But surely there's nobody else available that can do better than 14 defeats in 28 matches? Surely we need to persist with a failing manager because we might be looking at sacking the next manager in 16 months time, even though many top teams like Real Madrid and Bayern Munich change their managers on a regular basis?
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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Dead man walking walking , you can't' spend that much and serve up that dross week after week and survive in a serous club,
Yup. This is why the continued "we're only X points behind 4th place" posts are just cope - there's nothing in our performances to suggest we'll be closing that gap, but rather that we'll continue to drop toward the bottom half.
He'll be sacked when the new regime is in place. Nobody with the authority to sack him currently.
Well they literally can't as they're not in charge yet.
He lost me ever since that Mount signing. Anyone with a brain cell could not see why we were going after Mason fecking mount, yet we paid 50m for that guy.
Eth is not it. Get rid!
Eth is not it. Get rid!
Could not have put it any better myself if I tried. Spot on. We are historically bad for a Manchester United team.
We are probably the worst we have ever been in last 10 years. Things are so bad that losses don't even hurt anymore, its just a disappointment for an hour or two. We have almost no chance of top-4, we are out of CL, didn't even make it to EL, we are out of league cup and we have a goal difference of an un-fecking-believable minus five in the league.
Yes we have injuries but we have looked clueless even with all players available (we lost 4 out of first 6 games of the season). There is no style of play and we only look half-good when other teams don't turn up.
The manager has to take the blame here because its foolish to keep trying the same thing and expect different outcomes (Mc Tominay, Antony being obvious examples). ETH has to go, it doesn't matter who we replace him with (may be some interim manager until the summer). There is nothing at stake right now and we have plenty of room for a new manager to try different things. Its the right time for someone new to come in.
Yes we have injuries but we have looked clueless even with all players available (we lost 4 out of first 6 games of the season). There is no style of play and we only look half-good when other teams don't turn up.
The manager has to take the blame here because its foolish to keep trying the same thing and expect different outcomes (Mc Tominay, Antony being obvious examples). ETH has to go, it doesn't matter who we replace him with (may be some interim manager until the summer). There is nothing at stake right now and we have plenty of room for a new manager to try different things. Its the right time for someone new to come in.
If you go to Mount player performance thread and go back to July/August, there were a lot of fans supporting us signing Mount and ridiculed posters showing doubts "Look at Arsenal and City, they play double 8 as well!" "two times Chelsea player of the season!" "so you know better than professional scouts and manager?"
One way we could avoid more injuries is by asking to league to give us auto-loss for all our remaining away games because we are anyways losing them. We play less games and get to conserve energy.
This + injuries aren't an excuse
Who will we bring in though? We're underperforming due to injuries and on course for a 62 pt season. Maybe once the players are back, given our relatively congestion free schedule, he might get us to 70 pts. Hopefully that's enough for CL.
I ask myself will it improve to a decent level when the injured players return. I just don't see it.
Maybe slightly better defence wise but we'll still be blunt in attack and listless on the field.
Onana will still be first team Keeper.
Antony will still exist
Mount will still be Mount
TH signed them.
And above all our two "best" players will still be absolutely average and not these world class players that some think they are.
I don't see a massive change unless we get two or three players in Jan. But that's not happening not that I'd trust him to pick any players anyway.
It's a cluster fuxk. We'll just have to stick with him until the summer and accept the fact we'll finish 9th.
We need a whole new set of players and management
Maybe slightly better defence wise but we'll still be blunt in attack and listless on the field.
Onana will still be first team Keeper.
Antony will still exist
Mount will still be Mount
TH signed them.
And above all our two "best" players will still be absolutely average and not these world class players that some think they are.
I don't see a massive change unless we get two or three players in Jan. But that's not happening not that I'd trust him to pick any players anyway.
It's a cluster fuxk. We'll just have to stick with him until the summer and accept the fact we'll finish 9th.
We need a whole new set of players and management
I don’t buy the injuries excuse. We looked just as bad and open in midfield at the start of the season, before the injuries started to pile up.
Hopefully he can hold on for a bit longer yet. We need time for the new ownership situation to play itself out and a new manager will need things to be different.
My hope is that we are starting to press better, and so when Shaw, Licha and Casemiro return we won't be as open as we were before.
