Too slow, so easy to get past and a poser. Enough said!
Amrabat - Man United Player FINALLY - #4 confirmed
- Thread starter IrishRedDevil
- Start date
Palace were on a evening stroll, gave Utd a huge amount of space to play in and treated it like a warm up for the more important league game against Utd at the weekend. Utd played well but it was not a game to read much into.
I haven't watched enough of Amrabat in Italy to make a judgement on his performances but those who have consistently said he was better at Verona than he ever was for Fiorentina. He doesn't score very well on the performance metric websites, averaging 6.53/6.35/6.46 for his 3 seasons there on Whoscored, which would make him one of their weaker players during that time frame. Now, I would be dubious towards the accuracy of their scoring, there are many things in the game we don't have a metric for, but I can't think it is a good thing to score poorly either.
He is alright, but too slow and tends to drop far too deep to pick up the ball, doesn;t have enough to make him an option moving forward.
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I agree. I just felt Amrabat's performances were better when he played as an inverted full back, but going forward, I do hope we go back to a 4231.
Just because both are capable in the "special" role, be that inverting or as a winger, doesn't mean they do it at the same time. City didn't have a double pivot made of Fullbacks and Liverpools TAA was compared to Beckham for his deep crossing while Robertson was the one who usually was going for it. I agree overall though, while Antony seems to be a winger who stays out wide and who knows, maybe he will start creating again and not just try to shoot but Rashford these days isn't a wide player anymore. I tend to say he would work best with a more traditional Fullback. Best case scenario probably one who is good in defense because Rashford isn't known for his support. So I think, Shaw is kind of fine in this regard, he is a traditional fullback but he should have the skillset to invert here and there. Dalot is similar in terms of skillset. Even though I consider him as worse than Shaw in the traditional qualities. AWB on the other side is ideal to become part of the back three so either one of the CB can push up or the LB can invert.
Lets see though, what happens once Martinez is back. I think, he is more suited to support midfield than both Dalot or Shaw are so this option could still be ETHs prefered one.
I think Olise was at CP already and he wouldn't have been cheap either. The moment to buy him was during Oles reign, iirc he produced very good numbers in the lower league and it was pretty likely that would have been useful.
I don't know if there were alternatives. But what if ETH thought, there were no scouting reports available. No shortlist for the type of player he wanted. I feel uncomfortable to stand here and defend Antony but he was a Brazilian national team member by then and he was part of a pretty decent Ajax side in another (admitably bad) league. Would you have expected ETH to present alternatives or the club to do that? Iirc the whole matter with Antony became more substantial pretty late in the window. Before there were a few rumours here and there but not too much.
Players ETH didn't knew and/or were rather unknowns in terms of their ability to keep afloat in the league.
Of course there is another explanation. It is just as likely that ETH suggested him and in the absence of alternatives was obviously fine with bringing him in. The whole financial aspect isn't in his court, isn't it? Maybe he asked, is that financially possible and the other guys told him yes. I am not going to sit here and act as if the whole thing wasn't a huge feckup. Of course it was - we ended up paying a price that even Ajax thought nobody would be dumb enough to pay because their squad planning for the season was already done. And we did this knowing that we bought Sancho a year ago for exactly the same position. Of course that is borderline idiotic. But to say this is solely on ETH seems a bit wild to me. There is no indication that this would be the case, it would even be weird if there be one - because that should be really confidential and internal.
We needed a striker badly and apparently, Hojlund fitted the search profile. Funnily enough, I don't consider that outlay as so dramatic... He is a striker with potential bought from a pretty decent side. The issue with this transfer was more that we didn't manage to bring a striker like Taremi or whatever, an experienced guy who would take away a bit of pressure from such a young guy like Hojlund.
So you read the word "control" and thats all you need to get a full understanding of the roles and responsibilities of Manchester United transfer business? I am sorry mate, what you are talking about is an opinion. A plausible one, not going to argue that that would be out of this world but it for sure isn't the only possible explanation for those events.
