We were shit against Sampdoria so...
UEFA Super Cup
Real Madrid 2:1 Manchester United
Philip II Arena, Skopje, Macedonia
- Kick-off
- Tue, 8 August 2017 @ 7:45pm BST
- Status
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Closed
Discussion Your Lineup Prediction
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- Status
I really want you guys to win, but I just can't see it happen.
You all saw what Real did to Juve and Atletico this season. Two teams that had a reputation for being tight defensively. Real bulldozed right through them.
Whether Ronaldo plays or not doesn't matter. What matters is whether the midfield diamond of Modric, Kroos, Casemiro, and Isco play. If they do, then I can only see one outcome.What's the general feeling about Matic starting this one ? Yay or Nay.
I'd start him. Best to get him up to speed as soon as possible.
We've played it a few times actually including the Sampdoria game and LA Galaxy game and I think for a half of one other game
EDIT: Also we won against Sampdoria and Mkhi scored so not sure what you mean about it not working well. The team played well in the system.
Not like we are spoiled for choices at DM when playing against a top side like Madrid. 'Course he should play.
I don't know if I'm alone in this but, bar the first half of the first game in pre-season, I think we've been pretty rubbish.Anyone think TFM could work well in a centre back 3 along with lindelof and bailly?
It does matter, trust me.
It's not that we're favorites if he doesn't play but rather them being favorites if he does
I certainly wouldn't agree with that. Barcelona game was the only one where we were really poor apart from Pogba who was excellent. 1st half of Real game was good but 2nd half was very bad. Apart from that we've been good imo. Our 2 worst performances predictably came against 2 of the best teams in the world who are simply better than us at this stage.
Tuanzebe ahead of Tfm for me as Cb.Valencia v Marcelo will be a great matchup, as will Lukaku versus any of Real's first choice CBs. This will be his first taste of elite European competition so it'll be a learning curve for him.
Wanted to see Tuanzabe start one of our pre season games, I've not seen too much of him. Think Jose prefers TFM on the right anyway doesn't he?
Maybe I'm expecting too much. Even against Sampdoria and Valerenga I was underwhelmed with our attack. In regards to that Real match, even in the first half, bar Martial, I thought we were bad. There's been some decent individual showings but, as a team, we don't look that good.
Unless José puts his faith into Martial and uses him as a starter, our wide play and attack as a whole is going to suffer immensely again in my opinion. Darmian as our LWB is going to hamper our attack so much. To be fair, the 5-3-2 will probably look a lot better when we get both Rojo and Bailly starting again, and start all Matic, Pogba and Herrera together which we haven't done yet, but, so far, I'm not a fan.
We've looked solid as a unit, but I have to agree. Going forward, we've looked pretty toothless.
That said, I do think we've looked at our best in a 352.
I would make some minor changes to make us more attacking, though.
Lingard in for Darmian - We need someone who has the energy to get up and down, but also has the ability to beat a player a delivery a good cross. Lingard played in the first game, where we arguably looked our best throughout the whole of pre season, and he was probably our best player.
Obviously, we could do with an upgrade in this position, but for now, I would use Lingard
Rashford in for Mkhitaryan - Mkhitaryan didn't look too bad against Sampdoria. Could have had a hat trick. I'm just desperate to see what a partnership of Rashford and Lukaku can do. Two out and out strikers, who have contrasting attributes to compliment each other.
Rashford to run in behind, whilst Lukaku holds it up and brings others into play. Traditionally, this is normally how two up top play.
More recently, we have seen it with Higuain and Dybala, who also operated in a 352, at times.
Centre midfielders
Pereira, despite having a poor game against Sampdoria, did a lot of willing running from him. In a 352, it's imperative that your centre midfielders push wide and create attacking overloads with the wing backs. That could be centre midfielders overlapping wing back, or vice versa. Pogba did this very well at Juventus, and used to link incredibly well with Evra. Basically, they need to become wide midfielders when in possession of the ball, whilst our holding midfielder dictates the pace of the game.
It's a system we obviously still need to get used to, but I'd say in terms of balance, we've looked more promising in this system so far. Guess only time will tell, though.
What I would like to see:
De Gea
Lindelof Smalling Blind
Matic
Valencia Herrera Pogba Lingard
Lukaku Rashford
Romero Tuanzebe Darmian Fellaini Mata Mkhitaryan Martial
Have you watched the first half? It was very dynamic, both FBs were involved going forward, Matic gave stability, Miki and Lukaku were involved, so was Pogba.
Why is Bale missing this too?
Ankle injury. He might still play some part.
I understand the point you're making but I can assure you it matters greatly.
Yeah it was OK, we were the better team but then Sampdoria aren't that good so that was kind of the minimum I expected tbh. And the 2nd half was poor. All in all a dull game with a handful of moments of quality.
