Westminster Politics

Smores

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Not buying into this idea that somehow the Tories losing individual seats by a bigger margin forever kills their movement.

They've destroyed themselves already but even then they'll be back. They've got a big enough base and powerful media on hand. Labour winning less seats but Lib Dems being the official opposition would be a bigger blow to the Tories than them being a 60 seat opposition.
 

Bert_

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Pexbo said:
You’ve got to hand it to the cat man he chewed Coates up and spat him out like a fur ball.
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Whether you agree with his him or not, he's always been a great orator.

His appearence in the US Senate hearings back in the day was proof to me that the quality of British politicians across the political spectrum was substantialy better than their American counterparts. How times have changed.

 

4bars

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Bert_ said:
Whether you agree with his him or not, he's always been a great orator.

His appearence in the US Senate hearings back in the day was proof to me that the quality of British politicians across the political spectrum was substantialy better than their American counterparts. How times have changed.

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Hearing brittish politicians from 70-80-early 90s, agreeing or disagreeing with them you can feel the statemanship, that they were well prepared. So americans, and so spanish and catalans. You could swear they speaking another language. Everything has changed everywhere at least with the politicians that I had been hearing from different countries/regions. The mediocrity is rampant. It seems that they dont care. That the platform that they run for is because they took that decision but they could defend the opposite without any problem. They are there for the money and the grift.

The previous decades politicians maybe they were for the money, but I could feel also that they believe what they were saying and they knew what they were talking about. Now they seem marionettes from other powers. They seem that is the worst that a country can offer and the best decide to go on private endeavours and they lobby to influence to those politicans

Politics are dead
 

Ekkie Thump

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Giggsyking said:
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In truth they should have tweeted out the full report. In the end the reporter takes on the role of a sort of antagonistic narrator and successfully winds up the audience (well two of the women) to make his point (from 07.24).

 
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the_cliff

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Rishi out here doing Gods work protecting democracy. Great success.

Just so he gets the worst Conservative results in a general election in history. Great success.
 

Jippy

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Ekkie Thump said:
In truth they should have tweeted out the full report. In the end the reporter takes on the role of a sort of antagonistic narrator and successfully winds up the audience (well two of the women) to make his point (from 07.24).

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What a prick with his 'febrile atmosphere' and 'raw emotion' when there's about a dozen people around, half of whom are ignoring him. You'd think he was commentating on the Nuremberg Rally.
 

Ekkie Thump

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Jippy said:
What a prick with his 'febrile atmosphere' and 'raw emotion' when there's about a dozen people around, half of whom are ignoring him. You'd think he was commentating on the Nuremberg Rally.
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It's astoundingly biased reporting. He's basically turned himself into an activist for Sunak
 

F-Red

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Buster15

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Now the government wants to control what we can and can not protest about.
They are completely out of touch with really.
 

decorativeed

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Badunk said:
The PREVENT strategy is fundamentally flawed, as it doesn't address the leading cause of radicalisation in the Muslim community: namely, the actions of the UK towards Muslim countries.

So he's going to double its funding. Great stuff.
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Precisely. Amazing so many fail to see this. But apparently opposing British foreign policy and expecting our government to condemn the actions of all governments who bomb their neighbours into oblivion is extremism now.
 

Maticmaker

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Adisa said:
Too right but none of the shat Sunak said yesterday holds water.
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Ah... but it does, patriotism may be the last refuge of a scoundrel but Sunak is signalling this will be his platform to fight Labour at the next GE. It won't stop Labour winning but might stop Starmer getting the size of majority he needs to move the dial significantly.
Labour will no doubt lose quite a lot of Muslim votes in some key seats and if Sunak can make some dis-enfranchised Tory voters think twice, appeal to their patriotism, 'stiff upper lip' extra, then he might do just enough to 'hobble' Starmer.
Sunak would have been better off ignoring the GG victory, keeping a dignified silence and let Labour stew in its own juices. After all even on a good day the Tories were never going to get anywhere near, let alone win in Rochdale.
 
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Peter van der Gea

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Those people who would have been traditional Labour supporters, but are unable to support Starmer, are any of you Labour Party members?

Surely the best way to protest would be by doing it from inside the party as opposed to protesting by not voting at all and allowing the chance of a truly racist party to remain in power?

If you can make a feasible vote for a different party, go for it, if you have to hold your nose and vote for Labour, do that, but please, please, please vote against the Tories somehow.
 

Badunk

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Peter van der Gea said:
Those people who would have been traditional Labour supporters, but are unable to support Starmer, are any of you Labour Party members?

Surely the best way to protest would be by doing it from inside the party as opposed to protesting by not voting at all and allowing the chance of a truly racist party to remain in power?

If you can make a feasible vote for a different party, go for it, if you have to hold your nose and vote for Labour, do that, but please, please, please vote against the Tories somehow.
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Starmer silences dissent from the party line. I think he's expelled more members than the previous few leaders put together.
 

TwoSheds

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Peter van der Gea said:
Those people who would have been traditional Labour supporters, but are unable to support Starmer, are any of you Labour Party members?

Surely the best way to protest would be by doing it from inside the party as opposed to protesting by not voting at all and allowing the chance of a truly racist party to remain in power?

If you can make a feasible vote for a different party, go for it, if you have to hold your nose and vote for Labour, do that, but please, please, please vote against the Tories somehow.
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Seems a fair take to me! Sometimes in a democracy you are powerless but you are never powerless to try.
 

Maticmaker

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Badunk said:
Starmer silences dissent from the party line. I think he's expelled more members than the previous few leaders put together.
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This is what gives him credibility in certain parts of both the Tory dis-enfranchised and the so called silent majority (supposedly the irregular/GE only, voters). One group feels that they may be able to trust him (one term only mind you) and the other think he's 'a get things done' kinda leader.
 

decorativeed

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Peter van der Gea said:
Those people who would have been traditional Labour supporters, but are unable to support Starmer, are any of you Labour Party members?

