Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

Sarni · Feb 27, 2024

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
It's the lamest argument ever made! He competed with Europe bests consistently in the Europa and UCL managing a Europeam traditional giant. To pretend his success was isolated to Eredivisie let alone comparable to one seasom wonder at Porto, no European level impact Villasboas, simply betrays the agenda behind anyone who thinks that way.

He never really competed in Europa and had one great season in 2019, and one good group stage in Europe (which culminated in a very disappointing last 16 exit vs Benfica). Aside from 2018-19 he never won a knockout stage against any decent team as far as I remember, getting knocked out by a weak Roma team, Getafe and Benfica.

Villas Boas on the other hand actually won an European trophy so not sure how you can have him down as ‘no European impact’.

There are many managers who won EL or got far in CL and never amounted to anything serious at the top level.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · Feb 27, 2024

hobbers said:
I'm sure there will have a few simple Palace fans who will have said the exact same about De Boer.

.....

There aren't any.

Big Ben Foster · Feb 27, 2024

Sarni said:
I think people mostly don’t care about what he did in the league with Ajax as it’s a completely different job. Villas Boas was amazing with Porto but terrible with Chelsea, the leap from Eredivisie to managing United is huge. It’s also very rare, almost unprecedented for managers to be allowed one terrible season at a top club.

Ahhh AVB, I remember him. What he did with Porto was historic. When Chelsea got him I was genuinely concerned he was going to make them a juggernaut again.

Turns out being a big fish in a small pond doesn't necessarily translate to PL success (as we also learned with De Boer, a former Caf favorite).

DWelbz19 · Feb 27, 2024

GMoore23 said:
Premier League teams to have faced 20+ shots (Selected)
Club Manager Games Faced 20+Shots
Manchester United Erik ten Hag 64 12
Arsenal Mikel Arteta 161 7
Manchester City Pep Guardiola 292 4
Liverpool Jurgen Klopp 322 2

One of the most overrated managers of all time.

Have you seen the win ratios of these managers, though?

hobbers · Feb 27, 2024

Also if you bother to actually look into ETH's European record, he had just one amazing season.

We hired him pretty much solely on the back of that one run. Because every other year in Europe they achieved zero above standard Ajax expectations, out in group stages. Quarter finals of Europa league.

He's managed at "the top level" for those 6 games in the CL knockouts. That's it.

tjb · Feb 27, 2024

Big Ben Foster said:
Ahhh AVB, I remember him. What he did with Porto was historic. When Chelsea got him I was genuinely concerned he was going to make them a juggernaut again.

Turns out being a big fish in a small pond doesn't necessarily translate to PL success (as we also learned with De Boer, a former Caf favorite).

I'd actually err on the side of not getting big fishes in small ponds, especially in 2024, as there is such a disparity in league quality. They should prove themselves in England, Spain, Germany or Italy before coming here.

BorisManUtd · Feb 27, 2024

GMoore23 said:
Premier League teams to have faced 20+ shots (Selected)
Club Manager Games Faced 20+Shots
Manchester United Erik ten Hag 64 12
Arsenal Mikel Arteta 161 7
Manchester City Pep Guardiola 292 4
Liverpool Jurgen Klopp 322 2

One of the most overrated managers of all time.

How many of those 12 games are from this season?

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · Feb 27, 2024

Rojofiam said:
Zidane links aren't very encouraging IMO...

Because they are a pipe dream

Sarni · Feb 27, 2024

hobbers said:
Also if you bother to actually look into ETH's European record, he had just one amazing season.

We hired him pretty much solely on the back of that one run. Because every other year in Europe they achieved zero above standard Ajax expectations, out in group stages. Quarter finals of Europa league.

He's managed at "the top level" for those 6 games in the CL knockouts. That's it.

Getting 18 points in a group was impressive in 2021-22 even if it was a relatively weak group. Being knocked out by Benfica was disappointing.

2019-20 and 2020-21 were both simply disappointing. Knocked out in CL groups by teams they could have beaten, and then knocked out in EL by not so strong teams as well.

They were in EL final just before he joined so I am also not buying the argument of them being a minnow.

VP89 · Feb 27, 2024

Big Ben Foster said:
Ahhh AVB, I remember him. What he did with Porto was historic. When Chelsea got him I was genuinely concerned he was going to make them a juggernaut again.

Turns out being a big fish in a small pond doesn't necessarily translate to PL success (as we also learned with De Boer, a former Caf favorite).

Are there also not examples such as Arteta who were broadly dogshite for two seasons before things clicked with the right players?

