Palestinian Window Chucking

Fearless

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You couldn't make it up..

Hamas and Fatah took their fight to two Gaza Strip hospitals on Monday, killing 10 people and wounding more than 25. Separately, a Palestinian was thrown from a tall building in Gaza City in the second incident of its kind in 24 hours.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1181570247333&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

And Israel's supposed to make peace with these animals?

Surely it's time to boycott Israeli glaziers?
 

holyland red

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The first one was thrown off the roof of a 15-storey building. What's the stats on the second incident?

Got a youtube link btw?
 

Frosty

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You couldn't make it up..

Hamas and Fatah took their fight to two Gaza Strip hospitals on Monday, killing 10 people and wounding more than 25. Separately, a Palestinian was thrown from a tall building in Gaza City in the second incident of its kind in 24 hours.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1181570247333&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

And Israel's supposed to make peace with these animals?

Surely it's time to boycott Israeli glaziers?

That would be all Palestinians would it? I'd be careful with the use of language like that.
 

holyland red

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17 killed in Gaza Strip infighting including senior Dahlan aide

By Avi Issacharoff, Haaretz Correspondent and News Agencies

Rival Palestinian gunmen exchanged fire at two Gaza hospitals, and Cabinet ministers fled their weekly meeting after the government headquarters was hit in crossfire Monday, in the latest round in an increasingly brutal power struggle between Hamas and Fatah.

In all, 17 Palestinians were killed Monday and early Tuesday, including three shot dead in Beit Hanoun Hospital in northern Gaza. At Gaza's largest hospital, Shifa in Gaza City, combatants fired mortars, grenades and assault rifles.

In spite of a Fatah announcement of a unilateral cease-fire, Naim al-Dahdouh, a senior member of the Hamas military wing, was killed late Monday and the exchanges of fire continued.
After sundown, gunmen, apparently from Hamas, laid siege to the house of Jamal Abu al-Jediyan, the senior Fatah official in northern Gaza, then dragged him outside and killed him, security officials said. Medics said he was hit by 45 bullets.

Al-Jedian was the Secretary General of the Fatah movement in the northern Gaza Strip and a co-founder of the Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade. He was also a close associate of Mohammed Dahlan, a Fatah strongman and Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas' security adviser. In the past, Abu-Jedian had been the target of several Hamas assassination attempts.

Palestinian sources said Al-Jedian had been executed outside his home. Medics said 45 bullets had been used in his assassination.

Fatah spokesman Maher Mikdad harshly denounced the killing. "What is this, if not a war," he said, pledging revenge. In a message, Fatah called on its members to target all Hamas political and military leaders.

Nabil Abu Rdeneh, an aide to Abbas, said no end was in sight. "You can see for yourself there's no taste for a cease-fire right now," he told The Associated Press by telephone, blaming Hamas.

The frustrated head of the Egyptian security delegation, Maj. Gen. Burhan Hamad, who has been trying to negotiate a truce, told Palestinian TV he would call the people out onto the streets to protest if the two rivals do not agree to stand down.

Two others were killed in battles late Monday in northern Gaza, Palestinian security and hospital officials said.

Later, Hamas said one of its men, who was kidnapped earlier, was found dead in a Gaza street.

Early Tuesday, three women and a child were killed when Hamas militants
attacked the home of a senior Fatah security official with mortars and
grenades, Palestinian security officials said. The gunmen seized Hassan Abu Rabie and killed his 14-year-old son and three other women in the house, hospital officials said.

Also, Fatah gunmen stormed the house of a Hamas lawmaker and burned it to the ground.

Earlier Monday, Hamas gunmen killed Fatah intelligence officer Yasser Bakar, and his 16-year old brother. The incident prompted members of his family to launch a revenge shooting spree. Two members of Hamas, barricaded inside Gaza's biggest hospital, Shifa, were killed during the melee.

Hospital officials reported that Bakar gunmen began firing mortars and rocket-propelled grenades at Shifa Hospital, drawing Hamas fire from inside the building. During the Shifa fighting, top Hamas militant Mazen Ajur was killed. Another member of the Bakar clan was also killed.

In separate fighting at a hospital in Beit Hanun, three people were killed and at least 10 were wounded. The dead were identified as 'Id al-Masri and his two sons, Farej and Ibrahim, of the al-Masri clan, which has ties to the Fatah movement.

