Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic

[Slops]

Oh ok, I did not know that they key witness (his girlfriend I assume) withdrew, but in Sweden at least (where I live) - it would not matter if she did. If there were prof of him doing those things media reported that there was some kind of evidence that he did (i believe they reported that there is some kind of video or photos(?)), he would be put in jail no matter what. You dont walk free here just because someone regrets there accusations and dont longer wants to witness, if there is evidence, you will be put behind bars for years for those things he was accused for. And that is why I dont understand why Manchester United is still having him under contract and have not given us an open answer if he will play here again.

Also, Ronaldo paid some girl in the US for not going to trail and probably jail, for the things she said that he had done to her, and there were prof that came out years after that he paid her like 300.000 dollars but she wanted more money some years later but because the made a deal, she did not get a penny more. And If i remember correct, those accusations were as serious as those Mason is accused for but we still took back Ronaldo gave him a biggest love ever in his come back - even when he was playing for Real Madrid in the CL against us, we gave him standing ovations. Why? Just trying to see the bigger picture.

I simply did not know about the Ronaldo accusations before he came back to the club. That's it. That's all there is to it for me. I still haven't read a lot about it, but I am glad he's not still here.

As for Greenwood, I don't feel duty bound to have the same high threshold as the courts need for a prosecution, to decide that I personally don't want him to play for Manchester United again. The recording that is plainly out there for everyone to hear, alongside the complete lack of any reasonable explanation for the contents of that recording, is enough for me. I think it's totally indefensible.

The reason he's still under contract with United is simply that the club can not terminate that contract, just as they can't terminate any other player's contract without mutual agreement. United have an obligation legally to fulfil his contract financially until he's contracted at another club. It's no reflection on whether the club wants him under contract, or whether he did what's alleged.

 

[Pickle85]

The question is, Ronaldo was accused for the same thing more or less, but because it happened in the US and he did not want to take it to court, he made a deal and bought her silence for 300k dollars - and even after that came out, we gave him standing ovations, sang VIVA RONALDO when he came back to Old Trafford the first time, then even bought him back from Juventus and gave him all the love in the world. Why?

"Cristiano Ronaldo’s lawyer urged a U.S. appeals court Wednesday to reject an appeal and uphold stiff sanctions against a lawyer for a woman trying to force the international soccer star to pay millions more than the $375,000 in hush money he paid her after she accused him of raping her in Las Vegas in 2009."

It’s a painfully poor attempt at trying to undermine people who do take the ‘moral’ stance. Saying we have to respond the same way now as then means we never learn from any experience, grow or change our opinions. We should still have slavery and racism is a-ok. As arguments go it’s weak as piss.

It isn’t even inherently hypocritical, the Ronaldo experience and revelations about Giggs could have been instructive ones, causing people to deal with these kinds of issues and feelings for the first time re United. Feeling excitement about a legend returning but then a lot of conflict given his character.

Certainly, for me it was a watershed moment, I became increasingly uncomfortable supporting him or the team throughout his return and was extremely happy to see him leave. That makes me feel even more sure about not wanting to see Greenwood play here again. My response to something years before doesn’t hold me in some vice grip moving forward. It’s obviously miles better to take a previous experience and reflect on it and how it made you feel and use that moving forward than just say “well I didn’t say anything then so I can’t now” like an absolute mug.

It’s not a gotcha, it’s just a lame attempt at trying to make those who disagree with you look less shiny white or to tear them down, all in aid of you feeling better about a guy who said those things playing here again.

Even in that exact instance it barely matters.

No. I didn't say that. I'm not asking you to believe anyone.

People asked why this is playing out like this. It's the video.

2 wrongs don’t make a right.
Ask people about Ronaldo now I bet you get a different answer
Besides let’s keep the focus on greenwood. What did or didn’t happen in the past is irrelevant for me, it’s about what the club do now. About putting a marker down for our young players

It's been addressed repeatedly in this thread. A few examples above. Many didn't know about the Ronaldo allegations when he came back. Also, the audio and video evidence for Greenwood was publicly available and sounded horrendous.

