Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

Mike Smalling said:

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Insane stat. It's obviously a combination of many things, but it's crazy how reliant we are on teenagers.

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We have teo outstanding young players in Garnacho and Mainoo. So it makes sense especially with the injuries, Antony being Antony and Sancho being frozen out that they've played so much.

Berbaclass said:

Again, I don't agree. It can quite easily have a short-term impact in that context too.

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Especially if it transpires that INEOs and ETH are completely on the same page and able to work well together.

He could very well be the right man at the right time for however they plan on getting us back to the top.

May not mean he will be the man to get us to the top, but could be the man to help the club during that transition.

spwd said:

There doesn't seem to be anything different in that article than before or did I miss something?

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Yeah it was my mistake I thought it was a new article initially.

Chumpsbechumps said:

Especially if it transpires that INEOs and ETH are completely on the same page and able to work well together.

He could very well be the right man at the right time for however they plan on getting us back to the top.

May not mean he will be the man to get us to the top, but could be the man to help the club during that transition.

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I think at the moment it's quite possible he sees his final year out and then we bring in the new manager in 2025 (Nagelsmann?), Ashworth will work on the manager and the targets in the next year.

I am weakening my stance. I really, really don’t want Southgate or Potter. Of those are definitely the only alternatives on the shortlist, I would prefer to just see this cycle through and hope it clicks, rather than start another cycle doomed to failure.

If it’s another 20+ loss season, hopefully Potter/Southgate will have moved on before then.

If Southgate is even on the shortlist, it worries me about INEOS

ManRed said:

Hats off to United fans. I am baffled that a manager who has underperformed all season, missing out on champions league spot by a margin, out of champions league in group stage is still being backed in here.

Ange at Spurs has come in and lost the club leading scorer is ahead. Emery who joined after Ten Hag is ahead at a smaller club. Yet fans think Ten Hag is the answer.

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Did either of those have Licha Martinez and Luke Shaw injured all season, though?

Berbaclass said:

I think at the moment it's quite possible he sees his final year out and then we bring in the new manager in 2025 (Nagelsmann?), Ashworth will work on the manager and the targets in the next year.

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Yeh, I mean if this summer is INEOs starting to stamp the structure, then it would stand to reason that the potential new manager next season would be inheriting a better squad at a better club who’d be starting in a much stronger position. Kind of like how city were getting things ready before pep even joined.

Chumpsbechumps said:

Yeh, I mean if this summer is INEOs starting to stamp the structure, then it would stand to reason that the potential new manager next season would be inheriting a better squad at a better club who’d be starting in a much stronger position. Kind of like how city were getting things ready before pep even joined.

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Yeah pretty much. They seem to be trying to go along with the City model.

stevoc said:

That is the bit that I wonder about if I'm honest. The club structure has been at best outdated and at worst shit, I think we can all agree on that. Everyone the Glazers hired for key positions are/were incompetent and the people they in turn hired also incompetent and they all need sacked. We recruit poorly, the wrong type of players, at the wrong times, without the right profile for the football we want to play, not good enough, not athletic enough, they're invaribly too old and/or we paid too much and they all need sold.

Now all of that is true to some extent or another, yet this circus full of incompetent clowns, has somehow despite getting virtually everything else wrong. Unearthed a gem of a manager who needs time and patience (and presumably another £600-800m) to bossom into a collosus who will lead us to untold glory.

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Yup they can't very well blame the structure for his problems if it picked this Colossus in the first place. So is it the structure (no) or he's just useless? (Yes).

My prediction is he gets a conditional 1 year extension. If he doesn’t meet certain expectations/targets then they can terminate the contract at a lower price. Allows the transition to be smoother but also protects the club and or INEOS from the financial hit.

Chumpsbechumps said:

Yeh, I mean if this summer is INEOs starting to stamp the structure, then it would stand to reason that the potential new manager next season would be inheriting a better squad at a better club who’d be starting in a much stronger position. Kind of like how city were getting things ready before pep even joined.

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But Erik is a stubborn bastard so will he want to stay if he's being told he has to do things the Ineos way?

DWelbz19 said:

Did either of those have Licha Martinez and Luke Shaw injured all season, though?

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Who has had them missing for the whole of the season? Because it wasn't us.

Berbaclass said:

My prediction is he gets a conditional 1 year extension. If he doesn’t meet certain expectations/targets then they can terminate the contract at a lower price. Allows the transition to be smoother but also protects the club and or INEOS from the financial hit.

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Why would they do that if he costs us CL football this term and could likely cost us again next season? If we think he is the right guy then we back him no matter what but if we have doubts itts better to move on early rather than waste a year of progression with someone you don't trust.

There could be a deficit of obvious big names in the market but that paucity could be a good thing for us because it forces the executives to really think things through rather than see next shiny toy as the antidote to this mediocrity. Under the Glazers Ten Hag is the only manager who you can say they went beyond the obvious, things are going wrong but the thought process that dominated this hire should continue - look beyond the accolades but at the football, it's too bad they then gave him control of all recruitment leading us to where we are.

AneRu said:

Why would they do that if he costs us CL football this term and could likely cost us again next season? If we think he is the right guy then we back him no matter what but if we have doubts itts better to move on early rather than waste a year of progression with someone you don't trust.

