stefan92
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- Hannover 96
Yes. But I do think that United's fans too easily accept mediocrity and have done so for a long time.Being a 'big club' is not solely based on your playing ability
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Yes. But I do think that United's fans too easily accept mediocrity and have done so for a long time.Being a 'big club' is not solely based on your playing ability
We already know that Klopp is leaving in the summer. Anyway, this thread is about Ten Hag and how he's being replaced by Kenny Dalglish, who says that he has "unfinished business" and wants to make United "infamous", which sounds exciting to a no English word understanding animal like meselfs.He is gone, mutual agreement, end of season.
Nagelsman offered terms.
To your last point, I‘m not saying that all. I am saying Xavi did not do better than Koeman, considering the squad strength (or lack thereof in Koeman‘s case).You never answered the question.
Also, strongly disagree. Messi was still the best player in the world. It wasn’t prime Pique and Alba, but Busquets was still great, Pedri was outstanding. Koeman persisted with Dest at RB, that’s his own fault. Objectively, Xavi has been better than Koeman with a more unsettled squad. Just look at his record.
Both Koeman and Xavi have been treated poorly.
You’re saying Xavi isn’t a fit here is based on a bias for Ten Hag, who really isn’t a fit here. A single La Liga trophy is more meaningful than all of Ten Hag trophies as a manager combined. He’s won 5 of 7 vs Real. People talk about Ten Hag’s great win in the CL vs Real… Xavi’s record is better.
That, and Ten Hag isn’t a good manager tactically.
Look, I’m not saying Xavi is coming here. I’m not saying he’s a great fit. But saying that Koeman and Ten Hag are better or even equally good managers as Xavi is a horrible, horrible take.
Are you drunk? We had a negative goal difference, we faced one of the most shots in every game, we got beaten by lesser teams, we were humiliated in the Champion League, we had double-digit losses, we had so many injuries, we wasted 400 million on players who aren't good or ready, we cannot protect leads, wasting money on meaningless loan (Amrabat) Tell me why are we keeping him? Don't tell me that he believes in youth, he only started them because of injuries or he has run out of ideas. If his XI is fit, I am 100% sure that Kobbie wouldn't be playing.WE HAVE TO KEEP HIM
If I’m honest though, I’d trust a football professional’s view over some random fan any day.There’s a lot of things us fans can see which managers don’t. Or choose not to. Some managers are stubborn and don’t want to change the ways, there desperate for there ways to work so they can say they’ve proved everyone wrong.
What happens if that electrician re wires your house but when you test things the ground floor is fine, the top floor is fine but on the middle floor none of the switches work?If I’m honest though, I’d trust a football professional’s view over some random fan any day.
Im not going to tell an electrician how to rewire my house. That would be pretty stupid at best.
Personally feel we also need CB, LB and DM tooMaybe ETH stays another season or maybe he goes. I live in Asia but one thing is for sure, I won't be waking up in the middle to watch the game. It is frustrating being a United fan. Seeing how we beat Liverpool in the quarter but drew and beaten by Chelsea. Seeing how Spurs and Villa are dropping points we can't seem to move forward. We will finish 6th and that is the position that we deserve. As long as ETH is not involved in signing players, I can give him 1 more season. 400 million spent to achieve 6th, that's a joke to me. I hope we sign a competent CB, 1 CM, 1 RW and 1 ST. If we don't make any mistake, I believe we will be back competing.
If you mean my post, fair point, I don’t take well to giving a thorough and balanced reply to one poster, to get an answer from another poster that didn’t seem to read any of it but feels like calling me naive with no particular reasoning other than assuming they are obviously right and I am obviously wrong. I do think it’s naive to expect something very different from most of the options named so far, though.You can actually taste the condescension in that post.
You have spiked my curiosity, though. You imply that you know the reason why ETH plays with:
Leaving a gaping chasm in the heart of your team that Casemiro’s aging legs struggle to cover. Every. Single. Game.
- A back line that defends deep
- AND a midfield that aggressively man marks
- AND a front line that constantly presses high
Could you share the reason with us? And also, why the reason even matters?
I think that the refusal of Hannover 96 supporters to accept anything but consistently hauling in the biggest trophies has led to their dominant position in German and International football.Yes. But I do think that United's fans too easily accept mediocrity and have done so for a long time.
Go and look at match day thread and see if you still think that!Yes. But I do think that United's fans too easily accept mediocrity and have done so for a long time.
Well one thing's for sure, you have a 3-story house so you're richer than most of us plebs in hereWhat happens if that electrician re wires your house but when you test things the ground floor is fine, the top floor is fine but on the middle floor none of the switches work?
That’s fair enough, interesting answer.If you mean my post, fair point, I don’t take well to giving a thorough and balanced reply to one poster, to get an answer from another poster that didn’t seem to read any of it but feels like calling me naive with no particular reasoning other than assuming they are obviously right and I am obviously wrong. I do think it’s naive to expect something very different from most of the options named so far, though.