Mohammed Odeh, a volunteer for the Red Crescent rescue service, said one of the dead had been shot at close range. Hospital officials reported that the three victims were at the hospital being treated for injuries.

In another incident in Beit Lahia, Hamas member Bassel al-Caparna was also killed.

Hospital authorities announced that they were suspending their work in view of the clashes inside the hospital.

The clashes had reignited after the cease-fire had been put in place with a gun battle outside the parliament building in Gaza City, while the Palestinian cabinet was meeting.

The cease-fire was implemented after gunmen carried out a pre-dawn attack on the home of Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh of Hamas, and also targeted the offices of the Hamas-run Culture Ministry. Culture Minister Bassem Naim was inside the building at the time at the attack, said his sister Huda. There were no injuries, she said, accusing Fatah of trying to kill her brother.

"It was the Fatah gangs. There was no justification. We were at work, and the ministry came under fire," a ministry official, identified only as Ahmed, told Hamas' Al-Aqsa radio station.

Fatah spokesman Maher Mekdad said the gunfire at the Culture Ministry erupted after Hamas snipers on the roof fired at a security convoy. "The security men returned fire," he said.

The attacks came after two militants, ¬ first one from Fatah and later a Hamas member, ¬ were dragged onto the roofs of Gaza high-rises and thrown to their deaths.
There were no reports of casualties in the attack on Haniyeh's house in the Shati refugee camp, adjacent to Gaza City. His office wouldn't say whether he was inside, but his family said that his wife, children and grandchildren had been at home.

It was the first time in a month of infighting that Haniyeh was an apparent target.

The two sides have been locked in a violent power struggle since Hamas defeated Fatah in January 2006 legislative elections, ending four decades of Fatah rule.
----------------------

Each one of these would have the CE flooded with condemnations if Israel was involved. As things turn out to be, LABOB et al are nowhere to be seen.
I still wouldn't rule out FS popping up blaming the Israeli occupation.
 

holyland red

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That would be all Palestinians would it? I'd be careful with the use of language like that.
If you look closely at this paragraph from the report above, you'll realize that it's quite difficult not to:

"Al-Jedian was the Secretary General of the Fatah movement in the northern Gaza Strip and a co-founder of the Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade. He was also a close associate of Mohammed Dahlan, a Fatah strongman and Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas' security adviser. In the past, Abu-Jedian had been the target of several Hamas assassination attempts."


The founder of Al-Aqsa brigades is also a security advisor and a close associate of the so-called Palestinian moderates...
 

holyland red

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Why is Israel in the West Bank?
because it was attacked from the WB in June 1967, and captured the territory in a defensive war. Last week marked the 40th anniversary of the war, and most newspapers took the chance to recap on the historic events. I'm surprised that an intelligent curious person like you missed out on some important details.
 

Fearless

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I'm surprised that an intelligent curious person like you missed out on some important details.
And you can bet that 99.9% of anti Israel, Stop The War, Union members don't know why either.

Such facts will totally undermine their egotistical messiah bollox, having to admit that it was the Israelis who were the bullied underdogs who came good.
 

Frosty

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because it was attacked from the WB in June 1967, and captured the territory in a defensive war. Last week marked the 40th anniversary of the war, and most newspapers took the chance to recap on the historic events. I'm surprised that an intelligent curious person like you missed out on some important details.
And you can bet that 99.9% of anti Israel, Stop The War, Union members don't know why either.

Such facts will totally undermine their egotistical messiah bollox, having to admit that it was the Israelis who were the bullied underdogs who came good.
The leadership of the Arab world thought they could destroy Israel. They were wrong. Israel even managed to cripple a US battleship, so I can't see how Egypt's, Jordan's and the rests armies could have won under any circumstances.

There is now no way that Israel will 'cease to exist'. In that respect, the 1967 War was a resounding success. Now Israel has nuclear weapons, other countries know that they are risking destruction themselves if they seek to destroy Israel.
 

born&raisedred

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The leadership of the Arab world thought they could destroy Israel. They were wrong. Israel even managed to cripple a US battleship, so I can't see how Egypt's, Jordan's and the rests armies could have won under any circumstances.

