to make ball progression easier.
- Girona play with more positional freedom but in a structured manner: players rotate positions while keeping the same shape.
- This allows Girona to create numerical superiority all over the pitch while also dragging the opponents out of their shape in order to create space and overloads.
- United’s position rigidity allows the opponent to defend easily with a settled defensive shape.
- Girona’s compactness on the ball also makes them far more stable than us in terms of defending transitions, with their patience aiding their ability to control the game, create chances and sustain pressure through posession.
- This has the double impact of both reducing defensive transitions and ensuring that they are best equipped to defend them.
- United’s lack of compactness makes us vulnerable to defensive transitions.
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Great post. I haven't watched Girona at all so no comments on it but the explanation of our tactics is spot on. It's a Dutch thing I guess about this rigid positioning . Problem is we are so dependent on Shaw or Lisandro for build up.
Thanks
I’m hoping that we can improve on that front with Lisandro’s return if ETH is still here but even he was drowning under the new system in his few games this season. We were much better last year when we played with pivot.
On the Dutch thing - Michel takes after Cruyff in terms of rotations and positional freedom whereas Ten Hag is more like LvG in his rigidity. Maybe we don’t have the players to play the Girona way but surely our boys are better than theirs!
Hopefully they do. It will be good for a La Liga even if they are owned by city group. Barca and Real Madrid are the biggest scum even if they are "real" clubs. A true oil club will be good for competition in the league.
Not a snowball’s chance in hell. But it’s a romantic notion.
Im your dreams they can.
This has all the makings of a 32 page thread which grows and and grows until they win the league and all the cynicism contained in the first few pages looks hilarious.
For posterity: Yes, they can and will win it. I'll be sure to quote my own post when they do.
For posterity: Yes, they can and will win it. I'll be sure to quote my own post when they do.
I hope to heck sportswashing fc* do not buy Spain as they have England. Leicester they are not.
That said Daley deserves it.
*I'm aware Real used to be pushed by Franco but he took over the country Real play in, so no, it's not the same thing.
Which will be a complete disaster.
Or try their arm at the Super League which, like 115 FC, Girona will cheerily sign up to when it realises it cannot draw major audiences without El Classico.
That said Daley deserves it.
*I'm aware Real used to be pushed by Franco but he took over the country Real play in, so no, it's not the same thing.
The likelihood is, being an oil club, they'll just completely take the league over. The likes of Real and Barca will then stop with their current model and sell up to Saudi and Qatar.
Which will be a complete disaster.
Or try their arm at the Super League which, like 115 FC, Girona will cheerily sign up to when it realises it cannot draw major audiences without El Classico.
This, people said that about city in the early days about competition etc but it broke the league and lo and behold the Saudis etc are buying in now.
Girona are basically mini city , the funniest thing about this is if they finish above city respectively , city won’t be in the CL as only one team from the same ownership group can be in the CL and league place decides which it is.
This has already been done twice by Atletico.
Jaysus. You’re going to win the league easy peasy.
One of them legendary legs of the finest Ibérico by any chance?
Atletico won the league in 2021.
Maybe, there is certainly a chance. not like Barca, or Madrid are at their prime.
Are Atletico state owned?