 

[RoyH1]

I have, but i have not found a answer to my questions. More then the one you gave me about why and how the court works in the UK, thank you for that and for responding in a normal and adult way. But as for the Ronaldo situation for example, I dont see any answer that make sense for me. I just read about people arguing about who is right or wrong, and I am just here to find info and understand. For me is it obvious, guilty = jail, not guilty = RW in Manchester United next season or sold for 100m euro or send FDJ our way and Mason to Barcelona.

Maybe the answer to your question should be right there. Why aren't the likes of Barcelona, Real Madrid or let's say Atletico snooping around Mason Greenwood when they see his very good performances in La Liga. Hhmm, this is difficult. I wonder what it could be?

 

[moses]

Maybe the answer to your question should be right there. Why aren't the likes of Barcelona, Real Madrid or let's say Atletico snooping around Mason Greenwood when they see his very good performances in La Liga. Hhmm, this is difficult. I wonder what it could be?

It's because of Rachel Riley, the woke mob and United being spineless. Obviously.

 

[Rood]

Maybe the answer to your question should be right there. Why aren't the likes of Barcelona, Real Madrid or let's say Atletico snooping around Mason Greenwood when they see his very good performances in La Liga. Hhmm, this is difficult. I wonder what it could be?

Well according to many reports they are - whether that's true or not, we will only find out in summer

 

[SWE-Chucky]

It's been addressed repeatedly in this thread. A few examples above. Many didn't know about the Ronaldo allegations when he came back. Also, the audio and video evidence for Greenwood was publicly available and sounded horrendous.

The Ronaldo situation was mentioned, but not proven, already 2011-2012 the first time but the documents leaked out first when the german "whistle-blower" got the documents 2017 and went out with it in the newspapers.

"The existence of the settlement was first reported by the German newspaper Der Spiegel in 2017 using leaked confidential communications from Ronaldo’s attorneys."

And Ronaldo was bought back to Man United from Juventus 4 years later. 2021. So we knew, at least everyone that follows football did because when the documents were out for everybody to read it was the only thing the news talked about for weeks, if not months.

But I agree that it is NOT a reason to take back Mason, just because we made the mistake once. I am not arguing with you personally bud, so dont get me wrong. I just want to understand what 300+ pages is about.
And to make it clear, I am on that side that if there is enough prof of him being guilty (him like in Mason in this case), then i would ban him from ever playing professional football ever again, no matter who it is, a unknown young dude from a division 5 club or one of the best players in the history of football. So my question is more to those who celebrated and cheered for Ronaldo after 2017 at least, when the prof was out, but now are against Mason and not to you personally again, just to make that clear. Thank you for having a discussion in a adult way and explaining some things about how things work in the UK that i did not know.

I do have feeling that it is not out of question that we will see him here next season. Otherwise we would have already cut all ties to him. Or maybe we hope that he does extremely well and that we can get 60-70m euros for him (If that is the case then we are even worse then if we took him back. Because making a profit from a situation like this is just awful - but then again, Glazers are all about the money).

 

[Rood]

Read the thread. There is a pattern.

Ive read more than enough of this thread !

I know you won't agree but I personally think closing the football only thread was a bad move and only makes it even more likely that we get the same rehashed discussions and then some of the really weird stuff like yesterday

When the 2 threads were open, hardly anyone was discussing the nonfootball stuff although I do understand that the moderation became difficult to split the two.

 

[SWE-Chucky]

Well according to many reports they are - whether that's true or not, we will only find out in summer

Yes, I have a friend in Spain that told me that after the game against A. Madrid that both Madrid and Barcelona are following him closely. That´s why I asked. Some Spanish newspaper even had an article about Barcelona will offer Raphinha or Kounde in a swap deal for Mason this summer.