Don't let it happen that the manager is now getting all the blame that the higher ups deserve. More than enough to blame ETH for without things that may sound plausible but are nothing more than plausible assumptions at the end of the day.
If there were no scouting reports (what I find hard to believe) then he had a choice to either give Sancho a run (with Pellistri, Amad, and feckin Elanga as backup) or push for what he knew he was going to get from Antony. I think it's shocking that he was so mistaken about Antony football abilities. We knew spending will be constrained because of how much money we spent for that summer.
Obviously he could've asked for some other RW options and I'm pretty sure Olise for example would've been on a shortlist. Do you think we wouldn't have gotten him for somewhere between 50-100m we paid for Antony?
That isn't an excuse though. You don't get to replace every player as a coach coming to a new team because "you don't know them" or "you don't know if they are good enough".
What I think happened is someone at the club vetoed Antony earlier in the summer, but then we got into panic mode and ETH was given a free hand to use another 150m. That doesn't make ETH look any better. The fact he's been watching Antony play football for 2 years and then thought he's definitely better than whatever we already have at the club (after spending a few weeks with the team in rather successful pre-season) AND was willing to spend so much of his budget on him is truly shocking.
It's possible he was told we have all the money in the world. Possible, but unlikely. Even more unlikely would be he actually believed it.
I don't understand this idea that Hojlund fitted the profile. What profile? Didn't we want Kane who is a completely different type of striker? I have to admit I don't see it with Hojlund, even if he's a good finisher, this isn't enough to make it on the top level, and I really don't see anything else in his game. I could name a few weaknesses but don't want to be too negative. I just don't understand why he was (apparently) the only young striker we went after this summer.
Before you ask me if I know any alternatives - I don't, but I was also not aware of Hojlund existence until we got heavily interested in him.
Do you know how many people work like crazy to get in a position of control? To be able to make decisions on how to spend half a billion is real power, it is the dream for many ambitious people. And you cannot find this in many positions (in general, I am not talking about football here).
ETH did not have that kind of power at Ajax because Overmars made all the important decisions. ETH was ambitious, he wanted control over the big money, he said it himself in the interview that without this control he wouldn't have joined Man Utd. I blame the higher ups for giving him so much power and for not sacking him already.
I really don't think that Hannibal has it to make it at United or elsewhere in the Premier League.
The hype he got before he joined was weird. He was clearly far too slow and just a standard midfield player in a mid table team. The one run against Mbappe (a game he got bullied in by Mbappe) apparently made him world class
A number of people raised this concern in his thread before we got him. Turns out again we're getting exactly the player we paid for. Another player that excels in Italy/Germany or international level but just watching him play makes you think he ain't getting that much time and space in the EPL.
What's shocking is that ETH thought he was good enough or had the speed to cope even after managing a full season in the PL.
Is he amazing at "identifying the best starting 11" ?
That's what I'm saying. If you can get it so wrong when identifying signings, especially when he's actually worked with these players, then can he really be that good at assessing other things of a similar nature?
As you imply, the answer is probably no, based on his selections and substitutions.
Yes, ETH is a shocking judge of a player, which IMO undermines his suitability for the job. Amongst many other things. I think he is actually very arrogant and think he knows best. Overrules our scouts, refuse to meet Rangnick etc
It's not that shocking considering his track record of bringing unsuitable players into the club. Par for the course for Ten Hag
We have to get rid of TWO bald frauds now.
It is reminiscent of Moyes getting rid of SAF’s back room staff in favour of Steve Round, in that ETH assumed what worked for him at a smaller club will scale up to a club of United’s size and expectation. You want an arrogant manager but they also need to deliver or they look inept.
I'd rather we give Amrabat's game time to Gore. He is clearly not good enough and why waste time and salary money?
I think ETH knew. Hence him being a last minute loan signing who ETH rarely picks.
Just a case of needs must.
I also suggested that - I am not sure if he was really wanted by the club like so many people thought. I think he was another player that someone in the club had doubts about. But in the end it still makes no sense, I don't understand what was the plan for midfield for season 2023/24.
Is the jury in? Have we given up on Amrabat?