Neither did I imply I know the answers, on the contrary, I think I specified in both posts that I don’t know, and don’t expect anyone to know looking from the outside. I am sceptical to anyone being very sure about the answers, is my point.
I do find your questions relevant and interesting, it’s just that I can only assemble some crude facts and half-intelligent guesswork about them:
1) Deep backline: I assume the plan A is for the backline to push higher faster (which I think both Ten Hag and several players have mentioned as well) and that the main obstacles are lack of cohesion, lack of continuity and lack of profiles. Plan A was Bissaka/Dalot - Varane - Martinez - Shaw, with Casemiro in front. They were on the right track last year, but have been injured (Martinez, Shaw, Bissaka, Varane), inconstant and surprisingly fast ageing (Varane, Casemiro). The backups lack the profile and/or quality and/or continuity. High backline demands confidence, coherence and the right profiles. I’m not assigning the blame for those factors cause I don’t know enough, but the factors are clearly there and contributing.
2) Man marking vs zonal in midfield: Ten Hag has been on record saying that is not how we are supposed to be playing, so it clearly is a question of not getting the balance and organization right. This is Ten Hag’s responsibility of course, made difficult by Casemiro injuries and general tempo loss, Eriksen free fall defensively nd physically, Mainoo inexperience, McTominay tactical weakness, Bruno despite high work ethic lacking disciplinary coolness when others waver, and Mount being injured. Again, I don’t know who is to blame for this confluence in each case, but the toral makes for a midfield that ends up chasing people way to much, shedding positional discipline way to easily.
3) Frontline press. Again, this worked much better last season. Again, an issue is that if one out of six players hestitate, it undermines the whole set up, spreading the hestitation to other players. When the front row is a 19-year old, a 20-year old and Marcus Rashford, and four attacking players struggling mentally for various reasons, it is likely to be vulnerable. Again, you could have a decent discussion about who is responsible for this situation, in either case, it can easily look different than planned.
So my guessing about your good questions, circulate mostly around the assumption that what we see is far from what is planned, and that there are so many factors that Ten Hag has changed from saying ‘this is not the plan, we didn’t follow the principles’ to ‘the players fought hard, this wasn’t bad’ in order to deflect criticism and protect the general mood and confidence in the squad from the press.
Again, I don’t claim to know all of this, or at least not the extent to which it explains how we look, and I’m no expert at all, but I’m not really surprised we look thoroughly disjointed for large parts of the games. I know Ten Hag has put out very different teams over several seasons which have not looked like that though.
We just don't claim to be a big clubI think that the refusal of Hannover 96 supporters to accept anything but consistently hauling in the biggest trophies has led to their dominant position in German and International football.
I rather watch the matches and it is amazingly rare to see OT having a a go at the team for being shit. They can do whatever they want, the stadium will support them most of the time.Go and look at match day thread and see if you still think that!
Anybody remember my semi reliable scoops about INEOS?
ETH is gone end of the season.
Very interesting. Hope you're right again.He is gone, mutual agreement, end of season.
Nagelsman offered terms.
Can't see Zidane ever taking Utd job,the others have a chance of managing us at some point. Hopeful that Nagelsmann gets the job IF we do make the change in the summerThiago Motta
Xavi
Nagelsmann
Zidane
These should be our targets
Going to the match is supposed to mean going to support your team, I used to go to OT in the 70's and 80's when we were often much crapper than we are now and the support was just the same, online though it's a different beast,We just don't claim to be a big club
I rather watch the matches and it is amazingly rare to see OT having a a go at the team for being shit. They can do whatever they want, the stadium will support them most of the time.
Yes I can do it!We should maybe try AI managers next
Couldn't remember clearly anymore. We did have decent CL run, though.We weren’t even fighting for 4th that season.
Ridiculous. They are all older than Casemiro and Varane and Erickson; and probably slower than them and no where near match fit. We've got to get away from this recruitment policy.Thiago Motta
Xavi
Nagelsmann
Zidane
These should be our targets
I’m not sure fans walking around claiming to be a big club is necessarily what makes for club success.We just don't claim to be a big club
I rather watch the matches and it is amazingly rare to see OT having a a go at the team for being shit. They can do whatever they want, the stadium will support them most of the time.
To be fair arguably the loudest period of protests against the Glazers was from the initial takeover to the Green and Gold protest, which coincided with the most successful period in the clubs history.I’m not sure fans walking around claiming to be a big club is necessarily what makes for club success.
The support has been like that for most/all of Ferguson’s era, it didn’t prevent us from being successful. Liverpool similarily. Emptihad has never had neither support nor protest when dominating the league.