ITV are only concerned with cheap reality shows with fame wannabes
I think against Real Madrid we don't need someone to get up and down on that flank. Against Sampdoria (who played a 4-3-1-2, which I think Real Madrid will play) Pogba was moving onto the RB and Darmian was tucking inside. This was happening both defensively with Pogba pressing and Darmian staying back (different to the right flank where Valencia closed down the LB) and offensively where Darmian was not really an outball (unlike Valencia) and Pogba was moving into the LW position to create and run at players.Here I am hoping to see a 4-4-2 diamond
I think Jose will not use 3-5-2 against Real. It works ok against lesser quality teams, but with Real midfield, Pogba and Herrera would not operate too far away from Matic.Since Jose said he's playing Lindelof and Smalling for a reason ( which was proven to be because of Jones suspended) and it' clear we'll play with these 2 in the defense not 3 defenders. I don't think we have any secret cards or anything in this game regarding formation. It'll be a normal 4-3-3 line up but the interesting thing will be the tactics.
I don't think we'll park the bus but Jose will try for something similar to Chelsea game, trying to nullify Madrid strength points which, in absence of Ronaldo, lies heavily in the trio of the midfield and the 2 full backs. Our trio of the midifield will be in a direct battle with their trio but regarding the full backs it'll be tough to contain both Marcelo and Carvajal. Darmian is a sure starter to close on Carvajal and I expect both the wingers to heavily track back and defend during the attack, that's why Rashford will probably start on the left wing not Martial.I have a £500 bet on us not to lose. Come on Jose and Utd!
Without/ With unfit Ronaldo & Bale out for injured. Madrid can have all the possession, but they're losing game changer element. They're still dangerous but it's containable in case we can bring our best out & hit them hard on counter.Jones might still play.
That said, he will most likely lose the appeal.
Pretty much expect the appeal to be refused. We're just doing it so that we have no regrets.We're gonna win this. I can feel it. Got the week off this week (didn't plan it that way) but great to get all the season openers in.http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/fo...-heat-UEFA-Super-Cup-Real-Madrid-FYROM-Skopje
forget this match.
West Ham is what we need to be ready for.Confident about this.
3 at the back is a tricky formation to play against and I expect English sides in Europe to give a good showing of themselves because of it.Will be a great game. Hope we can start the season with a title! Last time we played the supercup I was really annoyed with us getting beaten by Zenit.
A shame my Maradona goal was not allowed
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Hope we can win it this time!We will win 2-0.It could be 4 or 5 but we'll be merciful.A nice blessing in disguise instead a humiliation.
Now seriously I think that United have good options.
Madrid didn't have the best preseason.Probably Manchester are more fit and are already quite solid.Not a team easy to break.
Juve wasn't easy either but obviously the intensity and tension is not like a C.L final. Bale is definitely the player to watch from our side.
4-5. What do you think, playing against Astana?I think it's a close call btw 4-3-3 and 3-5-2. I think 4-3-3 has a slightly higher probability of 60%
Jose favor 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 doesn't mean 3-5-2 is impossible. Our dominant 3-5-2 against Chelsea home game was an outlier where Jose surprised everyone. My point is, it depends on the logic of it. I can see the similarities btw Real and Chelsea, in terms on (replace Real to Chelsea)
1. Real is deadly on counter, which means, even if we could dominate possession, Jose wouldn't do so bcz generally speaking, in most cases, when you dominate possession you tend to commit more players up front making you more vulnerable to counter if your defense is weak/opponent's attack is deadly like Real. Jose would want us to counter as soon as we get the ball in most cases.
(Jose said post-Chelsea game that, he knew Chelsea was deadly on counter, so he would let Chelsea play the ball. (City 1-3 Chelsea was the perfect example, where City dominated possession 60-40 but Chelsea hit them on the counter to win 3-1). The fact that our possession was roughly 50-50 doesn't mean that we didn't let Chelsea play the ball, but rather almost every ManUtd player was good/outperformed, and the 3-5-2 system wasn't as defensive as Jose's usual "defensive 4-3-3" by packing the midfield, exert high pressure and playing high line, relatively speaking. The system is meant to play counter attack less defensively. So I would say this 3-5-2 is something in between "uber defensive 4-3-3" and "offensive 4-3-3". Formation is just the surface of it, it depends on how you play it, ie offensive/defensive, and players' performance.
2. Real's fullbacks are deadly. One/both of our wingback could defend/counter flexibly, nullifying their deadly fullbacks when needed, while packing the center with 3 CB and Matic to defend against Real's deadly front 3 (they are still deadly even if Ronaldo is not playing)
3. Real is vulnerable to counter. One of the main reasons is that Real play almost "all in" attack, and their fullbacks tend to commit heavily @ attack. El classico is the perfect example, where the game usually ended up with many goals on both sides.