There is now no way that Israel will 'cease to exist'. In that respect, the 1967 War was a resounding success. Now Israel has nuclear weapons, other countries know that they are risking destruction themselves if they seek to destroy Israel.
from what i understand both the isreali's and arabs were equally aggressive, the isreali's won due to tactical ineptness by egypt and gaza strip and west was illegally occupied as they have some bullshit religious claim, using the proposition of a defensive war as a smoke screen. in the instance the defensive war bollocks is by some far stretch of the imagination true, why invade a country that was not actively involved and furthermore why treat the inhabitants like second class citizens. why they continue to bulldoze palestinian villages, comit genocide and behave no better than the germans in 1940. the simple reason is racial hatred and as with any instance and under any circumstances ratial hatred should not be tolerated, ala south africa
 

Fearless

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in the instance the defensive war bollocks is by some far stretch of the imagination true, why invade a country that was not actively involved and furthermore why treat the inhabitants like second class citizens.
You see this is the kind of cack that I'm talking about.

Clealry a senior member of the UCU.


Somebody educate him quickly......Jason?
 

born&raisedred

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You see this is the kind of cack that I'm talking about.

Clealry a senior member of the UCU.


Somebody educate him quickly......Jason?
whats this educate him business about? is it some code for 'stick a pillow case over his head and beat him with a sock full of batteries'
 

VanNistelrater

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because it was attacked from the WB in June 1967, and captured the territory in a defensive war. Last week marked the 40th anniversary of the war, and most newspapers took the chance to recap on the historic events. I'm surprised that an intelligent curious person like you missed out on some important details.
I know very well why they do, I was just wondering whether you could keep the cyber version of a straight face when you said it.

40 years...

You're still there. Under that logic I suppose Britain can justify still occupying Germany, or is there a cut off point?

I like many have little sympathy with Israel while they, contrary to international law, continue to occupy land that is not theirs (West Bank) with the only defence being a security threat that they continue to exacerbate with their presence and a horrific event in Europe 60 years ago that they continue to use to shame people into accepting their actions.
 

born&raisedred

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the irony of the coralation between the ill-treatment of jewish communities accross europe and the rest of the world (not just germany) and the way the isreali's treat the arab inhabitants of that area should not be lost. it is a well known fact that the abused become abusers, but it is time for the global community to shelve its guilt for past actions and enforce sanctions like those placed on south africa. the disregard for human rights and international law should be punished regardless of past atrocities against the offending nation.
 

Frosty

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from what i understand both the isreali's and arabs were equally aggressive, the isreali's won due to tactical ineptness by egypt and gaza strip and west was illegally occupied as they have some bullshit religious claim, using the proposition of a defensive war as a smoke screen. in the instance the defensive war bollocks is by some far stretch of the imagination true, why invade a country that was not actively involved and furthermore why treat the inhabitants like second class citizens. why they continue to bulldoze palestinian villages, comit genocide and behave no better than the germans in 1940. the simple reason is racial hatred and as with any instance and under any circumstances ratial hatred should not be tolerated, ala south africa
Godwin's law strikes again ;)

I don't support many of the Israeli tactics in the West Bank and Gaza, I will make that clear, but weren't Jordan 'actively involved'? Didn't they launch attacks from the West Bank to Israel?
 

holyland red

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Godwin's law strikes again ;)

I don't support many of the Israeli tactics in the West Bank and Gaza, I will make that clear, but weren't Jordan 'actively involved'? Didn't they launch attacks from the West Bank to Israel?
I think he means Palestine...the country that never was. He's also not aware of the naval blockade on Israel, and evacuation of UN forces from Sinai in the month leading to the war. That's why he understood both sides were aggressive (although the Jews are the Nazis in this story).
 

holyland red

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I know very well why they do, I was just wondering whether you could keep the cyber version of a straight face when you said it.

40 years...

You're still there. Under that logic I suppose Britain can justify still occupying Germany, or is there a cut off point?

I like many have little sympathy with Israel while they, contrary to international law, continue to occupy land that is not theirs (West Bank) with the only defence being a security threat that they continue to exacerbate with their presence and a horrific event in Europe 60 years ago that they continue to use to shame people into accepting their actions.
Bollox. Nobody in their right mind would have retreated from a territory while its enemy still vows to keep attempting ones destruction.
That ocupation of a people has to end is clear to the vast majority of Israelis and their leaders, but going back to the topic of this thread, there is simply no one who could take control of the territory and be responsible for a peaceful state next to Israel.

Since you're such an expert on the history of the conflict, you may recall that the Arab League met in Khartoum following the 6-day war and voed to never normalize relations with Israel, even if the territories are returned.

