I think Garnacho has more enough pace and ball control to become a threat.
Garnacho: What is his potential?
- Thread starter Samid
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Sure, but Martinelli scored 15 last year and is the better player as of now I'd say.
Yeah, certainly more established. Not sure why the goals have dried up for him this season though.
PA - 95 = 160 - 190
He's a right sided player for me. It's crazy he's never once played there at first team or youth level. A classic case of coaches overthinking the game. I noticed Elanga playing on the right for Forest last game. Maybe managers and coaches are finally waking up to what actually works rather than what's trending.
The two of them are quite similar in style(if not level). There's an old school way about them that I really like but it means they're much more suited to playing on their strong side.
When you've got a dynamic mover let him run. If he's constantly stopping to come inside you lose that from him.
The winger who's best cutting inside is a different type of player.
Play him on the right and I think he's capable of being another Kanchelskis.
The two of them are quite similar in style(if not level). There's an old school way about them that I really like but it means they're much more suited to playing on their strong side.
When you've got a dynamic mover let him run. If he's constantly stopping to come inside you lose that from him.
The winger who's best cutting inside is a different type of player.
Play him on the right and I think he's capable of being another Kanchelskis.
If Garnacho tops out at Martinelli 22/23 then we should all be very disappointed.
He is the real deal. He is carrying such a heavy responsibility for Man Utd at such young age. This proves that he has very strong mindset and his workrate on the field is also amazing.
He has single handedly done the job for Rashford, Hojlund and Antony in the attack scoring important goals for Man Utd to allow us with still a fighting chance for Top 5.
He has single handedly done the job for Rashford, Hojlund and Antony in the attack scoring important goals for Man Utd to allow us with still a fighting chance for Top 5.
He'll get faster and stronger in the next couple of years. He's starting to involve his team mates more in his general play, and we already know he has some great technique.
He has the potential to be a top player, and he has the tools to get there. He's cocky, but credit to Ten Hag for shutting that shit down in his first preseason. And and even bigger credit goes to Garnacho for keeping his head down and working hard. I just hope we don't have another Ronaldo situation where we develop him to his peak and then he buggers off to Real, but if that happens I wouldn't blame him.
He has the potential to be a top player, and he has the tools to get there. He's cocky, but credit to Ten Hag for shutting that shit down in his first preseason. And and even bigger credit goes to Garnacho for keeping his head down and working hard. I just hope we don't have another Ronaldo situation where we develop him to his peak and then he buggers off to Real, but if that happens I wouldn't blame him.
Jesus Christ.
What? You don't think Garnacho is capable of reaching those level in future?
Not saying he would, but no chance for him doing that? Jesus Christ he is only 19 and has been our best attacker this season.
You really think Giggs is a step too far, but not Bale?
You can't realise what you're saying when you flippantly throw out such names, or is that you believe Garnacho is destined for an absolutely stellar career? If it's the latter, then OK, but here is the context by your own listing:
Garnacho will become:
- One of the greatest wingers of all-time.
- One of the greatest wingers of his generation.
- One of the greatest wingers in PL history.
Just as long as that's what you were aiming for.
They're all probably a step too far, but the bolded are something else.
If you're Welsh, probably you rate Bale over Giggs given what he did for the country. But overall, not an intentional slight although I have Giggs in another tier to Bale.
If it is the specific vs that is of interest, there's this thread that was a lengthy discussion on the subject matter, or you could make a new one.
Agreed. People throw out the big names casually as if those aren’t generational PL players. There is a big gap between tier 1 PL wide players and those in the two tiers below.
Garnacho would have a hell of a career if he turned out to be on the level of Pedro, Ljungberg, Nani, Nasri, Joe Cole, Valencia, Malouda, Reyes Shaun Wright Phillips etc. Even that is a long shot so it seems crazy to me putting his potential up with those that were generational PL stars.
Garnacho would have a hell of a career if he turned out to be on the level of Pedro, Ljungberg, Nani, Nasri, Joe Cole, Valencia, Malouda, Reyes Shaun Wright Phillips etc. Even that is a long shot so it seems crazy to me putting his potential up with those that were generational PL stars.
Good young player but its absolutely laughable to compare him to some of the players mentioned. Let be honest, some of our better players like him shouldnt even be starting if we were the team we should be.
I think for me, I need more 6/7 consistent performances where hes impacting on the game even if hes not scoring. At the moment hes either a 4/5 or a 8/9....
