Whatever makes you happy
8
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 55
- Goals
- 13
- Assists
- 19
- Yellow cards
- 10
- Red cards
- 3
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
Whatever makes you happy
Yeah I'll try to be positive and supportive of the players of the club I love.
Insulting another member
When talking about consistency? I think it makes a difference. If you don't thats fine.
Look at you fantastic fans.
So all it took was me mentioning that I find the stats chosen to praise Bruno a little odd and only a few hours later I get my motives questioned and tips how to be a fan "the right way". Main thing is you clowns see agendas around youI wonder if Dalot did a fist pump afterwards and high-fived everyone else on the plane.
Just to keep my reputation as contructive going, I ran the numbers from Whoscored
Quot erat demonstrandum. Bruno delivers pretty good numbers. Consistency? Against the players chosen here? I'd say no but I am just a bad fan, follow my club wrongly and hate the player in question.
(edit: I saved myself the hussle to factor out half the Sporting season at the very beginners of Brunos United journey (so those numbers are included in the season where he played for both). I included all comps that Whoscored had in their list)
| Player | Apps | Minutes | Goals | Assists | G+A | G+A/Minutes |
| Bruno | 239 | 21,274 | 88 | 76 | 164 | 0.008 |
| KDB | 167 | 14,456 | 58 | 86 | 144 | 0.010 |
| Salah | 221 | 19,883 | 145 | 71 | 216 | 0.011 |
| Son | 192 | 16,804 | 91 | 48 | 139 | 0.008 |
Quot erat demonstrandum. Bruno delivers pretty good numbers. Consistency? Against the players chosen here? I'd say no but I am just a bad fan, follow my club wrongly and hate the player in question.
(edit: I saved myself the hussle to factor out half the Sporting season at the very beginners of Brunos United journey (so those numbers are included in the season where he played for both). I included all comps that Whoscored had in their list)
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That's a little unfair. I didn't mention anything to do with agendas. Simply pulling you up on the point that the players are deliberately chosen to make Bruno look better. To me it looks like a list of players with the most goals and assists from PL clubs in the period since Bruno joined us, which I think is a fair comparison to make.When talking about consistency? I think it makes a difference. If you don't thats fine.
Look at you fantastic fans.
How can you say your numbers demonstrate he doesn't match up with the consistency of other players mentioned? when his per minutes number is the same as Son's and not far off Salah and KDB? LIke what are you arguing here? Your missing per minutes number doesn't hugely change the picture.
Put Bruno in city’s team and he delivers more numbers than KDB does. It’s a simple as that. Would KDB be as effective in our team? Not sure.
What is this based on? Your own opinion? It is really not as simple as that. Kevin de Bruyne is one of the best and most creative midfielders in Premier League of all time. Bruno - while he has been exceptional in periods for us - is not.
Definitely not. We would not have had the depth to compensate for De Bruyne's patchy injury record.
Same here. So lets just not start to judge what other people do and how they express it. Surely, you are aligned with that.
Obviously most of the post wasn't directed at you.
Most likely I have just another idea of what consistency means.
Per minute numbers are rounded a lot. Given we have 5-figure numbers on the minutes site. Also pretty sure the point of the tweet and posting it here was to show how Bruno is delivering on a level that is bigger than the other players. Which would be correct - the total numbers show that. But the tweet mentioned consistency. And in terms of consistency the other players have produced similarly or more in less time, which means they are more consistent or efficient.
I argued against those numbers in the tweet being a good indicator for consistency - because it is difficult to compare that when the amount of minutes is as different as I thought it would be (which is what the numbers from whoscored confirm).
Could be. Could also be not. The nature of make-belief arguments I guess.
Thats definitely true. Brunos injury record is incredible which certainly is a big plus for him. Next to other big and not so big plus'es and some minus'. Just like with any other player.
Do you really think consistent and efficient mean the same thing?!? Because you sure as shit don’t seem to understand what consistent means.
Now if you really like your stats to be complete, add in contract years and minutes played per season. Whatever else you think of Bruno, there's a major advantage he has over De Bruyne. And it matters hugely, cause you can't plan with players whose fitness is unreliable - see United and the LB position for the most obvious example.
I come from the game of golf and there those two things come together closely more often than not. I agree, it isn't the exact same thing but I think they are close enough. Hard to imagine being consistent at something when it takes max effort, wouldn't you agree? So efficiency should be part of the equation.
Do you really think consistent and efficient mean the same thing?!? Because you sure as shit don’t seem to understand what consistent means.
So much for German consistency...
You are running in open doors. And I even mentioned his injury record as a big plus a mere hour ago.
