Club Sale | It’s done!

Status
Not open for further replies.

TrebleChamp99

Supports Liverpool
Joined
Dec 27, 2021
Messages
1,166
Merry Christmas all except those that still believe Qatar are coming in and those that don’t see this is a staggered takeover. God bless
 

Overhaul FC

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 19, 2023
Messages
285
Watching this whole disaster unfold has led to me buying a PS5, purely to play a game and be fictional manager of the club and control all transfers.

See how quickly I can oversee an overhaul of the squad and lead us to success.... I bet it will before the Glazers and Ratcliffe do.
 

Adnan

Talent Spotter
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
29,948
Location
England
Oranges038 said:
Seems like a good structure, the point Utd would be missing is all the proprietary data sets that Brentford use. They're going to have some, but is it going to be as in depth as what Brentford have access to.

.
Click to expand...
I think the key here is to be patient with the development of the data science strategy, which seems to be developing at the club. But if I'm honest with you, data will only provide marginal gains, only if we first know what we're looking for. And if one knows what they're looking for, then being backed by a data science strategy can provide marginal gains.

And in the last 10 years we've failed because there isn't a proper blue print to develop a team to play a more dominant brand of football. So for example, we want to play out from the back and play the game in the opponent's half, press high with the forwards being backed up by the midfielders, CBs and the GK, who is in a position to sweep up.

This idea or the execution of said idea has been lacking. Mourinho wants to control games against strong opponent's by controlling the game out of possession by having big physical players. We sign Pogba and he has no clue on how to utilise him because it seems Mourinho has paid more attention to Pogba's build/physique rather than the actual player that was playing for Juventus.

Solskjaer wants to play a highline like Jurgen Klopp (his own words), and goes on to add Maguire and Wan Bissaka to a team that had players like De Gea and Lindelof making up the rest defense structure. Good luck trying to play a high line with a weak rest defense. And having a weak rest defense meant the tactics were going to be limited against the bigger team hence playing in a reactive manner by having a low to mid block became our default strategy and gave rise to the McFred partnership.

So the point is that data analytics can be useful, but only if you first know what you're looking for. Because if you don't know what you're looking for, then it's like looking for a needle in a haystack.

And as far as the development of United's data science strategy is concerned. We've recently added Chris Shumba and Nick Grimshaw (who are both data scientists) to the data science department. And from what we know, the team being led by Dominic Jordan has Alex Kleyn, Chris Shumba and Nick Grimshaw thus far, with possibly another name or two to join at a later date. So the data science department is taking shape and for me the key is to develop your own data science strategy, rather than rely on others. It might take a few years to see those marginal gains, but having your own data and aiming to be the best in the field is the kind of ambition we need. I'm not sure that's possible with the Glazers, but I'm hoping a new owner can provide the ambition and funding that will aid the development of the department in question.

Here's a recent article on one of the new recruits (Chris Shumba) who is the head of data operations at the club and joined the club in March this year, along with another data scientist (Nick Grimshaw).

 

Leftback99

Might have a bedwetting fetish.
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
14,723
Adnan said:
I think the key here is to be patient with the development of the data science strategy, which seems to be developing at the club. But if I'm honest with you, data will only provide marginal gains, only if we first know what we're looking for. And if one knows what they're looking for, then being backed by a data science strategy can provide marginal gains.

And in the last 10 years we've failed because there isn't a proper blue print to develop a team to play a more dominant brand of football. So for example, we want to play out from the back and play the game in the opponent's half, press high with the forwards being backed up by the midfielders, CBs and the GK, who is in a position to sweep up.

This idea or the execution of said idea has been lacking. Mourinho wants to control games against strong opponent's by controlling the game out of possession by having big physical players. We sign Pogba and he has no clue on how to utilise him because it seems Mourinho has paid more attention to Pogba's build/physique rather than the actual player that was playing for Juventus.

Solskjaer wants to play a highline like Jurgen Klopp (his own words), and goes on to add Maguire and Wan Bissaka to a team that had players like De Gea and Lindelof making up the rest defense structure. Good luck trying to play a high line with a weak rest defense. And having a weak rest defense meant the tactics were going to be limited against the bigger team hence playing in a reactive manner by having a low to mid block became our default strategy and gave rise to the McFred partnership.

So the point is that data analytics can be useful, but only if you first know what you're looking for. Because if you don't know what you're looking for, then it's like looking for a needle in a haystack.

And as far as the development of United's data science strategy is concerned. We've recently added Chris Shumba and Nick Grimshaw (who are both data scientists) to the data science department. And from what we know, the team being led by Dominic Jordan has Alex Kleyn, Chris Shumba and Nick Grimshaw thus far, with possibly another name or two to join at a later date. So the data science department is taking shape and for me the key is to develop your own data science strategy, rather than rely on others. It might take a few years to see those marginal gains, but having your own data and aiming to be the best in the field is the kind of ambition we need. I'm not sure that's possible with the Glazers, but I'm hoping a new owner can provide the ambition and funding that will aid the development of the department in question.