DWelbz19 · Feb 27, 2024

Sarni said:
I think people mostly don’t care about what he did in the league with Ajax as it’s a completely different job. Villas Boas was amazing with Porto but terrible with Chelsea, the leap from Eredivisie to managing United is huge. It’s also very rare, almost unprecedented for managers to be allowed one terrible season at a top club.

It’s incredible you have to even say this. What should have been a second season where we progress from the initial work he did in year one is a freefall where I genuinely can’t even count more than a handful of genuinely good performances this season.

This isn’t even a blip, it’s a straight nosedive of a season. We finished dead last in a CL group that was two Europa quality sides (at best) + the weakest Bayern side I’ve seen in years; battered out of the only cup we had a significant shot of winning; and now spend every Premier League weekend conceding record amounts of shots per game all without any goals in response. We are 26 matches into the Premier League season and our goal difference is ZERO. It’s actually absurd to me that people still defend this charlatan.

DWelbz19 · Feb 27, 2024

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
For it's common knowledge a Postecoglu isn't being judge that way by those using him as a stick to beat up on ETH, for example....

Postecoglu doesn’t manage this club. The standards of a manager doing well at Tottenham Hotspur and a manager doing the minimum to retain his position at Manchester United are (or absolutely should) be eons apart.

VP89 · Feb 27, 2024

DWelbz19 said:
Postecoglu doesn’t manage this club. The standards of a manager doing well at Tottenham Hotspur and a manager doing the minimum to retain his position at Manchester United are (or absolutely should) be eons apart.

If that's the case why are there countless braindead posts citing the good work he's doing at Spurs and comparing that impact to Ten Hag in a much harder job?

DWelbz19 · Feb 27, 2024

VP89 said:
If that's the case why are there countless braindead posts citing the good work he's doing at Spurs and comparing that impact to Ten Hag in a much harder job?

I don’t know. I don’t really care. All I know is ten Hag is not meeting the necessary standards required.

hobbers · Feb 27, 2024

Sarni said:
Getting 18 points in a group was impressive in 2021-22 even if it was a relatively weak group. Being knocked out by Benfica was disappointing.

2019-20 and 2020-21 were both simply disappointing. Knocked out in CL groups by teams they could have beaten, and then knocked out in EL by not so strong teams as well.

They were in EL final just before he joined so I am also not buying the argument of them being a minnow.

Yeah, very true.

All hindsight now, because he was definitely the best option we could get at the time, even if it was just based on the football Ajax played in that one CL run. But not having any rewriting of his record as "elevating them in Europe" or "managing at the top". His career at Ajax was par for an Ajax manager in a tier 3 league.

VP89 · Feb 27, 2024

DWelbz19 said:
I don’t know. I don’t really care. All I know is ten Hag is not meeting the necessary standards required.

I agree with underperformance. What I disagree with is whether he's one of THE problems in a host of problems that were always at the club before he came.

Sarni · Feb 27, 2024

hobbers said:
Yeah, very true.

All hindsight now, because he was definitely the best option we could get at the time, even if it was just based on the football Ajax played in that one CL run. But not having any rewriting of his record as "elevating them in Europe" or "managing at the top". His career at Ajax was par for an Ajax manager in a tier 3 league.

He was and I was very much in favor of his appointment.

He however did not come here with reputation that screamed ‘world class, we must give him all the time in the world’. Just good enough to be given a run.

parmenio · Feb 27, 2024

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
In the last 5 years of managing at the top ETH has hsd just ONE disaster year. Under a structureless regime. That is why a number of people are not as eager to ditch him as those who thinking him garbage.

Some people are going to back ETH no matter what. Excuse after excuse for him. His football is dire. He’s tactically inept. Squad building is awful. Regressed badly after first season yet let’s try again next season and hope for the best. You could maybe see a reason for keeping next season if he was some king of genius tactics wise but hes absolutely not. Ineos are looking a recruiting world class at all levels ETH is not and never will be world class no matter what the excuses are. Do we really deserve another season of this dire football. Someone mentioned Spurs we’ll look at the mess they were in post Conte. Then they loose their Hero. Compare them to us it’s doom and gloom at one club and it ain’t Spurs sadly.

lysglimt · Feb 27, 2024

The injuries can ironically save ETH - he can argue that he never had a chance because of them.

Rojofiam · Feb 27, 2024

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Because they are a pipe dream

More so that he isn't a good choice at the moment IMO

And it would be one that lacks vision

Big Ben Foster · Feb 27, 2024

tjb said:
I'd actually err on the side of not getting big fishes in small ponds, especially in 2024, as there is such a disparity in league quality. They should prove themselves in England, Spain, Germany or Italy before coming here.

