Westminster Politics

[Eyepopper]

To be fair, Catholic priests molesting kids is a universally understood, widespread stereotype and no one is called Catholicphobe for expressing it.

To be fair, no one suggests its religiously motivated either.

 

[hobbers]

And the Imam turns out to be an anti Semitic misogynist corbynite, so there you go. Words have consequences.

 

[Siorac]

To be fair, no one suggests its religiously motivated either.

Some people do believe the problem is related to celibacy which is a religious discipline. Though as far as I'm aware, the experts disagree. But it is a cultural and institutional issue with the Catholic Church itself.

 

[Eyepopper]

Some people do believe the problem is related to celibacy which is a religious discipline. Though as far as I'm aware, the experts disagree. But it is a cultural and institutional issue with the Catholic Church itself.

Whether it is or isnt a result of celibacy, that wouldn't mean its religiously motivated.

 

[Siorac]

Whether it is or isnt a result of celibacy, that wouldn't mean its religiously motivated.

I guess not, in the sense that they certainly can't derive it from the Bible, the way the harshest critics of Islam claim the Quran and the hadiths teach values that are incompatible with a modern secular society.

I don't know if Islamophobia is really such a big problem or not but then I'm a bit of a religiophobe so certainly not as open-minded as I'd like to be. So maybe I have a tendency of downplaying it simply because I'd rather all religion just went away at last.

 

[Sassy Colin]

These debates are irrelevant. The dogs in the street know Boris will be Prime Minister.

Watch as he then pursues a plan similar to that outlined by Portillo on This Week last Thursday.

What was that then?

 

[Smores]

In a reasonable world Boris and Hunt would now be under considerable pressure over Saudi Arabia dealings with the UN report out. Stewart should call out them out on their actions and their hypocrisy

 

[Kinsella]

What was that then?

That he'll go back to the NI-only backstop. To gain consent for it he may put the issue to the people in a NI-only referendum.

 

[VeevaVee]

Sound people, who do we want? Is there a best of the bad bunch? I've refused to show any interest in it, but I want to know so I can be disappointed in politics for the 500th time.

 

[Smores]

That he'll go back to the NI-only backstop. To gain consent for it he may put the issue to the people in a NI-only referendum.

And when they say jog on? Presumably magic technology will become available

 

[Sassy Colin]

For no good reason apart from populism it is going to be Boris.
And for no good reason apart from populism it is going to be a no deal exit.
Don't think it is going to turn out well.
Yes the majority voted leave but they didn't vote to be worse off and that is exactly what is going to happen.

But that's exactly what they did.

 

[Kinsella]

And when they say jog on? Presumably magic technology will become available

Who will say jog on?

Polling in NI has consistently demonstrated a preference for the NI-only backstop.

 

[parkthebuslads]

You're going to have to elaborate on this. Religiously motivated rape, with said motivation overt enough that the victims are aware of it?

I'm referring to the victim statements and specifically what they reported to have been told by the perpetrators, for example:

They made it clear that because I was a non-Muslim, and not a virgin, and because I didn’t dress “modestly”, that they believed I deserved to be “punished”. They said I had to “obey” or be beaten.

Such sentiment has been revealed by multiple victims, not to mention:

Gang member allegedly branded one schoolgirl with 'M' for Mohammed

 

[FlawlessThaw]

Such sentiment has been revealed by multiple victims, not to mention:

For what it's worth every Muslim male has the name Mohammed in his name more or less. So looks like some self-branding in that one incident.

 

[BobbyManc]

Of an an Islamaphobe? Care to elaborate?

a post that is entirely fair and true, a post that is no way "islamaphobic" but instead is mearly anti rape gangs.

"The sheer number of victims involved elevates this threat far and above that of white pedophiles." This quote is blatantly untrue and demonstrably false. The vast majority of paedophiles in the UK are, unsurprisingly, white. If you want to talk about grooming gangs where the perpetrators are mainly of Muslim faith, then I would not call you Islamophobic. If you're going to make ridiculous statements that they exist at an 'obscene rate' and somehow, bizarrely, outweigh the problem of white paedophiles then I will call you Islamophobic because you are.

 

[Smores]

Who will say jog on?

Polling in NI has consistently demonstrated a preference for the NI-only backstop.

They also voted against Brexit so the idea they'd vote to accept a NI only backstop knowing it'll pass Brexit through seems unlikely.

 

[Kinsella]

They also voted against Brexit so the idea they'd vote to accept a NI only backstop knowing it'll pass Brexit through seems unlikely.

If it came to a referendum, it'd be a vote on the NI-only backstop. Remain wouldn't be on the ballot.

Brexit is going to pass through regardless.