I don't buy the injury excuse. Case and Martinez are the only injured players that could have made an impact, and our football was awful before they were injured.
He's full of shit. He used to loose many at Ajax every summer but did fine with the new players/young promoted ones. At United he's struggling to handle the increase in quality in the premier league and hence making excuses.
We'll still be shit at attacking though. He's proven he cannot coach attacking play in the premier league when teams sit deep.
Only sort of training I’ve seen on the pitch is that one move we do where one player passes the ball forward to a target man who passes it back to another player who then releases a through ball to a runner on the flank closest to him
For me, the period last year from November to March or thereabout, was the best we've been ever since SAF left.
Not necessarily results-wise, as Ole had that crazy run of wins,
but football-wise, and structure-wise, we finally looked like a team that can play decently against most top sides.
The Caf was full of compliments and rightly so. The second half of the season was shite, of course.
mixed feelings about his first season, couldn't really conclude anything.
This season, we are Moyes-bad. It's harder for some people to call for his head because we FINALLY appointed a manager who is of that new, progressive, 4-3-3 dynamic-orientated style... but nope, it's not working.
Shit football, idiotic signings that were highly questioned by armchair fans on the internet from day 1, and shit substitutions more often than not.
You have to be really really naive to think he can turn this around.
Simply has to go.
I couldn't give two shits if he does a lot better at another club later on.
Not necessarily results-wise, as Ole had that crazy run of wins,
but football-wise, and structure-wise, we finally looked like a team that can play decently against most top sides.
The Caf was full of compliments and rightly so. The second half of the season was shite, of course.
mixed feelings about his first season, couldn't really conclude anything.
This season, we are Moyes-bad. It's harder for some people to call for his head because we FINALLY appointed a manager who is of that new, progressive, 4-3-3 dynamic-orientated style... but nope, it's not working.
Shit football, idiotic signings that were highly questioned by armchair fans on the internet from day 1, and shit substitutions more often than not.
You have to be really really naive to think he can turn this around.
Simply has to go.
I couldn't give two shits if he does a lot better at another club later on.
I said in November when we had the delusional shouts of "only x points off the top" that the run of games to the new year would be a disaster. He didn't disappoint.
One with him is that he is a fecking coward, now that he has got some stick for the Mainoo sub he will never take him off again and will run him into the ground like he did Rashford, Shaw and Lisandro Martinez last term. The McTominay sub was cynical in that he knew he won't improve on Mainoo but he just wanted to knick a goal and play on the break. OUT
The problem with ETH is that when someone looks intelligent like him with a bald head and a turtleneck and sounds intelligent, we just assume they are. The "Halo effect" is the bias I think. We also assume they're competent.
I agree about I've seen no attacking patterns besides the obvious. The two goals we conceded today were awful. Just awful. When I play 5 a side, I'm always watchful for those type of goals.
I saw Jaap Stam say in an interview that Antony wasn't even that great in Holland and he was on the strongest team in a weak league. Those are his words.
We could've signed almost anyone for 90m but we signed a brain-dead, one footed, no paced piece of shit.
It's gotten to the point where last season looks like the fluke; top managers factually do not lose this many games - and even worse - in this fashion, in a campaign, let alone by the mid-point in one.
He has shown no capacity to adapt, revert, adjust or do anything that sets us on a positive course for longer than the odd half or game of football where the opposition are either wide open or playing a suicidally high line. He looks bereft of tactical ideas and planning and has been outcoached so many times now that it's no longer front page news over something buried on page 35 under a story about a granny shoplifting from her local supermarket.
He's got so many things wrong now, he could have been sacked multiple times, independently of one another. None of this is damning anymore; he's beyond a dead man walking. He has given the new owners nothing to hang their hat on and give him the benefit of the doubt; for every excuse about injuries or things not been perfect, you take a pause and look at the clubs beating us, their players, their resources and the excuse compounds and makes what ten Hag's doing even worse, which is not the intent of it being brought up.
This last game, a player he deemed not good enough and sold on made a player he made a marquee star for us look like he was a plucky underdog from the Championship getting to see a PL player up close and personal. You think these things with a grimace considering the damage it is doing to us, and will continue to do when trying to offload purchases such as those.