Some of you act as if I want to take some cookies away from Bruno. I don't. I personally don't like him. Never did but that doesn't stop me from appreciating him and acknowledging what he brings and what he is good at. I'd even say he is one of the more consistent players we have in the team. Only thing I remarked here is that those numbers (from the tweet) appear to not work for proving that. At least for what I understand of the word.
I hate golf so let’s focus on the English language. Efficient and consistent are two different words that mean completely different things. Those stats you showed are interesting because they show how close Bruno’s productivity is to two of the best players to ever play in the PL. They tell us feck all definitive about how consistent or not any of them are/were other than raise the possibility that Bruno might be the most consistent because he is maintaining that productivity over a bigger sample size of games than the others.
How on earth you use that data to claim he is less consistent is genuinely baffling but is a good example of how you’ll repeatedly bend logic all out of shape in desperate attempts to belittle a player you’ve just admitted to irrationally disliking.
Aren't Salah and Bruno the only penalty kick takers out of those players? Personally, I wouldn't put penalty goals under general efficiency, even though he is one of the best penalty takers in the league. I think Maddison is very close to Bruno in terms of goals and assists in the league and I'm sure he has played significantly less. Don't think anyone is saying Maddison got crazy numbers.
You serious? Try reading up the stats. Bruno comes on top for chances created since joining the premier league. The only difference is, KDB as Haaland to finish his assists off. We don’t have a clinical ST so that’s the reason Bruno doesn’t get the assist stats he deserves but I’m pretty sure he creates more big chances than KDB
Weirdly aggressive response, but okay. You should take your own advice.
They both created 21 big chances last season. The only difference is that the Belgian did it in 1200 mins, and Bruno needed 3100 mins. The difference in efficiency is quite huge, if you ask me. Crediting Haaland for De Bruyne who has been among the best and most creative midfielder in the league for the last 10 years is bizarre. Bruno is no doubt very creative, but de Bruyne is quite clearly on another level.
i put this in another thread, but Brunos assist numbers are affected by the finishers he played alongside. If you switch to expected assists the gap ahead of Son and Salah was much larger, even measured on a per game basis.
Sorry it sounded that way. De Bruyne is world class obviously. But I think it’s quite harsh to compare the 2 when one’s playing in a team that’s been dominant for the past 5 years or so. If you look at it that way then Bruno as been better because he’s carried a worse team, plus what gives Bruno the advantage is that he’s never injured so he’s also more reliable than KDB. Ones playing in a much better team so will win more trophies… if we want to go further and compare them for their country’s then Bruno probably comes out top in that one.
One could also flip that argument to make a case for why he plays for City in the first place, and why they have been so dominant with him as their key player, and have won so much with him. City have been buying some of the best talents and players for years now, and I think it is safe to say Pep would not have been as successful with City if they had our squad, even if our players would be better under his system.
You could probably also use your argument for any player. Agüero being better than Lukaku because he played for City, Ruben Dias is better than Maguire because he plays for City, et cetera. But these players play for a top team for a reason, and not a mid table team, feels bad to admit it, but unfortunately that is our current level.
Bruno’s issue has never been his end product - granted I think his finishing has gotten gradually weaker during his time with us. But either way, he’s obviously a highly productive player and hence a very good one.
However, his weaknesses lie beyond the stats, especially in the context of a club that used to win major trophies and aims to get back to doing so - can’t really dribble, doesn’t have much acceleration, prone to turnovers / struggled in congested spaces and doesn’t really have much strength to speak of.
He is highly creative but damages control and buildup play. For me, I see him as one of those heroes for a weak era type players - like De Gea but not quite at the same freakish elite level the Spaniard hit in this pomp.
So it is Bruno's fault that the managers decide that we play a counter attacking style? Have you seen Bruno in a Portugese shirt? he is alot more controlled with his play.
You mention things about control and build up play.. let me ask you a question.. In football, what is the purpose of build up play?
It feels like we have different purposes.. for me build up play is to be create goals and score goals so we win games.. looks like for you its to have control.
Would you prefer a more LVG approach? where we keep the ball so we have more control and build up?
1. Bruno isn’t well suited to controlling games given all the times we’ve seen us trying to and him being a turnover machine. Very good player but not a great one and unsuited to dominant / top class teams. I think we need him right now as he’s our best player but I’d slowly phase him out as we (hopefully) develop a great team.
2. The purpose of buildup play is to attempt to dictate and dominate the game as much as possible so as to give you the best chance of winning. We are crap at it and hence don’t dominate many games. Rashford scoring 30 goals or Bruno getting 30 goals / assists doesn’t change the fact that the collective failed and their weaknesses didn’t help.