Almost like the gaffer hasn’t a scoobert on how to set up a midfield
Letting Garner go was just silly to me. He's a natural DM and we needed one. To then loan in Amrabat.
+ I'm pretty sure I read we only brought him in because Mainoo was injured. The fact he is on loan means its not really a problem, but had he turned out good then we had an agreed price. I don't see the problem with this one personally.
Yeah Amrabat himself isn't a significant problem. It's more about how did we end up needing him in the first place.
If an 18 year old getting an injury causes a sub standard last min loan something isn't right.
If anything it makes the Mount signing even stranger....but that's another topic.
But Amrabat is also a problem, as we were after him all summer. Another player from Dutch league who actually played for ETH at Utrecht. So ETH knew him well and was v keen to sign him. The guy is clueless
The season is over. If ETH wants to garner some goodwill, have the balls to develop the academy kids now. They are young and melleable at least.
Then I may at least want to see how he will do with a set of ten hag's fledglings next season. Otherwise he doesn't deserve to stay.
In parallel, ETH probably has a super tight group of friends, and doesn't feel he needs anymore since those he met in primary school! Married the first woman he slept with!!
That is my thinking also. What is the point of loan in players like Weghorst, Amrabat and Reguilon exactly? Are we chasing trophies or something? I'd rather we give those minutes to our own kids, even if they end up not good enough long term.
It would be politically expedient of ETH too. Sell the concept of hope in the future to the fans.
Academy = United, certainly for me.
It would show he gets it too. And shoes he has seen the light -- from mainly Evedrise to mainly Academy.
Back to our identity especially since he said we aren't going to play Ajaxball.
No, he came in without any pre-season, got injured, and then came back into an utterly disfunctional team riddled with further injuries. I won't judge him until he gets a run of games with our proper midfield.
Not saying he will be a success, but I wouldn't discard him as not being United quality yet. It's been an infuriatingly difficult season for everyone with the amount of injuries we've had.
He is doing that to be fair. Mainoo is starting over Amrabat already.
Amad got 30 mins in pretty much the first game he was available for. He's dropped Rashford for Garnacho.
True, but most people who had seen him said he was too slow and weak for the PL. Noone else was in for him. He has an awful lot to do to show he is up to it. He's also been here what 5 months now? How long to get fit?
One swallow doesnt make a summer. I want that to be the theme for the rest of the season.
You had me worried for a sec
There's at least three swallows. 19 year old left wing. 18 year old CM. 20 year old CF. Amad straight in as soon as he's fit.
This is good going by most managerial standards. It's not something he can be criticised for but I'm with you, I want more chamces for young players.
I think there is little to no chance he signs at the end of the season.
Thought he was decent against Liverpool. He must be pretty fed up to have been left on the bench for the West Ham game the week after.
Thought he was decent against Liverpool. He must be pretty fed up to have been left on the bench for the West Ham game the week after.
It seems like he played different role with Fiorentina and NT. He's a Neves type, instead of sole DM; a defensive playmaker. He usually was paired with a pure destroyer, wasn't he?
Not really. The defensive numbers for the midfielders for Fiorentina last year were pretty underwhelming overall. iirc there was one, who was a little less below average than anybody else but his minutes suggested, he either was injured a lot or just a sub. Based on numbers, it looked like most of the ball winning was done in defense, midfield didn't contribute much on that.
But the Ruben Neves comparison sounds plausible. Just that Amrabat was supposed to be a bit more "bulldoggy" and mobile and doesn't have a knack for scoring at all.
I would agree with you. But it still doesn’t bring anything substantial into the picture about ETH. You and me and nobody knows what he meant when he used the term control. And given the fact that we are talking about an organisation with lots of roles and responsibilities, the term control itself is too broad.
It could also be that he meant that he wanted to be involved in the recruitment process to not be faced with situations where he gets a player and has to work with him even though he has no use for it. Again, not saying that my explanation has more probability than yours but we have to realize, that both of us aren’t really standing on solid ground at all. That is why I feel the level of condemnation is little too big.