In fact you could look at the periods when United have had the most loud protests against the club (directed towards the Glazers, not the players) and see that they have coincided with particularily barren spells, which makes you wonder
I was the same, but because of the unparalleled success of the Fergie years, we were spoilt for a long time and this has affected how most fans feel entitled that we should compete for the title every season. This last 10 years is actually the norm over the whole Utd period. Let’s hope Ineos can at least give us some semblance of Fergies dominance.Going to the match is supposed to mean going to support your team, I used to go to OT in the 70's and 80's when we were often much crapper than we are now and the support was just the same, online though it's a different beast,
Hope you’re right (or at least your source is).He is gone, mutual agreement, end of season.
Nagelsman offered terms.
Keep an eye on it , I was told they are making the change , they had always planned to make the change and they view the club as completely broken from top to bottom (coaching , staff etc) they want a completely new slate regardless of how ETH does this season.Hope you’re right (or at least your source is).
It fits with the INEOS MO of wanting relatively young managers, like previously reported as well as proof of that in Farioli at Nice (34 y/o) and Magnin at Lausanne (44 y/o)
And honestly he’s probably the best realistic option out there. He’d have been my pick anyway.
I disagree. I am a long term fan, I watched many dreadful games at OT but some good ones too. I caught the Docherty era, Sexton, Atkinson etc. Its not being spoilt to expect a bare minumum of exciting, attacking football, which the Doc and big Ron generally delivered. Given our financial power and status as one of top 3 clubs in world, we should be competing for the big trophies. A lot of that sits with the owners, but it doesnt excuse managers who cant at least deliver some decent football. Its this sort of attitude and blaming 'entitled' fans that has allowed Glazers to get away with it for so long.I was the same, but because of the unparalleled success of the Fergie years, we were spoilt for a long time and this has affected how most fans feel entitled that we should compete for the title every season. This last 10 years is actually the norm over the whole Utd period. Let’s hope Ineos can at least give us some semblance of Fergies dominance.
Hope you are right as I am very close to starting an ABE (Anyone but Erik) groupKeep an eye on it , I was told they are making the change , they had always planned to make the change and they view the club as completely broken from top to bottom (coaching , staff etc) they want a completely new slate regardless of how ETH does this season.
Well by this stage Ineos have a fair idea how well he's done this season.Keep an eye on it , I was told they are making the change , they had always planned to make the change and they view the club as completely broken from top to bottom (coaching , staff etc) they want a completely new slate regardless of how ETH does this season.
He was.Were you the guy with the INEOS source?
InterestingYes x2
Why are you only suggesting men for the job?Thiago Motta
Xavi
Nagelsmann
Zidane
These should be our targets
White men too. Disgraceful behaviourWhy are you only suggesting men for the job?
Interesting thought. Which women would you suggest? There is a lack of experienced female managers at this level (and even lower levels).Why are you only suggesting men for the job?
Sometimes I feel like a rate United higher than their own fans. To quote Gary Neville, “This is Manchester United we’re talking about”.
Manchester United are a rich club who've somehow inherited the fanbase of a lower midtable. It's one of footballs strange phenomenons.It's not only you. It's often embarassing how people claim United to be a big club and then accept them playing like some run of the mill midtable side.
That's underplaying the role of the fanbase iYes. But I do think that United's fans too easily accept mediocrity and have done so for a long time.
I may have misremembered, but as I recall the bulk of the first protests on Old Trafford was in 2005 and some way into 2006, a season which we came second and were knocked out in the group stages of the CL, but yea, fair enough, it was improvement on the previous two seasons and there where noise from the Black Banners/Green and Gold/FCUM split well into the next years.To be fair arguably the loudest period of protests against the Glazers was from the initial takeover to the Green and Gold protest, which coincided with the most successful period in the clubs history.
I get the same feeling immediately after a game especially after a bad performance where I carry on watching just to see what he has to say and almost always come out of it underwhelmed. But thinking about it a few days later, it's clear what is said to the media is as much about politics and keeping up morale as it is about anything else.This is an excellent analysis. However, one thing I don't understand is why when this (the gap in midfield) was pointed out towards him he didn't try to explain that somehow. I recall I read or heard somewhere (could talk of the devils) that they saw once that Ten Hag was shouting at defenders to not go that deep. What he's saying on the conference baffles me at most. He says the performance was good when this was tragic stuff.
As it stands, moving him on is a free hit for INEOS. If he goes then it's unlikely that they'll be criticised. Some fans will be pleased that they've been decisive. There's a risk that if they're seen to back him, he is, to some degree, their man and they wear the criticism if he performs poorly again.It makes more sense for ETH to go based on the fact that the people who made the deal for him and worked with him for the past two years, in Murtough and Arnold, are no longer there now. The Glazers are shuffled into the background in terms of day to day football club operations now too.
So his ‘allies’ at the club is pretty much zero, and the way we’ve played this season and pretty much since winning the League Cup hasn’t been great.
And if INEOS have been watching us closely since the Solskjaer days, then they’re pretty clued up on everything.. especially when Brailsford is auditing everything at the club and reportedly going to some of our ex-managers for input (I imagine Ralf gave them some stuff that they’d find most interesting with his Red Bull background).
NO WE DONTWE HAVE TO KEEP HIM