40 years, and nothing has changed.

I also thought I'd help with the historical analogy in reminding you that "Palestine" was occupied by Egypt and Jordan for 19 years prior to 1967. Any idea what historical event did these two use to shame people into accepting their actions? I'm sure you were aware of that, but just thought it was odd it never got a mention on this board.
 

Mozza

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Bollox. Nobody in their right mind would have retreated from a territory while its enemy still vows to keep attempting ones destruction.
That ocupation of a people has to end is clear to the vast majority of Israelis and their leaders, but going back to the topic of this thread, there is simply no one who could take control of the territory and be responsible for a peaceful state next to Israel.

Since you're such an expert on the history of the conflict, you may recall that the Arab League met in Khartoum following the 6-day war and voed to never normalize relations with Israel, even if the territories are returned.

40 years, and nothing has changed.

I also thought I'd help with the historical analogy in reminding you that "Palestine" was occupied by Egypt and Jordan for 19 years prior to 1967. Any idea what historical event did these two use to shame people into accepting their actions? I'm sure you were aware of that, but just thought it was odd it never got a mention on this board.
Egypt and Jordan have made peace with you, so things do change, Israel as ever is unwilling to negotiate as long as it can grab more land under occupation.
 

Frosty

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Bollox. Nobody in their right mind would have retreated from a territory while its enemy still vows to keep attempting ones destruction.
That ocupation of a people has to end is clear to the vast majority of Israelis and their leaders, but going back to the topic of this thread, there is simply no one who could take control of the territory and be responsible for a peaceful state next to Israel.
Is the important point
 

VanNistelrater

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Bollox. Nobody in their right mind would have retreated from a territory while its enemy still vows to keep attempting ones destruction.
That ocupation of a people has to end is clear to the vast majority of Israelis and their leaders, but going back to the topic of this thread, there is simply no one who could take control of the territory and be responsible for a peaceful state next to Israel.

Since you're such an expert on the history of the conflict, you may recall that the Arab League met in Khartoum following the 6-day war and voed to never normalize relations with Israel, even if the territories are returned.

40 years, and nothing has changed.

I also thought I'd help with the historical analogy in reminding you that "Palestine" was occupied by Egypt and Jordan for 19 years prior to 1967. Any idea what historical event did these two use to shame people into accepting their actions? I'm sure you were aware of that, but just thought it was odd it never got a mention on this board.
Im certainly no expert, but I have no loyalties either way and it allows me to see things a little clearer, I would argue.

If you keep illegally occupying land then it is always going to fuel the fire and hatred towards the occupier. When people are angry and feel an injustice has been done, they are far more suceptible to extreme ideas like 'destroying' Israel.

Like I said im no expert on this and correct me if im wrong, but werent Hamas or Fatah pretty close to agreeing a two state solution before the Lebanon war last year disrupted things?

If Israel offered a viable two state solutions, for example one that didnt take all the aquaducts and other resources, and stopped resettling people in land that isnt theirs then id imagine it would go a long way to pacifying the Palestinians. If from there there was a threat to Israels existence in terms of military attack I dont think the international community would deny Israel a right to respond.

Unfortunately we have to take a realist perpsective and admit none of this will happen, Israel will never relinquish power whilst it doesnt have to. But like Britain and America exacerbate the security threat by being in Iraq, id say the same goes for Israel in the West Bank.
 

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Im certainly no expert, but I have no loyalties either way and it allows me to see things a little clearer, I would argue.

If you keep illegally occupying land then it is always going to fuel the fire and hatred towards the occupier. When people are angry and feel an injustice has been done, they are far more suceptible to extreme ideas like 'destroying' Israel.

Like I said im no expert on this and correct me if im wrong, but werent Hamas or Fatah pretty close to agreeing a two state solution before the Lebanon war last year disrupted things?

If Israel offered a viable two state solutions, for example one that didnt take all the aquaducts and other resources, and stopped resettling people in land that isnt theirs then id imagine it would go a long way to pacifying the Palestinians. If from there there was a threat to Israels existence in terms of military attack I dont think the international community would deny Israel a right to respond.
Unfortunately we have to take a realist perpsective and admit none of this will happen, Israel will never relinquish power whilst it doesnt have to. But like Britain and America exacerbate the security threat by being in Iraq, id say the same goes for Israel in the West Bank.
You said it all there.....Israel needs permission to defend itself because we have to suck oil from the Arab titty.