At this point I'd probably have to agree. Unfortunately European football in 2024 is significantly more lopsided than it was even 10 years ago, let alone in the beginning of the century when teams like Porto could still win the CL.

BarstoolProphet · Feb 27, 2024

pocco said:
There were even reports that people at United were unhappy about the involvement of ETHs agent in the transfer business. I think it's peculiar the way it unfolded with players signing with SEG and then signing for United, when it looked like deals were already lined up and wages not expected to be an issue.

Why do you think Ole was lining his agents pocket but not ETH and SEG? I'd say its likely they are/ were both doing the same thing. Not that I'm particularly bothered, it's the least of my worries when it comes to ETH.

But who led those negotiations and let him assume this much control? Do you think Sir Alex was lining his pockets when the club used Mendes on especially Nani and Anderson - both (atleast one of them) who I think had to change agency to Gestifute right before the move.

The reason I am mentioning Ole is there's pretty strong evidence/suggestions that he was either directly but most likely indirectly lining his and his buddies' pockets during his Reserves, Molde and especially Cardiff days.

LordSpud · Feb 27, 2024

Injuries have likely finished his United career. Can't see a top 4 finish now. Seems that Arsenal doc we took has sabotaged us :nervous:

BarstoolProphet · Feb 27, 2024

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
In the last 5 years of managing at the top ETH has hsd just ONE disaster year. Under a structureless regime. That is why a number of people are not as eager to ditch him as those who thinking him garbage.

His first season at United was also highly questionable (dreadful start, unthinkable thrashings, record vs top teams, lethargic play after the cup win etc.), but also had several positives so the major redflags were mostly ignored.

r0663664 · Feb 27, 2024

I read that ETH has responded to Carra comments of Sky. Erik is still trying to defend himself after so many poor performances. How many games have we lost this season? It isn't that we went toe to toe with the eventual champion, we lost to Fulham who has one of worst away record in EPL. Just look at the stats, who had a better game. If Fulham was clinical, it would be 4 or 5 goals. This manager has very thick skin, I am almost sure Ineos will replace him. They are probably having a discussion with a few candidates before announcing it once 5th place is out of reach.

Oranges038 · Feb 27, 2024

Zed 101 said:
How's that working out?

Pure craziness, yes you work toward your ideal style but that might take several seasons, in the meantime blindly sticking to a system which is failing is abject stupidity or blind obstinance, unless you are Man City each team has to chop and change in order to be most effective against any given opposition.

The football formations, selections, substitutions and tactics employed by ETH this season are suicidal, we are flattered by our current points total, he is extremely flattered to still be in a job!

Achievements by ETH's utd

Galatasaray beat utd, first time in 117 years that they have won on English soil, not having scored an CL away goal since 2015 until netting 3 at OT

first time losing the opening 2 CL group games

first time conceding 7 goals in the opening 2 CL group games

first time conceding 3+ goals in back-to-back CL games

first time losing 4 of the opening 7 games in PL history

fewest points from the opening 7 games since 1989

first time in 28 years conceding 4 goals in a CL group game

had not conceded 3+ goals in 3 consecutive games since 1978

first time losing the opening two away games since 1973-74

had not conceded more than one goal in 4 consecutive league games since 1979

had never before conceded 2 goals in the opening 4 minutes of a PL game at Old Trafford

had never before conceded 23 shots in one game at Old Trafford in PL history

first time losing consecutive home games by three goals or more since October 1962

first time the losing eight or more of their first 15 games in a season since 1962-63

first time losing five of its first 10 home games since 1930-31

Great manager! but yeah stick to the format it will come good if we give him long enough, by which time we will be in the beezer homes league!

Not a fecking clue what any of that has to do with what I posted. Nothing I said was about ETH or his achievements. Bringing in a manager or coach who has his own quite rigid style of playing and expecting him to abandon it to adapt to the players you have is stupid.

If you're set on heading towards a certain style of play or maybe you want players who can adapt to multiple different styles. Then you put the structure in place to make that happen, that has to go right throughout thge club, from first team coaches to scouts to u16s. Every player has to be brought based on those ideals. You stick to your principles of what you want from them on the pitch and you let that weed out the current players who aren't suited to it.