 

[parkthebuslads]

"The sheer number of victims involved elevates this threat far and above that of white pedophiles." This quote is blatantly untrue and demonstrably false. The vast majority of paedophiles in the UK are, unsurprisingly, white. If you want to talk about grooming gangs where the perpetrators are mainly of Muslim faith, then I would not call you Islamophobic. If you're going to make ridiculous statements that they exist at an 'obscene rate' and somehow, bizarrely, outweigh the problem of white paedophiles then I will call you Islamophobic because you are.

Rather than resorting to insults, lets get to the root of the issue shall we?

f you're going to make ridiculous statements that they exist at an 'obscene rate' and somehow, bizarrely, outweigh the problem of white paedophiles then I will call you Islamophobic because you are.

Muslims make up 84% of grooming gang convictions.

A grooming gang is far worst than an individual pedophile as the scale of abuse is so much greater, hence my assertion that the issue "outweighs the problem of white pedophiles".

Given that such gangs have been proven to have operated all over Britain (Huddersfield, Rochdale, Telford, Rotherham, Banbury, Oxford, Halifax, Newcastle, Derby etc) and given that muslims only make up around 5% of the uk, I also believe that my comment that they exist at an "obscene rate" is also entirely fair.

If I am wrong, rather than lazily labeling me "Islamophobic", educate me. I'm entirely open to changing my views on this issue.

 

[Smores]

If it came to a referendum, it'd be a vote on the NI-only backstop. Remain wouldn't be on the ballot.

Brexit is going to pass through regardless.

Not until there's enough MPs to vote for it it won't. A NI vote against the NI only backstop will just solidify opposition to Brexit in westminster.

It would be a defacto leave or remain vote whichever way you look at it.

 

[Kinsella]

Not until there's enough MPs to vote for it it won't. A NI vote against the NI only backstop will just solidify opposition to Brexit in westminster.

Then don't be surprised if the Brexit party becomes the party which attracts most popular support.

The issue is whether enough Labour MPs will endorse the original NI-only backstop option in an effort to finally get Brexit through. In this context, all the indications are that the majority of people in NI support the NI-only backstop.

 

[Shamwow]

Rather than resorting to insults, lets get to the root of the issue shall we?



Muslims make up 84% of grooming gang convictions.

A grooming gang is far worst than an individual pedophile as the scale of abuse is so much greater, hence my assertion that the issue "outweighs the problem of white pedophiles".

Given that such gangs have been proven to have operated all over Britain (Huddersfield, Rochdale, Telford, Rotherham, Banbury, Oxford, Halifax, Newcastle, Derby etc) and given that muslims only make up around 5% of the uk, I also believe that my comment that they exist at an "obscene rate" is also entirely fair.

If I am wrong, rather than lazily labeling me "Islamophobic", educate me. I'm entirely open to changing my views on this issue.

Where are you getting these stats from?

We contacted the CPS who provided us with the information they publish on defendants in child sex abuse cases. 98% of defendants were male in 2015/16, but no information about the ethnicity of the defendants was published. We then submitted a freedom of information request to the CPS asking for information on the ethnicity of defendants prosecuted in child sex abuse cases.

It provided us with data on the number of defendants prosecuted for sex offences in cases flagged as relating to child abuse in 2015/16. It also included the ethnicity of those defendants.

Of the 6,200 or so defendants in these prosecutions, 67% were white, 4% were Asian, 3% were black, 1% were mixed race and 1% were other. For 24% of defendant’s there was no information on their ethnicity. Of all these prosecutions, around three quarters resulted in a conviction.

https://fullfact.org/crime/what-do-...le-involved-sexual-offences-against-children/

 

[BobbyManc]

Rather than resorting to insults, lets get to the root of the issue shall we?



Muslims make up 84% of grooming gang convictions.

A grooming gang is far worst than an individual pedophile as the scale of abuse is so much greater, hence my assertion that the issue "outweighs the problem of white pedophiles".

Given that such gangs have been proven to have operated all over Britain (Huddersfield, Rochdale, Telford, Rotherham, Banbury, Oxford, Halifax, Newcastle, Derby etc) and given that muslims only make up around 5% of the uk, I also believe that my comment that they exist at an "obscene rate" is also entirely fair.

If I am wrong, rather than lazily labeling me "Islamophobic", educate me. I'm entirely open to changing my views on this issue.

Ok, rather than resorting to insults, let's speak about facts. Your figure of 84% comes from a study which has no credibility.

Ella Cockbain, a lecturer in security and crime science, is an expert on child sexual exploitation. She said it “is a case study in bad science: riddled with errors, inconsistencies, a glaring lack of transparency, sweeping claims and gross generalisations unfounded its own ‘data’”.

 

[Buster15]

But that's exactly what they did.

Yes you are right. What I meant to say was that they didn’t intentionally vote to be worse off although that will be what happens.
While I feel for the families of those who have and will loose their jobs, for many, that will be completely self inflicted.

