He's struggled with a United side much better than Brightons first team in terms of personnel, let alone the team they're having to put out most weeks. The only reason you might think that's not true is because they're very well coached and look better than the sum of their parts. He'd have them in a relegation battle.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
The entertainment value of your sheer ignorance makes it hard to leave this thread. How the feck can you watch both of those matches with a basic understanding of how professional football works and say the difference between the two matches was tactics. Honest question now, do you actually believe the players played the way they were instructed to on Saturday?A severely depleted Brighton kept them to 5 shots and about 30% possession. Give ETH that Brighton team tonight and he'd get them relegated, I can almost guarantee it.
This explains everythingIt's not really, 4 words without reference to the question, is just a partial quote. "Don't interrupt this process"
He was asked a question about Chelsea and all the changes they made and stability and if there was a warning there for Man Utd that making changes doesn't necessarily mean good changes.
He actually said more along the lines of this.
"You need to follow the process. We are in a good track line, good young players coming through, they are developing very well, so the progress is just telling, we are in a good way, we are in a good direction, now we need to take the next step, don't interrupt this process."
Jim wasn't even mentioned.
We've hired a battle hardened war general
Did I mention tactics? Management is about much more than that. If you understood the nuance of the sport, then you would grasp such a simple concept. Besides, you're providing the entertainment and engagement by pissing in the wind by trying to defend mediocrity. Keep telling everyone else they don't understand football whilst reeling out a new excuse after every game.
Boiled egg in a suit
, sorry that was from Expressions Oozing, couldn't help it.I wouldn't be annoyed in the slightest,he lost 7-0 at Anfield which was utterly unforgivable. He also seems to be full of excuses and then that rubbish last Saturday about City lucky against Brentford just to put the icing on a truly awful cake
Here's a little tidbit of basic coaching info. The heavy work in terms of implementing a system usually happens during the summer, and in a manager's first year you'll typically see more spillover into the season than the second season and beyond. During the season you get more recovery and study of the opposition, but nobody installs tactics in April, especially when the players know what they're being asked to do.
More bs taken out of context, this was all after a discussion about inuries and protecting players.
He was asked a question about having to change training to protect players, due to punishing schedules and overloading.
His answer was that, you don't train you recover and move onto the next game.
Do you believe the players are sabotaging the manager out there? Is what you're implying?
Oh good you finally wrapped your head around something. I've said in multiple posts in this thread that it's on the manager if the players are unmotivated. Keep it up!
It's because we know feck all about football bud.
And this is where it gets annoying. So when we are rubbish, and hammered by other teams, It's because the players don't do what ETH has told them to. This is the new excuse.
But obviously, if we play well, it's because of ETH masterclass.
No. I think the standards at the club in regards to what's demanded of players that wear the shirt have been completely eroded. I can watch a match and understand when the issues are technical or intangible. On the technical side there have been miss steps in adjusting to accommodate players who've had to play significant minutes because of injury, but the flip side of that is having to accommodate players that don't work. I would also have benched both Bruno and Rashford for a few games a long time ago even just for the benefit of other players taking notice.
This is a fecking absolute no. We played a straight 4-2-3-1 with Eriksen sitting deep with Casemiro. Eriksen’s ball progression was pretty good, but he was deep. This season the “brilliant” Ten Hag has McTominay or Mainoo playing much further forward with Casemiro as the lone 6. This is why we’ve been shit. It’s not just me saying this, it’s pundits, ex players and managers.
No no no no. And you’re a fecking wrong because when he inverted the 3 midfielders he had Fred, who is an energetic attack dog and closes down spaces at least twice as fast as Scotty or Bruno or Casemiro.
Seriously, if you think the 4-2-3-1 we played last season during our excellent run and the tactics Ten Hag is using now are the same, you need to rewatch our matches from last season and this season.
Also, my English is pretty damn good. Is Ten Hag accountable for Rashford’s poor performances this season and gets credit for his good season last year? Or accountable for neither???? Seriously, you fellas talk in circles.
Get annoyed then. You've completely pulled that out of your arse btw because I said none of those words. I invite you to answer the question though.
1st bold: Why don't you apply those standards to the manager as well? The manager is talking about progress in press-conferences when we've regressed in every single tangible metric this season.
2nd bolded: What players are being accommodated that don't work? I'm presuming you mean Bruno and Rashford as those players. How do those 2 players(and others) not work specifically?
They definitely do but we aren't in a position to completely clean house due to FFP unfortunately
Because we have no discernable style of play, EtH should be judged purely on results. So he should be sacked if we don't get CL football. I think that's the simple and reasonable calculus to use.