Surely the best way to protest would be by doing it from inside the party as opposed to protesting by not voting at all and allowing the chance of a truly racist party to remain in power?

If you can make a feasible vote for a different party, go for it, if you have to hold your nose and vote for Labour, do that, but please, please, please vote against the Tories somehow.
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Some of us are probably Labour Party members who voted for Starmer as leader due to the policies he advocated in his leadership campaign, who have subsequently watched him discard each and every one of them. When that can happen, and the party ejects outspoken socialists from it's membership, you lose faith that you can change it from the inside.
 

Peter van der Gea

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decorativeed said:
Some of us are probably Labour Party members who voted for Starmer as leader due to the policies he advocated in his leadership campaign, who have subsequently watched him discard each and every one of them. When that can happen, and the party ejects outspoken socialists from it's membership, you lose faith that you can change it from the inside.
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I get that, but surely you're less likely to change Labour from the outside
 

Bert_

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decorativeed said:
Some of us are probably Labour Party members who voted for Starmer as leader due to the policies he advocated in his leadership campaign, who have subsequently watched him discard each and every one of them. When that can happen, and the party ejects outspoken socialists from it's membership, you lose faith that you can change it from the inside.
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Yep. I didn't vote for Starmer in the leadership election because I suspected he was wolf in sheep's clothing but I know plenty of people that took him for his word and regret it now.
 

Peter van der Gea

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decorativeed said:
I'm not sure. Look how UKIP changed the Tories from the outside. Their influence, and the Tories fear of losing a few seats to them, is a huge part of where we are today.
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I don't think the left are as able to coalesce on a single theme like the right have with racism, the left is about inclusion for all, so having influence in a broad church like Labour is the pretty much the only option
 

Superden

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Bert_ said:
Yep. I didn't vote for Starmer in the leadership election because I suspected he was wolf in sheep's clothing but I know plenty of people that took him for his word and regret it now.
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Hes changed Labour to make it more appealing to those on the right and the daily mail crowd. which worked upto a point, but now the overton window shifted right and hes following, haemorrhaging support from the left. the daily mail will still give him a kicking (look at the recent attempted lynching of angela rayner) and unlike the blair years they wont support him in a GE. That 20 point lead could drop and in a FPTP system he may miss out on certain seats beacuse of single issue candidates, with the state of the country, , just seems theres been a missed opportunity for a decent left wing / centre left offering. - Corbyn running on a proper left wing agenda did get 40% of the vote in the 2017 GE...A John Smith type candidate would walk the election..
 

Ady87

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Before he got booted off air I used to enjoy flicking over and listening to Galloway’s show on Talk Radio I think it was. I didn’t know anything about him at the time and in that context he used to make a few good points. He probably held back a bit for national radio, until he didn’t.
 

GuybrushThreepwood

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Galloway is being described as a left-wing Farage, left-wing firebrand etc. However is he actually left wing these days?

I seem to recall that he actually said a few years ago that he no longer considered himself to be left-wing (the key part there being ‘no longer’). He is definitely socially conservative as I think he has also said himself.

Now I do think there has been a growing number of people that both support left-wing domestic policies and are socially conservative, so agreeing with Corbyn when it comes to a wealth tax and re-(nationalising) public utilities and the railways, while also agreeing with Farage when it comes to immigration and culture wars etc.

But do we even know what domestic policies regarding taxes, education, the NHS, utilities, transport etc. Galloway actually supports these days (a genuine question as I’m not willing to watch his YouTube channel). His foreign policy stances alone do not necessarily mean that he is left-wing, and for example (clearly for monetary reasons) he didn’t speak up when Assad who he supported attacked Palestinians in Yarmouk and other refugee camps.
 

Pexbo

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The difference between Kuessenberg interviewing Tories and interviewing anyone else isn’t the difficulty of the questions it’s the amount of time she affords them to answer and the number of interruptions
 

Giggsyking

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Imagine if your mentor (Tony fecking Blair) is actually a war criminal and you yourself support collective punishment of the Palestinians. What type of a human being you consider yourself?
 

11101

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GuybrushThreepwood said:
Galloway is being described as a left-wing Farage, left-wing firebrand etc. However is he actually left wing these days?

I seem to recall that he actually said a few years ago that he no longer considered himself to be left-wing (the key part there being ‘no longer’). He is definitely socially conservative as I think he has also said himself.

Now I do think there has been a growing number of people that both support left-wing domestic policies and are socially conservative, so agreeing with Corbyn when it comes to a wealth tax and re-(nationalising) public utilities and the railways, while also agreeing with Farage when it comes to immigration and culture wars etc.

But do we even know what domestic policies regarding taxes, education, the NHS, utilities, transport etc. Galloway actually supports these days (a genuine question as I’m not willing to watch his YouTube channel). His foreign policy stances alone do not necessarily mean that he is left-wing, and for example (clearly for monetary reasons) he didn’t speak up when Assad who he supported attacked Palestinians in Yarmouk and other refugee camps.
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He is whatever he thinks will get him the most attention. In his current campaign that means sending different messages promising different things to different groups, all to stir up resentment even further. I wouldn't be surprised if his Israeli free zones make a reappearance.

When you've got George Galloway winning and a car dealer coming second you know you've got problems.
 

Maticmaker

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11101 said:
When you've got George Galloway winning and a car dealer coming second you know you've got problems.
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I am not sure the public knows the half of it, the people of Rochdale will start to see GG for the interloper he is, hopefully when it's not too late.
 
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