4. Lukaku/Rashford is deadly on counter
But anyway pretty sure this would be the starting XI, except for the "red highlight"
4-3-3
------------Lukaku---------
Martial----------------Mkhi
-------Pogba---Herrera----
------------Matic-----------
Blind--Small--Lindel----Val
3-5-2 (more like 3-5-1-1)
---------------Mkhi---Lukaku----------------
Darmian-----Pogba---Herrera------Valencia
-------------------Matic-----------------------
--------Blind-----Smalling---Lindelof--------
Carrick could start over Matic for both system (Matic's proven track record and experience means he is likely to start)
For 4-3-3, Rashford could start over Martial
For 3-5-2, Rashford could start over MkhiLast edited:Think it will be a very tight and tumescent game because Mourinho will play a 'back 7' + De Gea whenever Madrid get the ball to deny their midfield from reaching BBC. Am sure Matic will play and quickly show his abilities to suffocate attacking opposition.
Mourinho's United are generally a very tough team to break down and does not lose very often. But the lack of attacking fluidity and goals in pre season means it's also unlikely we will score either.
Madrid have too many quality attacking players not to get lucky so I suspect a moment of brilliance will decide the game in their favour.
Or it will be penalties.
As an aside, I think it was a mistake to only play top teams in pre season. We should also have played a game or two against much lower opposition (was normal a few years back) so we could administer a thrashing to instill some good feelings and confidence that goals provide.Last edited:They spanked Juventus in the final, who are arguably the best in Europe at the 3-5-2 formation. Would much prefer us to use 4 at the back.The Super Cup isn't of huge importance so it's not the same as playing Madrid in the Champions League final where they play possessed to win that competition. I reckon they will be a little disjointed after not the best pre-season so if we're on our game we can cause them problems. Hopefully Ronaldo is missing as they always have to turn to him in crucial matches and he always delivers. If he was playing he would 100% score as he did last time against us.
It all depends on how we approach the game. It's still a big game for us being back against the elite of Europe and Jose will want to win. If he has something up his sleeve and plays a really strong team then we have a chance. Obviously it might be a park-the-bus job and a drab 1-0 but trying to play on the offensive all game against Madrid would be suicide. We have to be realistic that although this is a glamour fixture because we are a huge club like them, we still aren't on their level footballing wise. It's a Jose masterclass or a defeat for me - I'd be very surprised if we brushed them aside although you never know with these games.
I hope to see Martial start as I don't think Rashford on the left is a good idea against such a top team, although he always puts a shift in so Jose may choose him. A midfield of Pogba, Matic and Herrera would be brilliant but he'll probably go with Fellaini which could go either way. Lindleof seems to have done okay in the last couple of pre-season games so we should give him a start for his confidence despite him maybe not being aggressive enough yet.
I'm going to be optimistic and say we'll win 2-1. Mkhitaryan to score twice.- Status
Man of the Match
Runners-up
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12%
Marouane Fellaini
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11%
David de Gea
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4%
Chris Smalling
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3%
Antonio Valencia
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3%
Romelu Lukaku
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2%
Henrikh Mkhitaryan
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2%
Marcus Rashford
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1%
Paul Pogba
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1%
Matteo Darmian
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1%
Victor Lindelof
Player Ratings
Total Average Rating
Highest Rated Player
Lowest Rated Player
Compiled from 623 ratings.
Score Predictions
402,320,133
- Man Utd win
- Real Madrid win
- Draw
Detailed Results
- 30% Real Madrid 1:2 Man Utd
- 17% Real Madrid 2:1 Man Utd
- 9% Real Madrid 1:1 Man Utd
- 8% Real Madrid 3:1 Man Utd
- 6% Real Madrid 2:0 Man Utd
- 5% Real Madrid 2:2 Man Utd
- 4% Real Madrid 0:1 Man Utd
- 4% Real Madrid 2:3 Man Utd
- 4% Real Madrid 1:3 Man Utd
- 3% Real Madrid 0:2 Man Utd
- 2% Real Madrid 1:0 Man Utd
- 2% Real Madrid 3:0 Man Utd
- 2% Real Madrid 0:5 Man Utd
- 1% Real Madrid 3:2 Man Utd
- 1% Real Madrid 0:0 Man Utd
- 1% Real Madrid 0:3 Man Utd
- 1% Real Madrid 4:1 Man Utd
- 0% Real Madrid 5:0 Man Utd
- 0% Real Madrid 5:5 Man Utd
- 0% Real Madrid 4:0 Man Utd
- 0% Real Madrid 2:4 Man Utd
- 0% Real Madrid 4:3 Man Utd
- 0% Real Madrid 4:5 Man Utd
- 0% Real Madrid 3:5 Man Utd
Match Stats
- Real Madrid
- Man Utd
- Possession
- 64% 36%
- Shots
- 16 13
- Shots on Target
- 6 6
- Corners
- 8 2
- Fouls
- 10 17
Referee
Gianluca Rocchi
Man Utd Lineup
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replaced by Marcus Rashford
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replaced by Marouane Fellaini
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