The midfielders in front of ideally Casemiro rotate in who drops deep when we're building possession as it's fluid system. Fred was at his best as a more advanced defensive midfielder in a double pivot. The only difference this season is we're trying to defend higher up the pitch in a 4-3-3, but there's no "straight 4-2-3-1". West Ham run a straight 4-2-3-1 for example. At Ajax, de Jong and Schone weren't a conventional double pivot, and van de Beek and de Jong rotated. We're getting sliced open because we have loafers that are token pressing and not closing passing lanes, which is suicide when you have two central midfielders and full backs high up the pitch. Why the loafers continue to start every match is fair criticism
Defending higher up the pitch is about funneling the opposition into traps. In order for that to happen, there has to be pressure on the ball followed by passing lanes being closed down. You can't do either in the Premier League when even one or two players are jogging (it's not just Bruno and Rashford) because at that point you're getting sliced open even if everyone else is doing their job. I've applied a fair standard to the manager I've lost count how many times. If results don't improve, no matter the reason, he should get sacked.
Sorry but you're coming across as an extremely condescending wum now. We're all united fans so to talking down to everyone like you have been doing isn't a good look especially as 99.9999% of us seem to be seeing the same thing so perhaps you know feck all about football and not us?
As @UnofficialDevil says you seem to be blaming only the players when we're shit but when anything positive happens that's only down to Erik which is utter bollocks.
How long have you been a premiership manager by the way?
Yourself and maybe 2 others are the only ones who can apparently see the genius at work because the rest of us seem to be seeing something completely different.
It's ok to admit you're wrong and it's ok that Erik isn't good enough and half the squad needs booting out. It doesn't have to be only one thing.
Haven't we got worse by every game? How the feck is that progress going in the correct direction?
Exactly.
Genius is a word I never used. I'm seeing the tactics and style of play when it's executed. Please feel free to scroll around and find multiple posts where I said he should be sacked if results don't improve. If you can't see periods of play in almost every match that are so obviously below the minimal effort required of Premier League football players and think that's how they're instructed to play, I'll continue to point it out to you. If you think it's condescending, sorry.
I believe FFP in its current form is being done away with in the summer, and moving to a % of revenue rule instead of the accumulated losses method.
Should give us more firepower going forward, but not sure when that's coming into effect (or even if it's been fully agreed).
I never said you did.
Results aren't improving though are they? Or have you set a time from when this improvement is being measured? Like starting from the Liverpool win or from tomorrow for instance? Not taking the piss, it's a genuine question.
I think there’s a good chance he’s gone if we lose the next two and that’s the nature of football so I’ll have no complaints. I also don’t downplay things like the overall environment fostered at the club by the owners which was at its lowest point when he came in, and that overhauling a squad while trying to implement this type of system takes time even under ideal circumstances, and the circumstances have been far from ideal.
No he fecking doesn't. Maybe if he wins the FA Cup, but he won't.
Still wouldn't because didn't save LVG when he missed out on Champions League Football
It’s not just about cleaning house in one transfer window nice as that would be. There just need to be departures that enforce a standard that a player either meets or he’s gone. This might seem utopian for us because of what we’ve grown accustomed to, but it’s how most clubs operate.
Would that not require cleaning house then, as you put it? There's about 10/15 players that don't meet the standard. That needs to be done, probably over a max of the next 2 seasons.. so 2 summer windows.
Sorry, maybe I've pitched in from an earlier discussion. I was just pointing out that FFP is set to be changed in the summer and should give us more wiggle room from a financial POV.
I'm always surprised by how bad people are at the internet - like, what are you even on about?
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I wish that was realistic but just as the erosion happened gradually reversing it will take a little time too. With that being said we need to be as aggressive as possible with this in the summer.
I mean he's spinning his side of the story, so fair play. If he doesn't someone will make up a narrative for him, so might as well get in control.
But anyone who isn't blind can see that there is no recognizable style of play after half a billion spent and 2 years of coaching time. This excuse was valid maybe half way into the first season, not now.
its so weird how people who spend so much time online still struggle with this concept, it's so blatantly obvious too.We're probably looking at a 5 year project to win major honours again, but I think it shouldn't take any longer than 2/3 seasons for a club with our stature and resources to be properly competitive again.
Other clubs seem to manage significant overhauls time and time again while we dither over whether to sell Lingard for £15m, and then sit him on the bench and let him go on a free. Even the removal of some truly moronic decision making should improve us greatly from an operational POV, low hanging fruit and all that.
Doing it should be possible in a relatively swift timeframe, doing it right is another story.
I'm sorry but if I saw progress from season 1 to season 2 then yes I would be on board with this, can't help but feel like we've majorly regressed though, we look god awful. Players constantly injured as well.. like, show me something if you want the backing because I guarantee at the moment INEOS aren't liking the look of what they see in terms of playstyle and results
I don’t think the Glazers dithered in this regard as much as they just saw it as selling one asset and have to pay more for the replacement. Arsenal and Aubameyang is in a nutshell what needs to happen here on a larger scale.
I clearly remember that time. We were playing with Lingard and Perreira as no.10s and clearly they were not good enough. And I said at that time, I won't waste my time watching United if they don't buy an AM. Why should I care about their season if they don't? And then of course Bruno came and the rest is history.
Why do you defend Ten Hag so much? His coaching and tactics have been absolutely woeful this season so much so that the 7th position on the league table flatters us. Many of those victories and draws we've had were undeserved. All this is obvious.