We'll know more in a couple of years.....
I think for me, I need more 6/7 consistent performances where hes impacting on the game even if hes not scoring. At the moment hes either a 4/5 or a 8/9....
We'll know more in a couple of years.....
Agree. The scary thing is and shows how the standard of football has dropped in general, those players named are the outright stars now, not the supporting cast. Nani would easily be our best player in this side. Im guessing Ljungberg would be for Arsenal too....
We shouldn't be happy with the Villa win, because you know what, we may end up on relegation battle by the end of season anyway. It would be good enough if we end up in 6th.
Kid has the “potential” of reaching that level, not saying he would though. How often do you see 18/19 year old winger carrying his team attack at times in toughest league of the world?
Carrying us in attack? Our attack is the shitest it’s ever been and he’s only carried it in about three games all season. Garnacho has been pretty average this season outside of a few very loud moments. Saying that being average to decent in our attack this season makes you look world class compared to the rest.
What Martial did in his first season here is a better example of a young player carrying an attack.
Yeh but it’s not like there are many 18/19 years old out there capable of carry a handful of games for his team in the toughest league.
I reckon there’s an adnan januzaj thread which reads very similarly in the redcafe archives somewhere….
Resilience is heavily studied in sports psychology for a reason.
You'll soon be in the redcafe archives if you keep wumming in every thread.
He has the potential of a Giggs or a Greenwood
It's up to him and how we manage him.... I do hope we make the right decisions on his development
It's up to him and how we manage him.... I do hope we make the right decisions on his development
I love it when the keyboard warriors arrive. So many of them about.
You think it’s wumming to point out that januzaj performed at a higher level in a similar position to garnacho for a longer period of time?
Yes. Obviously.
Agree with most of your points.
At youth level Garnacho played relatively equally on the right and on the left except in FA Youth Cup matches. That was mainly to get Mather into the team on the right. Also Garnacho showed incredible pace and danger playing in that role which might have made him typecast a little.
For the Reserves he was mainly used on the left wing, again I think to accommodate other players on the right but by the time he reached that level he had already had considerable success playing on the left.
I would play him on the right in the main with the obvious knowledge that he can swap wings when necessary.
He's not as good as either of them were
Hypothetically, how much would you expect to get for him in the current market? £50m - £60m? More?
Most people would disagree with the first part of that sentence but the last part is objectively wrong. Januzaj only had a few good months under Moyes. Garnacho has been mint for over a year.
Giggs played 2 games as an 18 year old in his breakout season
Greenwood probably more talented as an 18 year old
Ravel Morrison was the best young player Fergie ever had.....
the point I was making and you've missed is that we've no idea how good Garnacho can be. It will depend on his application/attitude and how the club manage him
There werent too many watching Ronaldo in 2005 thinking he would be a multiple balon d'or winner
You bunched a number of players - as listed in my first post - who range from literal greatest wingers of all time tier, to PL greats who themselves are tiers above very good current players. You either think Garnacho is an exceptional talent, or you’ve massively overshot your mark.
The way people are talking about Giggs, they either didn’t see him as a teenager or have forgotten how good he was. The moment he debuted, it was clear he was one of the fastest, most agile, explosive and outright best dribblers in the league with world class traits that needed to be proven as fact, but by the eye test, he was at a level beyond even experienced top players to the extent he was being talked about as Best’s successor. His talent was in a different stratosphere to everyone you listed in terms of prodigious teen; Garnacho doesn’t even register on that scale as a starting point. That is no slight on him; Giggs was just that good.
Robben too was an outstanding talent and basically the players bolded were predestined to be the best of the best of their time, at least, and if health and mentality permitted, to enter all-time scaling like they all did. If Garnacho is setting off as a 600/10000 then Giggs was an 800/1000 and the other 770/1000 or something similar with all of them going over 900/1000 at their peaks, hence being all-timers. The numbers are arbitrary, but the representation of the gulf is not.
It’s rare wingers wildly level up in their 20’s like other positions do, more they hone and refine what they have and their brains catch up to their skills and ability - there are more great wingers at young ages than any other position because of what their job entails and how little interaction they have to have with others to be outstanding - wingers also rely on their physical advantages, so you get the best of most of them before the usual breakdown of their bodies as the hamstrings and various muscle strains curtail them. Mostly, their curve is early and the time at the top relatively short compared to other positions.