 

[adexkola]

Ive read more than enough of this thread !

I know you won't agree but I personally think closing the football only thread was a bad move and only makes it even more likely that we get the same rehashed discussions and then some of the really weird stuff like yesterday

When the 2 threads were open, hardly anyone was discussing the nonfootball stuff although I do understand that the moderation became difficult to split the two.

Wouldn't have taken much effort to make conversation in the football thread strictly football, although posts on recent pages make you understand why that option was never taken, the will just wasn't there

Private forum though, so it is what it is

 

[moses]

Ive read more than enough of this thread !

I know you won't agree but I personally think closing the football only thread was a bad move and only makes it even more likely that we get the same rehashed discussions and then some of the really weird stuff like yesterday

When the 2 threads were open, hardly anyone was discussing the nonfootball stuff although I do understand that the moderation became difficult to split the two.

I agree on what a mess it is, but I'd prefer that to some la la land where it looks like he's just on loan and not exiled to some limbo because of heinous allegations. Echoing what @Brophs said above I think that would be damaging for the caf and in light of the Official Website's non-existent MG coverage, (and they know more than we do ) I think we should do the same.

 

[Bondi77]

Yes, I have a friend in Spain that told me that after the game against A. Madrid that both Madrid and Barcelona are following him closely. That´s why I asked. Some Spanish newspaper even had an article about Barcelona will offer Raphinha or Kounde in a swap deal for Mason this summer.

They are having a laugh....surely.

 

[moses]

Wouldn't have taken much effort to make conversation in the football thread strictly football, although posts on recent pages make you understand why that option was never taken, the will just wasn't there

Private forum though, so it is what it is

That was never a secret. I said it explicitly from the start.

 

[Pickle85]

The Ronaldo situation was mentioned, but not proven, already 2011-2012 the first time but the documents leaked out first when the german "whistle-blower" got the documents 2017 and went out with it in the newspapers.

"The existence of the settlement was first reported by the German newspaper Der Spiegel in 2017 using leaked confidential communications from Ronaldo’s attorneys."

And Ronaldo was bought back to Man United from Juventus 4 years later. 2021. So we knew, at least everyone that follows football did because when the documents were out for everybody to read it was the only thing the news talked about for weeks, if not months.

But I agree that it is NOT a reason to take back Mason, just because we made the mistake once. I am not arguing with you personally bud, so dont get me wrong. I just want to understand what 300+ pages is about.
And to make it clear, I am on that side that if there is enough prof of him being guilty (him like in Mason in this case), then i would ban him from ever playing professional football ever again, no matter who it is, a unknown young dude from a division 5 club or one of the best players in the history of football. So my question is more to those who celebrated and cheered for Ronaldo after 2017 at least, when the prof was out, but now are against Mason and not to you personally again, just to make that clear. Thank you for having a discussion in a adult way and explaining some things about how things work in the UK that i did not know.

I do have feeling that it is not out of question that we will see him here next season. Otherwise we would have already cut all ties to him. Or maybe we hope that he does extremely well and that we can get 60-70m euros for him (If that is the case then we are even worse then if we took him back. Because making a profit from a situation like this is just awful - but then again, Glazers are all about the money).

All good - if you don't read back (and there's a lot to read back on!) it's understandable that you wouldn't have seen how circular the conversation has become around some of the points above. Re Ronaldo, I disagree that 'it was the only thing the news talked about for weeks' in 2017 - I wasn't aware of it until he was back and it was mentioned in his thread. It was certainly not a story on the scale that you're suggesting here at the time.

Re the bolded, I don't see how making a profit from the situation is awful? He's a club asset at the end of the day. Why should the club shoot itself in the foot because of his disgusting behaviour? We don't want an (alleged) violent sexual abuser representing the club, which is why we get rid as opposed to keep, but we're absolutely justified in getting whatever money we can for him in my opinion.

 

[adexkola]

That was never a secret. I said it explicitly from the start.