3. Your concept of buildup will result in another decade of mediocrity.
4. What’s an “LVG approach”? LVG was a hugely successful manager who came to us past his expiry date. After his stint here caused possessionphobic United to have an irrational hatred for dominant footy, both Pep and Klopp won the league in England and CL in Europe, having control of 90 per cent of football. Generally even the great sides that successfully played more direct football were capable of domination and their midfielders tended to be very hard to dispossess (see Madrid or Bayern under Hyckes). You can’t be a top side while treating the ball like a hot potato when things are congested. Our modern day stars like Bruno and Rashford struggle with this. Obviously Bruno is a very good player and Rashford is bang average but the underlying point remains.
1. Do you think Amorim plays a controlling style? If so, I suspect you dont think Bruno plays in this team? Well, he is 30 so will get phased out anyway.
2. You do realise to get the best chance of winning, is to score goals? create goals? Your statement saying we have collectively failed and name 2 players, so what the rest of the players have done well have they? So what do we get rid of all 25 players as they have all failed?
3. Your concept of build up and controlling will amount to nothing either.. to win games you have to score goals, to do that you cant just control and pass the ball around, you need players to create goals.
4. I dont care what LVG did anywhere else, I am talking about what he did at Manchester United, which is the topic here. Treating it like a hot potato means they are hoofing the ball, when I have seen Bruno play first time passes, flicks, that result in an assist. You are acting as if Bruno has like 20% ball retention or something.
Do you think that perhaps it’s a little easier to create for a team that constantly dominates possession and spends the entirety of most games camped in the opposition half?
That’s what makes Bruno’s stats even more impressive. Not only is he trying to create for attackers whose movement and finishing is miles off the very best he’s been trying to do it from an incredibly shaky platform due to our central midfielders also being well below par.
In theory, yeah. In practice, no. What I do think is that it is notably easier to create when afforded space, something City aren't being given too much because as you say, they are regularly camped in the opposition half with 8-9 players in defense, so how can one player consistently find openings? They are reliant on movement and quick passing rather than just giving the ball to de Bruyne to create out of nothing.
I don't think it is a secret that Bruno himself struggles to create chances when the opposition are mostly defending, but rather - he is unreal when counter attacking and he can instinctively send excellent long passes to the wingers. Obviously de Bruyne is good at this too, but he is significantly better at finding openings and he is more known for his pinpoint accuracy.
Even in that nerdy Pep team De Bruyne's best passes and assists are typically long balls and crosses... Just saying.
Yeah, but does KdB need a free roaming role and two defensive midfielders to "unlock" him? That is the question.
You mean DM's like Fred and McTominay?
Or Ugarte and Casemiro. Workhorses, yeah.
His point was that Bruno needs 2 DM's to be unlocked but his best period at the club came when he had McFred as DM's or Matic and Pogba.. none of those combinations equalled to 2 DM's.
Ugarte and Casemiro have only played together recently and Bruno has rediscovered his goal scoring form.
So, he does look better with two workhorses behind him?
1. I have no idea. It’s time to wait, watch and hope. I think we have a long way to go before we compete for major honours so it only makes sense to keep hold, make use and get the best out of our best player. As already mentioned in my last post, I’d start planning for life without Bruno for when we’re ready to dominate and ensure his successor is the right one.
2. Yes but things like score goals and create goals don’t exist in a vaccum. They happen through a system that’s built to dominate with players that can support it. Bruno is highly creative but often hurts the overall play. As I’ve already said, he’s too good relative to the quality of our squad to drop. But I don’t see us ever winning a league with him so I’d start planning for his his replacement to be ready to star within the next 2 years.
3. All great teams buildup and control. It’s not my concept it’s just what top teams have to do. It’s dominant and it’s effective rather than having a player or two collate stats and the collective being disjoin and crap.
4. Well you brought up a past it LVG so it’s your problem is your go to example of control and domination is him.
Ofcourse he does, so do the defence.. its called having a team balance.
Finally, we agree. To get the best out of him, certain accommodations need to be made. And that's the main reason KdB will always be a much better fit for a team whose goal is to dominate possession. IMHO, it's also the reason why no "big dog" has approached us, in our sorry state, with an offer for him, despite his fantastic numbers.
The fact people are splitting hairs over various nuances of similar looking stats produced by Bruno and KdB says it all really. One of these players will be indisputably recognised as one of the best ever PL players. The other is being blamed by some of his own team fans as the main reason for the failings of that team. Something doesn’t compute.