Look, lets stop this 2 state solution bollox, it's more worn out than my Nolan Sisters vinyl collection. The fact that some of the posters here no feck all about the problem yet seem to have all the answers underscores this lunacy.

Until the world demands that Jordan and Egypt - instead of Israel - come to the table with a viable land share agreement with the Palestinians who they refugeed, then nothing but nothing will happen.

I mean how much more proof can the world want?
 

born&raisedred

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Negotiate with who Mozza?

Clearly the Palestinians can't even negotiate with themselves
and will continue to struggle whilst political turmiol is exacerbated by israeli agrression, the prospect of any form of stability is inconcievable in a country that is subject to a hostile occupying force, what viable political leadership can be formed and can command the confidence of the nation that does not vocally condemn the occupation, the problem is the moderates can not be moderate because of the political situation whilst the extremists thrive. the only way to see if the situation can be rectified is to allow a neutral third party nation in to mediate, violence on both sides would have to stop and concesion would probably have to come from isreal initially, but the ending of hostilities does not suit the right wing in isreal and palestine and the continuation of violence perpwetuates the notion that only force will resolve the situation.
 

Frosty

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Hamas launches new Gaza attacks

Militants of the Palestinian group Hamas have begun to attack positions of rival faction Fatah in Gaza as levels of violence reach a new intensity.
Hundreds of Hamas fighters began moving on Fatah posts after giving their occupants two hours to leave.

Fatah leaders will meet later to decide whether to leave the three-month-old unity government they formed with Hamas in an effort to end factional fighting.

Some 16 people have been killed on the streets of Gaza in the past 24 hours.

The residences of both Mahmoud Abbas, Fatah's leader and the Palestinian Authority president, and of Prime Minister Ismail Haniya, of Hamas, have been targeted with gun and shell fire.

Witnesses said it was the worst fighting they had experienced in Gaza during 18 months of internal strife.

"Since early morning we have heard explosions and shooting. We can't go and buy any food, we can't stand in front of the windows, all our children are in one bedroom," said Gaza City resident Adnan.

Ransacked

A statement issued from Hamas-operated mosques had given Fatah fighters until 1100 GMT to evacuate Gaza positions.

Hamas-run radio stations said its fighters had taken control of several security positions in northern and central Gaza, and in Khan Younis in the south.

Reports said 200 Hamas fighters had surrounded about 500 Fatah men at the Gaza City headquarters of the Fatah-allied security forces.

Pro-Fatah security forces attacked Hamas's al-Aqsa TV and radio stations in Gaza, and reportedly took control of broadcasts - playing Fatah songs instead of the usual broadcasting schedule.

Former Palestinian Foreign Minister Nabil Shaath told Associated Press news agency that Hamas militants had ransacked his home in Beit Lahiya.

A cousin of Abdel Aziz Rantissi, a Hamas leader killed by Israeli forces in 2004, was reportedly kidnapped and killed by Fatah gunmen.

Mr Abbas accused some Hamas figures of "planning a coup" against legitimate institutions". He urged an immediate ceasefire and talks to end the bloodletting.

A spokesman for Fatah said it would meet at 2000 (1700 GMT) to decide the future of the unity government.

There have been a number of ceasefires in the last month but all have been short-lived.

'No interest in talks'

The BBC's Tim Franks, in Jerusalem, says that inside Gaza most people are now staying indoors listening to the violence rage outside.

The fighting has been intense and brutal with few places considered to be safe and with hospitals becoming battlegrounds, he says.

In one incident, a senior member of the al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, linked to Fatah, was shot 41 times while in a hospital bed in the town of Beit Hanoun.

The International Committee of the Red Cross said it was "deeply disturbed by the events in Gaza over the last two days, particularly the attacks in and around two hospitals in the northern part of the Gaza Strip".

Frustrated Egyptian mediators said the rival factions appeared uninterested in talks.

The head of the mediation team, Lt Col Burhan Hamad, said: "It seems they don't want to come. We must make them ashamed of themselves. They have killed all hope. They have killed the future."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6744713.stm

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Since it is relevant
 

Mozza

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And what evidence brings you this summation?
Do you really think it is impossible for Hamas to do 2 things at once?

Besides which Fatah would loose the support of the West as the only reason they have it at the moment is Israels refusal to have anything to do with Hamas, without that they'd cease to be a power in Palestine.