So if it takes 2 to 3 years from now, then that's what it takes. Whether ETH is going to see it through or not, that's for the club to decide.
Whatever direction Jim Ratcliffe and the guys he bring in decide to take, you can expect it to take at least that amount of time to start reaping the rewards. Doesn't matter who the manager is, I don't expect Utd to seriously compete for the league until 2027.

tomaldinho1 · Feb 27, 2024

r0663664 said:
I read that ETH has responded to Carra comments of Sky. Erik is still trying to defend himself after so many poor performances. How many games have we lost this season? It isn't that we went toe to toe with the eventual champion, we lost to Fulham who has one of worst away record in EPL. Just look at the stats, who had a better game. If Fulham was clinical, it would be 4 or 5 goals. This manager has very thick skin, I am almost sure Ineos will replace him. They are probably having a discussion with a few candidates before announcing it once 5th place is out of reach.

I’m more annoyed he even responded to it.

clarkydaz · Feb 27, 2024

Dont see Zidane coming with Pep across the street wiping the floor with everyone, and we cant have him upsetting the likes of Rashford

Zed 101 · Feb 27, 2024

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
In the last 5 years of managing at the top ETH has hsd just ONE disaster year. Under a structureless regime. That is why a number of people are not as eager to ditch him as those who thinking him garbage.

The regime is not forcing him to play a 4-1-5 formation leaving the defence exposed every match, you can dress it up or down however you want, but tactics, formations and substitutions have had nothing to do with the ownership or management of the club, looking for blame elsewhere when the basics are ludicrously wrong is hardly a substantive argument for keeping a manager.

Ludens the Red · Feb 27, 2024

Can see he’s a man heading for his final weeks here as manager. Some of his comments these last few days, deary me, read the room.

roseguy64 · Feb 27, 2024

tomaldinho1 said:
If this is true - which is a big ‘if’ - they should suss out which players aren’t fully committed and bin them asap. This will be manager number 4 it’s happened to.

Yeah and which happens in basically every club.

roseguy64 · Feb 27, 2024

Valencia Shin Crosses said:
It just seems like Zidane himself doesn’t want to deal with the job. He got tired even after winning 3 UCL’s on the trot, in not sure he wants to come to England to test himself at another huge challenge of a club.

Zidane is waiting for the France job. He's not joining any other team unless Deschamps stays on after the Euros.

roseguy64 · Feb 28, 2024

VP89 said:
Are there also not examples such as Arteta who were broadly dogshite for two seasons before things clicked with the right players?

Arteta is not a good comparison. Those Arsenal teams were not good. And they intentionally were doing a rebuild.

Who's Kissing Cameras? · Feb 28, 2024

Skills said:
ETH seems like the type of guy who'd clear out the stationary cupboard on his way out. The amount of money he's managed to spin out of the clubs to his sons agency must have set them up for life.

I think he’s tactically average and I want him gone but this isn’t true. Ten Hags family were millionaires before he was a footballer.

Valencia Shin Crosses · Feb 28, 2024

1988 said:
Exactly what he did. He did a very good job managing a very good squad. When it was time for a rebuild he quit.

I mean it's not "exactly what he did" and he even came back post rebuild to win La Liga with Vini and co. He's extremely underrated tactically and is far more flexible than our own manager in that right. People act like Madrid has been this beacon of easy success for managers this century when it was largely considered a graveyard before Ancellotti and Zidane.

MyBloodIsRed · Feb 28, 2024

I’m not necessarily pro ETH or anti ETH. I hate we keep changing in general…

thought this was interesting!

https://x.com/petesunitedpov/status/1762430553385517182?s=46&t=bwTOEpJFXTXIDHqvV780bA

Valencia Shin Crosses · Feb 28, 2024

roseguy64 said:
Zidane is waiting for the France job. He's not joining any other team unless Deschamps stays on after the Euros.

My feelings as well

Judas · Feb 28, 2024

Zidane isn't the right appointment with how our squad currently is. Back when we had Pogba, Ronaldo, Cavani etc.? Aye maybe.

Asger · Feb 28, 2024

roseguy64 said:
Zidane is waiting for the France job. He's not joining any other team unless Deschamps stays on after the Euros.

I believe it will be France or Juve.

croadyman · Feb 28, 2024

Lay said:
More and more reports about manager being changed next season. ETH is on his way out, hopefully

Tend to think candidates who haven't been mentioned are the ones to maybe keep an eye on IF the club decide to make a change this summer

Premier League teams to have faced 20+ shots (Selected)
Club	Manager	Games	Faced 20+Shots
Manchester United	Erik ten Hag	64	12
Arsenal	Mikel Arteta	161	7
Manchester City	Pep Guardiola	292	4
Liverpool	Jurgen Klopp	322	2

Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

Would you allow ETH to manage the cup final before parting ways?

Yes

No, get an interim now

nice guy, unassuming, objective United fan.

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