I thought we were getting some switched on professor with the enthusiasm of Robin Williams character in Goodwill Hunting - a man with enthusiasm and understanding of the task at hand and an awareness of what is needed to get the best out of his students, be they genial or relatively simple, but as this season unfurls, there is legitimacy in questioning which side of the coin is the false representation given we've been varying levels of poor for close to a full year now with this season's interjection acting as a divider that helps scrub the fact we'd been struggling to perform well for quite a few months prior to July and August's appalling preseason and transfer window.
Wanted this guy here the most of any that we've appointed, but have accepted it was a bad call. He doesn't show growth or that he has it within him to build from the bottom up. In fact, he's showing more tendencies to be halfway through building the Lego base before having a compulsion to put his foot straight through it and have to start again from scratch as he constantly veers towards putting squares where circles should be for no reason whatsoever.
It's no longer disappointment; on to despondency and wonder as to when the misery will be put to bed.
I honestly don't give a fig what he did last season if he can readily regress to what we have been seeing since the season started. Currently playing with him is like playing with 10 men. He conned us for a new deal big time.
The mantra we have heard and adhered to since Moyes. Others things must chage first before we waste time and money pulling that pointless lever yet gain.
If anyone think Martinez and Casemiro injuries are excuse for being the 3rd worst attacking team in the league, they're fooling themselves.
Or maybe it's Hojlund? Nah, our first choice no9 scored one goal this season.
Mount? Didn't look like he knew what he was supposed do do in eth new "system" (and McTominay was picked ahead of him anyway).
Maybe the whole ETH strategy relied on 18yo midfielder becoming FDJ this season?
Anyway, the manager lost the plot and has all the wrong ideas. He's just lucky we're in the middle of takeover process as nobody at the top is looking at football stuff at the moment.
He mastermind our worst ever signing Antony and throw 80M down the bin. That was not his biggest crime. His biggest crime is still play him week in week out.
Don't let me get started with Onana, Mount, Hojlund and his other signings.
Don't let me get started with Onana, Mount, Hojlund and his other signings.
Hundreds of millions United fans could tell that we're struggling in attack last season. Surely he could see that, too.
Put all the eggs on Hojlund as main striker really feck him up. Inexperience, not that good, and a sicknote also. Especially with another sicknote Martial and moody Rashford as his alternatives.
Put all the eggs on Hojlund as main striker really feck him up. Inexperience, not that good, and a sicknote also. Especially with another sicknote Martial and moody Rashford as his alternatives.
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No doubt the worst manager post-SAF. The worst Manchester United team I have ever seen. There is absolutely nothing about this team whatsoever. Sitting 7th with a -5 GD halfway through the season. Finished dead last in the Champions League group. Negative records that are many decades old get broken week after week.
Only at Manchester United you can do all of this and still remain manager. Actually, not even be in danger of getting it. Truly pathetic club. We are finished and it's about time we fully accept this. Bottom half of the table is where we belong.
Only at Manchester United you can do all of this and still remain manager. Actually, not even be in danger of getting it. Truly pathetic club. We are finished and it's about time we fully accept this. Bottom half of the table is where we belong.
A few things.
I think that years of awful football and results have lead to the point where many of us perhaps don't appreciate how awful the football is right now. Thats what happens after years of this crap.
I, like many, really wanted to like EtH. He seems to have everything to be a top manager and his Ajax side were great. I think the United job, as awful as it is, has been too much for him. He has never worked with huge transfer kitties that are seemingly largely at his disposal. Hes spent very poorly.
He has done a lot of things right IMO. Unfortunately he is a football manager of Manchester United and he needs to be getting results and he needs to be doing it in style. He is doing neither at the moment.
I'm still not sure if he has lost the dressing room or if its just going completely wrong for a myriad of reasons.
Injuries this season have been awful. A completely missing first XI defence for part of the season would cause problems for any team. We saw that a few injuries to Liverpools defence last season caused them huge issues but the difference is that they could still do something elsewhere on the pitch. We are abject all over.
Something has to give and I think it has to be the manager. No idea who would come in and sort this out right now though. I have to hope that Ratcliffe will already have some plans in mind and is already starting to make the moves in placing the right people in the right places at the club to sort this out over the coming years. I don't see EtH being here to see it though.
I think that years of awful football and results have lead to the point where many of us perhaps don't appreciate how awful the football is right now. Thats what happens after years of this crap.