In accordance with the above, Giggs, Robben and Nedved (sliding scale) not only shone young, they remained elite into their 30’s and overcame injuries and physical decline to basically rubber stamp their all-time standing. There are very few occasions when breakthrough teens or even youngsters doing well have any crossover with that calibre: ‘the new: Giggs/Robben/Nedved’ brings astronomical levels of pressure and expectation. The same can be said of all the wingers you mentioned to varying degree; certainly not names you conjure up without very good reason.
As I said, if that’s what you believe Garnacho’s ability indicates to you, OK, but if you’re just pulling names out of a hat not really grasping the levels you’re evoking by doing so, then it’s something else. Personally from where Garnacho is and the ability he appears to have, the bolded this post:
Would be a really impressive level for him to get to, let alone talking about the lower rungs on your own list. Categorically, he is never going to be in keeping with Giggs, Robben, Nedved and highly unlikely Bale, either. Would be delighted to proven wrong 10 years down the line, but wingers don’t tend to take epic leaps like you see from other positions, or certainly not with the frequency.
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A really good young player with a great deal of potential.
If he keeps his head down and applies himself he will have a good career at the top level.
But comparisons to absolute elite players of the last 30 years is a big statement that is a hope rather than realistic expectation for me.
It's not impossible of course, but I think I'd be surprised. But as people have said, there are a few tiers of good footballers at the very top level.
Pleased he is making a mark.
If he keeps his head down and applies himself he will have a good career at the top level.
But comparisons to absolute elite players of the last 30 years is a big statement that is a hope rather than realistic expectation for me.
It's not impossible of course, but I think I'd be surprised. But as people have said, there are a few tiers of good footballers at the very top level.
Pleased he is making a mark.
He has huge potential. His attitude, injuries and coaches will determine alot - but I do think people forget just how young he is. He's only 19. The Everton goal and his performance against Villa are two high highs for a player of that age, not to mention he was very good last season when called upon. If you insist on player comparisons, a very succesful PL player like Son had just signed for Hamburg at 19, and Ronaldo at the extreme end was performing very well but inconsistently for United and Portugal, a huge distance from the prolific all rounder he became.
It's very difficult to predict with young players and we've gotten too excited too soon with many. Among United players emerging from academy/youth levels in recent times, I would say at this age I would put him above Januzaj and Rashford for example in terms of all round ability at 19, but probably below Greenwood.
I have huge hopes for him, but have learned to not get carried away.
It's very difficult to predict with young players and we've gotten too excited too soon with many. Among United players emerging from academy/youth levels in recent times, I would say at this age I would put him above Januzaj and Rashford for example in terms of all round ability at 19, but probably below Greenwood.
I have huge hopes for him, but have learned to not get carried away.
Ronaldo and Bale did. So did Salah.
They all had the raw tools from the outset. That’s a case of putting their games together, and in Bale’s, also changing position. Salah I know the least about as didn’t follow his rise, only heard about it.
In any case, the framework with all of them was clear: all fast, mobile and explosive, like the template tends to go.
Giggs was 17 that season, by the time he was 18 he was a fixture in a title winning team. I just think people are getting way too carried away about this lad, I really haven't seen what they're seeing for names like Giggs and Bale to be thrown around. He'll do well to be as good as Nani someday.
Like Garnacho then. Don't get me wrong I don't think he'll be as good as Bale or Salah but I think he has a great attitude, I see no reason why he can't go on and be a top class player.
Garnacho doesn’t have that raw explosivity of the very top class of winger.
Relativity is pertinent. So when you say top class, I must ask: compared to whom?
I’m generally loathe to play down youngsters, but going too far outside of what I believe they are capable of sets them up for failure and there’s good reason why youngsters get bracketed as they do. A young:
- Rooney was being compared to: Charlton, Di Stefano and even Pelè for a brief period, as a teenager.
- Giggs was being compared to Best, at 18-years old.
- C.Ronaldo, to Best - Best even directly being fielded the question and answering it positively.
- Greenwood to Van Persie.
And so on and so forth. All of whom were not risible claims even if the players eventually fell short; their talent and ability had them bracketed as such for good reason.
If someone said there’s a kid coming through who is the potential successor to Giggs, everyone who saw Giggs in his pomp would either have scorn or lofty skepticism toward the claim, either that, or they’re expecting to see clear potential all-time talent shoot from the traps. So relativity is important.