Definitely you never hid it (nothing wrong with that stance)

Was just pushing back on the idea it was difficult (from an effort perspective) to lay the ban hammer down

 

[cafecillos]

I don't know how some of you have the patience to deal with users that claim to have read the thread but after over 12,000 messages they haven't found the answers to their incredibly insightful questions. I find it maddening. The I'm-just-asking-questions and the I'm-actually-on-the-fence-despite-a-hundred-posts-indefatigably-defending-him routines are what bother me the most. Much more than people who are at least honest enough to admit football is all that matters to them about all this and they openly want Greenwood to play for United again.

 

[Lash]

Please can we stop pointing out Ronaldo as an example for why he should come back or the hypocrisy of fans. In both instances, now we know absolutely everything about both, it's only an argument for Mason not returning.

 

[moses]

Definitely you never hid it (nothing wrong with that stance)

Was just pushing back on the idea it was difficult (from an effort perspective) to lay the ban hammer down

On the contrary, the ban hammer is great fun!

It's the tedium that skirts around or leads up to that point that is time-consuming.

 

[moses]

I don't know how some of you have the patience to deal with users that claim to have read the thread but after over 12,000 messages they haven't found the answers to their incredibly insightful questions. I find it maddening. The I'm-just-asking-questions and the I'm-actually-on-the-fence-despite-a-hundred-posts-indefatigably-defending-him routines are what bother me the most. Much more than people who are at least honest enough to admit football is all that matters to them about all this and they openly want Greenwood to play for United again.

"I'm not saying we should bring back capital punishment, I'm just asking the question, y'all. "

We had a Piers Morgan style radio host here and that was his style. Scumbag.

 

[Pickle85]

I don't know how some of you have the patience to deal with users that claim to have read the thread but after over 12,000 messages they haven't found the answers to their incredibly insightful questions. I find it maddening. The I'm-just-asking-questions and the I'm-actually-on-the-fence-despite-a-hundred-posts-indefatigably-defending-him routines are what bother me the most. Much more than people who are at least honest enough to admit football is all that matters to them about all this and they openly want Greenwood to play for United again.

Kill em with kindness! In all seriousness, though, agreed that the bolded is the most frustrating, insidious position.

 

[moses]

Kill em with kindness! In all seriousness, though, agreed that the bolded is the most frustrating, insidious position.

Yep, I've not stated my position so I'm neutral. But only argue against extremists, who all seem to be on one side. Not my fault.

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

This actually happens to my friend before. His girlfriend literally giving him unconsensual blow job while he was still asleep, but not a second he thought his girlfriend was raping him (in a bad way), but of course he did joke with me that his girlfriend likes to rape him out of nowhere, and he seems to enjoy it at the end. It’s perhaps something some lovers might sometimes do to spice things up I guess. It’s not always the case of either black or white when the parties involved are in ongoing sexual relationships. That’s why I thought it would be interesting to bring this up here.

What the feck did I just read.

I wish I could ask this banned poster - if it were the other way round, and the guy started having non-consensual penetrative sex with his girlfriend while she was asleep, would he think that's ambiguous as well?

 

[Rood]

I agree on what a mess it is, but I'd prefer that to some la la land where it looks like he's just on loan and not exiled to some limbo because of heinous allegations. Echoing what @Brophs said above I think that would be damaging for the caf and in light of the Official Website's non-existent MG coverage, (and they know more than we do ) I think we should do the same.

I do get your stance but we will have to agree to disagree on that as i dont think there was anything damaging to the Caf with the football only thread - this mishmash of discussions is definitely worse anyway.

Plus is it realistic to ban all Greenwood chat anyway, he is still officially a Man United player - are you going to tell people not to discuss Getafe in the La Liga thread? or ban the inevitable chat in the transfer forum this summer?

 

[moses]

I do get your stance but we will have to agree to disagree on that as i dont think there was anything damaging to the Caf with the football only thread - this mishmash of discussions is definitely worse anyway.