I, like many, really wanted to like EtH. He seems to have everything to be a top manager and his Ajax side were great. I think the United job, as awful as it is, has been too much for him. He has never worked with huge transfer kitties that are seemingly largely at his disposal. Hes spent very poorly.
He has done a lot of things right IMO. Unfortunately he is a football manager of Manchester United and he needs to be getting results and he needs to be doing it in style. He is doing neither at the moment.
I'm still not sure if he has lost the dressing room or if its just going completely wrong for a myriad of reasons.
Injuries this season have been awful. A completely missing first XI defence for part of the season would cause problems for any team. We saw that a few injuries to Liverpools defence last season caused them huge issues but the difference is that they could still do something elsewhere on the pitch. We are abject all over.
Something has to give and I think it has to be the manager. No idea who would come in and sort this out right now though. I have to hope that Ratcliffe will already have some plans in mind and is already starting to make the moves in placing the right people in the right places at the club to sort this out over the coming years. I don't see EtH being here to see it though.
ETH is going it’s a matter of time. A shame, I really wanted go to succeed. I fear there’s no one decent to come in and we’ll get Potter. I’m not sure how good Potter is or isn’t after seeing the struggles of Potch but I don’t think he has the personality, the players need a rocket up them.
We play ourselves into dead ends in the channels, leave the striker compleatly isolated and don't get them involved we play triangles to nowhere,push high up the pitch with one midfielder sitting, then get countered on and concede to the opposition midfield runners. Rinse and repeat it's the ETH way.
We are pretty good in the press though, but it leads to absolutely nothing for us because we then dally on the ball and let the opposition re-organise while one of wingers runs to the byline just to pass it back to the full back. We press to control possession then hope our possesion will just magically result in chances.
It's a system/tactics/coaching issue. Not players or injuries or anything else. It's ETH.
We are pretty good in the press though, but it leads to absolutely nothing for us because we then dally on the ball and let the opposition re-organise while one of wingers runs to the byline just to pass it back to the full back. We press to control possession then hope our possesion will just magically result in chances.
It's a system/tactics/coaching issue. Not players or injuries or anything else. It's ETH.
I don't think so. We lost 7-0 to Liverpool on March 5th. Only 3 times in history we lost 7-0, the last time was in 1931. Biggest loss in 90 years for Man Utd! ETH should have been sacked right then.
Actually, last year we were worse than most people remember today. But we won a cup and this made fans so happy that their memories are not very objective. We were mediocre to bad most of the time.
He'll be fine for the Wigan and Spurs matches, the real test will now February when we have alot of games, and he should have Casemiro, Martinez, Maguire, and Mount back, plus Ineos will hopefully be in full control by then.
It's quite possible we could be real run together during that month, and suddenly things will look a lot different for him, and personally I really hope it does play out like that.
It's quite possible we could be real run together during that month, and suddenly things will look a lot different for him, and personally I really hope it does play out like that.
Does he coach the defenders, attackers or midfielders? Or is his tactic entirely having a left footed and right footed centre back?
Martinez might improve our defense, but Casemiro was fecked as a single DM before his injury and will be again.
Our problems are mainly tactics and therefore the manager.
Rangnick was a terrible coach but he was so right we needed open heart surgery, probably the only one who was so honest the last 10 years. Ten Hag has put us back multiple years with his actions, decisions and buys.
Ineos should have no association with Ten Hag what so ever and sack him as soon as possible to make a total new break for them. The longer they keep Ten Hag the more associated they get with him and the more it will heart them as well. They should start totally over from scratch now. Now is the moment. If they keep him and he wins a few games he will stay some extra weeks and months.
The arrogant answer from Ten Hag that he had no time to speak with Ineos yet and they are welcome to come to him later because he wants to work with them. For real? Who’s the boss now?
Ineos should have no association with Ten Hag what so ever and sack him as soon as possible to make a total new break for them. The longer they keep Ten Hag the more associated they get with him and the more it will heart them as well. They should start totally over from scratch now. Now is the moment. If they keep him and he wins a few games he will stay some extra weeks and months.
The arrogant answer from Ten Hag that he had no time to speak with Ineos yet and they are welcome to come to him later because he wants to work with them. For real? Who’s the boss now?