 

[parkthebuslads]

Where are you getting these stats from?


https://fullfact.org/crime/what-do-...le-involved-sexual-offences-against-children/

Ok, rather than resorting to insults, let's speak about facts. Your figure of 84% comes from a study which has no credibility.

Fair enough, I stand corrected!

 

[Shamwow]

If you're talking about patterns within demographics when we'd be best served by dealing with the fact that 98% of offenders are men but none of the right wing men who go on about this stuff seem to want to talk about that.

 

[SalfordRed18]

The simple fact is that such gangs exist and they are typically exclusively comprised of muslims who the victims report to be religiously motivated. Consequentially it is impossible to separate the issue from Islam, hence my use of the descriptor "muslim" when referencing said gang.

In no way is that a commentary of the greater muslim population.

Out of interest, how do you feel about the Catholic church, priests and the salvation army?

 

[parkthebuslads]

I feel the conduct of the Catholic Church, specifically relating to abusive priests has been nothing short of scandalous and disgraceful. Have you seen The Keepers?

This docuseries examines the decades-old murder of Sister Catherine Cesnik and its suspected link to a priest accused of abuse.

It's very powerful, absolutely maddening but very powerful.

As for the salvation army, I know absolutely nothing about them. I assume they too have a rather sordid history?

 

[Dobba]

And the Imam turns out to be an anti Semitic misogynist corbynite, so there you go. Words have consequences.

Really?

 

[FlawlessThaw]

Really?

He said this:

“Every political figure on the Zionist’s payroll is scaring the world about [Jeremy] Corbyn. They don’t like him. He seems best suited to tackle them!”

I think for that to be directly called anti-semetic you have to say Zionism = Judaism which I'm personally not comfortable with. But it's still extremely dodgy.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...d-imam-lambasts-tory-hopefuls-on-islamophobia

Personally I'm more offended and think he deserves to be sacked as he has done for his comments about women needing to be smarter in regards to being sexually assaulted.

 

[Kinsella]

Seems weirdly pedantic to me but OK, let's just revert to calling them bigots then, would you be happier?

Yeah I think it's preferable, and I think that pedantry matters in such cases.

Language is a powerful tool which can used to distract and divert attention away from the really meaningful questions.

 

[Sassy Colin]

Live update on the latest vote:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-48690973

 

[SalfordRed18]

Rory Stewart out according to ITV.

 

[Ubik]

Stewart out, so fantasy it is.

 

[Sassy Colin]

Rory Stewart out according to ITV.

Think so.

 

[Sassy Colin]

From the BBC:

Posted at 18:0718:07
BREAKINGStewart out of leadership race
Rory Stewart has been knocked out of the leadership race, having come last in the third round of voting among Tory MPs with 27 votes.

Boris Johnson has again come out on top, increasing his number of votes to 143, up from the 126 he gained in the ballot yesterday.

Jeremy Hunt remains in second place with 54 votes, Michael Gove is third with 51, and Sajid Javid is fourth with 38. They will all go through to the next round tomorrow.

 

[711]

For no good reason apart from populism it is going to be Boris.
And for no good reason apart from populism it is going to be a no deal exit.
Don't think it is going to turn out well.
Yes the majority voted leave but they didn't vote to be worse off and that is exactly what is going to happen.

I detest Boris but I not sure he's populist at all, he's about as establishment as it's possible to be. I get confused by all the isms though, I may be wrong.

 

[Cheesy]

Stewart almost doubles his support.

People that support Hunt are genuinely interesting me, he is a void of talent and personality.

I think Hunt for the most part has done well at positioning himself between the different wings of the party. He's Remain enough to appease the party Remainers, but from within the party seems to have done well enough to promote himself as someone willing to enact Brexit. Despite being void of anything impressive he seems to have a weird staying power too - despite being unanimously awful as Health Secretary he somehow managed to get a bigger post. If you're a proper radical Tory who wants to masquerade as a One Nation Tory because you're too embarrassed to reveal your worst intentions he's the sort of candidate you might vote for. He won't win but will likely be a key player in what comes next I reckon. The sort probably positioning himself as the PM after the next PM, a bit like Stewart.

 

[LuisNaniencia]

Boris it is. Good luck in Brussels you floppy haired, racist dickweed.

 

[Cheesy]

I detest Boris but I not sure he's populist at all, he's about as establishment as it's possible to be. I get confused by all the isms though, I may be wrong.

He's an establishment politician who has embraced populism. Arguably in the same vein as Trump, who has billed himself as an outsider despite being an incredibly rich and well connected businessman.

 

[Cheesy]

For all the clamour around Rory his position was arguably still one of the most baffling anyway - he seemed to be basically backing May's deal for the most part and somehow thought that could be brought into play again despite the resounding rejection it's consistently received. If he had any balls he'd ditch the party now.