Here's a recent article on one of the new recruits (Chris Shumba) who is the head of data operations at the club and joined the club in March this year, along with another data scientist (Nick Grimshaw).

Click to expand...
Was retailer N Brown's (Jacamo and others) data department that good that we've brought 3 of them in? Let's hope so.
 

Adnan

Talent Spotter
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
29,948
Location
England
Leftback99 said:
Was retailer N Brown's (Jacamo and others) data department that good that we've brought 3 of them in? Let's hope so.
Click to expand...
I don't know anything about them, but the key here isn't where they came from, but rather how they interpret data in relation to the blueprint that should be aligned with the selected head coach. Liverpool had American, William Spearman dedicated to recruitment and when they hired him, he had no experience of working in football (soccer).
 

Oranges038

Full Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2020
Messages
12,566
Adnan said:
I think the key here is to be patient with the development of the data science strategy, which seems to be developing at the club. But if I'm honest with you, data will only provide marginal gains, only if we first know what we're looking for. And if one knows what they're looking for, then being backed by a data science strategy can provide marginal gains.

And in the last 10 years we've failed because there isn't a proper blue print to develop a team to play a more dominant brand of football. So for example, we want to play out from the back and play the game in the opponent's half, press high with the forwards being backed up by the midfielders, CBs and the GK, who is in a position to sweep up.

This idea or the execution of said idea has been lacking. Mourinho wants to control games against strong opponent's by controlling the game out of possession by having big physical players. We sign Pogba and he has no clue on how to utilise him because it seems Mourinho has paid more attention to Pogba's build/physique rather than the actual player that was playing for Juventus.

Solskjaer wants to play a highline like Jurgen Klopp (his own words), and goes on to add Maguire and Wan Bissaka to a team that had players like De Gea and Lindelof making up the rest defense structure. Good luck trying to play a high line with a weak rest defense. And having a weak rest defense meant the tactics were going to be limited against the bigger team hence playing in a reactive manner by having a low to mid block became our default strategy and gave rise to the McFred partnership.

So the point is that data analytics can be useful, but only if you first know what you're looking for. Because if you don't know what you're looking for, then it's like looking for a needle in a haystack.

And as far as the development of United's data science strategy is concerned. We've recently added Chris Shumba and Nick Grimshaw (who are both data scientists) to the data science department. And from what we know, the team being led by Dominic Jordan has Alex Kleyn, Chris Shumba and Nick Grimshaw thus far, with possibly another name or two to join at a later date. So the data science department is taking shape and for me the key is to develop your own data science strategy, rather than rely on others. It might take a few years to see those marginal gains, but having your own data and aiming to be the best in the field is the kind of ambition we need. I'm not sure that's possible with the Glazers, but I'm hoping a new owner can provide the ambition and funding that will aid the development of the department in question.

Here's a recent article on one of the new recruits (Chris Shumba) who is the head of data operations at the club and joined the club in March this year, along with another data scientist (Nick Grimshaw).

Click to expand...
I think what you say there about those players and conflicts in their style and the style the team was aiming for is fair and accurate. I genuinely don't think you'd need a huge source of data to know those players didn't suit those team setups.

The other side of it is the gains, I think at Brentford it's easier to find players who will improve you than it would be at a top club. So it will perhaps be more difficult for Utd to build a data platform that's really going to give them a massive edge when looking for players who will directly improve the first team. I'm not saying it's impossible, there will probably be some rare examples to buck the trend.

I think the best benefit will be around finding players that bit earlier so they can be built up to develop into first team players over a couple of years as part of succession planning. This is part of what Brighton have done quite successfully with some players, their ties with USG in Belgium and the loan process really helped to set players up to come into the first team squad.
 

Adnan

Talent Spotter
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
29,948
Location
England
Oranges038 said:
I think what you say there about those players and conflicts in their style and the style the team was aiming for is fair and accurate. I genuinely don't think you'd need a huge source of data to know those players didn't suit those team setups.

The other side of it is the gains, I think at Brentford it's easier to find players who will improve you than it would be at a top club. So it will perhaps be more difficult for Utd to build a data platform that's really going to give them a massive edge when looking for players who will directly improve the first team. I'm not saying it's impossible, there will probably be some rare examples to buck the trend.

I think the best benefit will be around finding players that bit earlier so they can be built up to develop into first team players over a couple of years as part of succession planning. This is part of what Brighton have done quite successfully with some players, their ties with USG in Belgium and the loan process really helped to set players up to come into the first team squad.
Click to expand...
Completely agree mate.

The clip below which features Lee Dykes (Brentford recruitment head) is a segment about money ball and how it's made a difference to clubs like Brentford and Brighton. And CNN is the outlet that sends their correspondent (Darren Lewis) to interview Lee Dykes about how money ball has made a difference to their (Brentford) recruitment. But Dykes responds by saying (not verbatim) that one of the reasons they use data is because they have a team of 15 scouts and data helps them to filter out zones/regions, so they can then focus their eyes on the players that are of interest to them. Which inturn saves them time and makes them more efficient in the market. But the journalist seems to be reading from a script and keeps on pushing the money ball concept, which the average fan will watch and be influenced by. Even Michael Edwards at Liverpool has gone on record and said that they used data but their recruitment wasn't led by data. Which is logical because their recruitment was led by a idea implemented by Jurgen Klopp, and before his arrival things were looking bad for Edwards.