Plus is it realistic to ban all Greenwood chat anyway, he is still officially a Man United player - are you going to tell people not to discuss Getafe in the La Liga thread? or ban the inevitable chat in the transfer forum this summer?

Some things are more worthy of my time than others.

 

[antohan]

(i believe they reported that there is some kind of video or photos(?))

Look up the audio and listen to it then. Therein lies the giant difference between rumour/hearsay and people making up their minds regardless of court outcomes.

Ronaldo paid some girl in the US for not going to trail and probably jail, for the things she said that he had done to her, and there were prof that came out years after that he paid her like 300.000 dollars

Not even a week's wages for getting over the latest of many accusations he received. We are all familiar with footballers being attention magnets.

And no, I didn't want PRonaldo back, but this never factored in my assessment of him, nor will I ever regard it as anything other than hearsay unless something emerged like... you know... an exchange being recorded which leaves no realistic room for alt interpretations.

 

[jojojo]

Definitely you never hid it (nothing wrong with that stance)

Was just pushing back on the idea it was difficult (from an effort perspective) to lay the ban hammer down

You're right - banning posters is very easy - easier than actually replying to them, warning them, deleting their posts or thread-banning them from a pure "number of clicks" perspective in fact.

The effort in that thread was the one we made not to ban the posters who wanted to live in a happy little footballing bubble and ignore the elephant in the room. In the end we found that effort unjustifiable, particularly as we were having to warn other posters to preserve that fantasy land for the posters who were cosy in their bubble.

For some of us, every match he plays now is a reminder that he doesn't play for United and hasn't done for two years. Some of us remember the reason why he doesn't play for us and that trumps any goal/assist stats. It's not worth preserving a fantasy football bubble just so people don't have to hear that.

 

[sepulturite]

What the feck did I just read.

I wish I could ask this banned poster - if it were the other way round, and the guy started having non-consensual penetrative sex with his girlfriend while she was asleep, would he think that's ambiguous as well?

He got banned?! Finally!

 

[Samid]

His set piece creates the opening goal.

 

[massey]

Won a throw in

 

[GledTheRed]

Won a throw in

Get in!

 

[Gandalf]

Won a throw in

That will be another 20 million on the fee then, noice!

 

[cafecillos]

That will be another 20 million on the fee then, noice!

120 million at the moment then.

 

[Cloud7]

Please can we stop pointing out Ronaldo as an example for why he should come back or the hypocrisy of fans. In both instances, now we know absolutely everything about both, it's only an argument for Mason not returning.

To add to this point, just because a mistake on the part of the fans happened in the past in welcoming Ronaldo back, though from most people's perception whatever Ronaldo did is much less heinous since there are no photos or audio, but for the sake of discussion let's call it a mistake (And to build even further I would wager that the vast majority of people knew nothing about Ronaldo's allegations. I certainly did not before it start being brought up in this thread, same for Evans), that doesn't mean that it should be used as a justification to make a similar mistake in the future. I would call that a really stupid way of thinking.

 

[Yagami]

Brilliant dribbling. Literally had the Spanish commentators gasping.

 

[Samid]

Cheeky bounced shot over the goalie, saved off the line.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Should've had a penalty

 

[Yagami]

Was definitely a pen. His dribbling is impressive.

 

[SAF is the GOAT]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Wibble]

Definitely you never hid it (nothing wrong with that stance)

Was just pushing back on the idea it was difficult (from an effort perspective) to lay the ban hammer down

Moderating 2 threads was far too much work. In terms of banning people, we didn't think it was appropriate to ban all pro-Greenwood discussion, despite it making the Caf look bad.

 

[SilentWitness]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

What an amazing run that once again turned into absolutely nothing.

 

[Mickson]

What an amazing run that once again turned into absolutely nothing.

To be fair, I'm more impressed by that than his low xG shots. He's like Ronaldo, shoots 25 times per game and scores every third game and then people go "wooooow".