If one doesn't have a clue on how he wants to play the game with and without the ball, then data isn't going to be very helpful against the current competition in the league. The key imo is to apply data to a method/blueprint for every position on the pitch, with and without the ball. So the idea has to be set before the data comes into it imo.


 

Ali Dia

Full Member
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
14,474
Location
Souness's Super Sub/George Weahs Talented Cousin
So they are going to get Ashworth and Mitchell and put 250 million into infrastructure with a view to expanding the stadium to 90,000? The main fact is that Jim is very wealthy and will be able to pump money into it to restart us after the glazers ran us into the ground.

That’s the dream scenario right? Clear the debt and invest in the locality next.

Hopefully not just muppet PR and it’s not just more of the same as under the glazers. New deals for everyone!
 
Last edited:

laughtersassassin

Full Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2014
Messages
11,574
Not holding my breath but would be a nice Christmas present for this to be announced tomorrow.

Think a sale like this can only be announced after the stock exchange closes so maybe late tomorrow night.
 

Bubz27

No I won’t change your tag line
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
21,631
Yeah, and we'll have to wait for NYSE to do something. But it doesn't matter because we'll make all our money back from shirt sales.
 

SalfordRed18

Netflix and avocado, no chill
Joined
Sep 24, 2012
Messages
14,142
Location
Salford
Supports
Ashwood City FC
Ali Dia said:
So they are going to get Ashworth and Mitchell and put 250 million into infrastructure with a view to expanding the stadium to 90,000? The main fact is that Jim is very wealthy and will be able to pump money into it to restart us after the glazers ran us into the ground.

That’s the dream scenario right? Clear the debt and invest in the locality next.

Hopefully not just muppet PR and it’s not just more of the same as under the glazers. New deals for everyone!
Click to expand...
Feel like it's Muppet PR and it'll be more of the same under Ratclife.
 

DJ Jeff

Not so Jazzy
Joined
Jan 6, 2011
Messages
5,496
Location
Soaring like a candy wrapper caught in an updraft
Honestly lads I'm so, so glad we're not being taken over by Jassim. I'm so fecking glad I won't have to hear from every opposition fan about how we're disgusting, sportswashers, murderers etc etc. We never needed the money of the Arabs. We generate the money to compete with the best of the best already, without needing to resort to that. I am so glad we have avoided it.
 

Sir Erik ten Hag

Full Member
Joined
May 21, 2022
Messages
1,255
DJ Jeff said:
Honestly lads I'm so, so glad we're not being taken over by Jassim. I'm so fecking glad I won't have to hear from every opposition fan about how we're disgusting, sportswashers, murderers etc etc. We never needed the money of the Arabs. We generate the money to compete with the best of the best already, without needing to resort to that. I am so glad we have avoided it.
Click to expand...
We’ve stooped so low as to worry about what opposition fans say? We can be owned by the kindest man on Earth and they’d still talk crap about us.
 

DJ Jeff

Not so Jazzy
Joined
Jan 6, 2011
Messages
5,496
Location
Soaring like a candy wrapper caught in an updraft
Sir Erik ten Hag said:
We’ve stooped so low as to worry about what opposition fans say? We can be owned by the kindest man on Earth and they’d still talk crap about us.
Click to expand...
You are undoubtedly right, but personally I couldn't listen to every single Utd win being flooded with responses like "proud of your blood money???" etc if Jassim took over. We didn't need his money and I'm glad we didn't take it.
 

hobbers

Full Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
29,124
DJ Jeff said:
You are undoubtedly right, but personally I couldn't listen to every single Utd win being flooded with responses like "proud of your blood money???" etc if Jassim took over. We didn't need his money and I'm glad we didn't take it.
Click to expand...
But this is nonsensical because if Jassim took over, we'd still be spending our own money.

It just wouldnt be siphoned off directly by leeches and to finance a running credit card for our transfers..
 

Adnan

Talent Spotter
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
29,948
Location
England
tenpoless said:
The structure of United is also it's biggest "weapon". Especially the board members.
Click to expand...
United's biggest problem has been the managers they hired and those managers not having a clue how to develop a team for the threat posed by the new breed of manager in the present day.
 
Last edited:

Dannn411

Full Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2022
Messages
2,586
Adnan said:
United's biggest problem has been the managers they hired and those managers not having a clue how to develop a team for threat posed by the new breed of manager in the present day.
Click to expand...
Fully agreed. I always say we are one great manager away from the whole narrative changing. Most teams are.
 

UnitedSofa

You'll Never Walk Away
Joined
Jul 12, 2013
Messages
6,872
Laurencio said:
So no 3 man board? If Ratcliffe is indeed given that much control this has to be a structured full takeover masquerading as a a minority bid, surely?
Click to expand...
This has always been the case where have you been?

It was a minority bid with a view to transitioning into full take over within several years
 
Status
Not open for further replies.