There could be a deficit of obvious big names in the market but that paucity could be a good thing for us because it forces the executives to really think things through rather than see next shiny toy as the antidote to this mediocrity. Under the Glazers Ten Hag is the only manager who you can say they went beyond the obvious, things are going wrong but the thought process that dominated this hire should continue - look beyond the accolades but at the football, it's too bad they then gave him control of all recruitment leading us to where we are.

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I think his remit has always been CL qualification and last year they didn't expect to get it so he's bought himself a little time with that despite doing poorly this year. If he didn't there still wouldn't be any ambiguity.

There are also just not many great options out there.

Berbaclass said:

My prediction is he gets a conditional 1 year extension. If he doesn’t meet certain expectations/targets then they can terminate the contract at a lower price. Allows the transition to be smoother but also protects the club and or INEOS from the financial hit.

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His current contract will almost certainly have those in place though. And given all the post SAF managers reportedly had minimum performance clauses related to qualifying for the CL inserted in them. Why would they extend that contract when he is likely to fail in meeting those criteria this season?

Berbaclass said:

The standards come from the top of the club. It's not meaningless at all, you're just failing to grasp it.

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The standards can be set by the top, but the things I listed all come from the manager. Even if longer term strategy and planning and squad building is greatly improved, that wont rescue a shit manager and wont transform a squad in one transfer window.

Also, the only way to actually improve standards is by punishing failure and eliminating failures.

Maluco said:

I am weakening my stance. I really, really don’t want Southgate or Potter. Of those are definitely the only alternatives on the shortlist, I would prefer to just see this cycle through and hope it clicks, rather than start another cycle doomed to failure.

If it’s another 20+ loss season, hopefully Potter/Southgate will have moved on before then.

If Southgate is even on the shortlist, it worries me about INEOS

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Don't worry about things beyond your control. Try simply to enjoy watching United when something specially good happens, on the pitch moreso.

stevoc said:

His current contract will almost certainly have those in place though. And given all the post SAF managers reportedly had minimum performance clauses related to qualifying for the CL inserted in them. Why would they extend that contract when he is likely to fail in meeting those criteria this season?

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Hasn't Jimmy already confirmed that he's got the same clause about CL qualification as all of his predecessors?

I think it's all being set up for him to go in the summer. We've just not jumped the gun in announcing it because we don't want to completely write off the rest of the season.

stevoc said:

His current contract will almost certainly have those in place though. And given all the post SAF managers reportedly had minimum performance clauses related to qualifying for the CL inserted in them. Why would they extend that contract when he is likely to fail in meeting those criteria this season?

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His current contract will be re-written if he stays, hence the 'extension'

Whether ETH gets a temporary lease or not, this thread will generate thousands more responses till his end as a Manchester United manager.

Berbaclass said:

I think his remit has always been CL qualification and last year they didn't expect to get it so he's bought himself a little time with that despite doing poorly this year. If he didn't there still wouldn't be any ambiguity.

There are also just not many great options out there.

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Who didn't expect it though the Glazers or Ineos?

Like all managers hired by United since Moyes CL has always been the minimum goal and every manager's been sacked when they failed to meet that expectation (Moyes and Louis) or looked like they were going to fail to meet it (Jose and Ole). I suspect if he'd finished 5th-8th last season he'd have been sacked. I also suspect if we hadn't been going through a takeover process and had a full time CEO in place he'd have already been sacked this season.

Berbaclass said:

His current contract will be re-written if he stays, hence the 'extension'

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Why would they bother doing that though? Why give him an extension with perfromance clauses that make it cheaper to sack him if he performs poorly. When his current contract which runs another year has those same clauses and it would allow them to sack him for a relatively small amount this summer.

ManRed said:

Ange at Spurs has come in and lost the club leading scorer is ahead. Emery who joined after Ten Hag is ahead at a smaller club. Yet fans think Ten Hag is the answer.

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Sure this season Ange and Emery have performed better, but I'd be weary of changing the manager on a yearly basis.

Managers who have all had good spells in the last year or so De Zerbi, Howe, Emery, Ange could all easily struggle next season. I wouldn't even say they have been amazing this season either, and they will all most likely end the season with zero trophies.

Alex99 said:

Hasn't Jimmy already confirmed that he's got the same clause about CL qualification as all of his predecessors?

I think it's all being set up for him to go in the summer. We've just not jumped the gun in announcing it because we don't want to completely write off the rest of the season.

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Not sure if Jim mentioned it but according to reputable sources over the years every United manager has had them in their contract.

I also think he and United will part ways this summer. They'll frame it as Ineos wanting to go in a different direction and it's mutual.

hobbers said:

The standards can be set by the top, but the things I listed all come from the manager. Even if longer term strategy and planning and squad building is greatly improved, that wont rescue a shit manager and wont transform a squad in one transfer window.

Also, the only way to actually improve standards is by punishing failure and eliminating failures.

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The standards are set from the top.

No one specified that it had to or indeed would.

I disagree that it can't have a short-term impact though, I think it will most certainly have a short-term impact.

Berbaclass said:

I think his remit has always been CL qualification and last year they didn't expect to get it so he's bought himself a little time with that despite doing poorly this year. If he didn't there still wouldn't be any ambiguity.

There are also just not many great options out there.

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Last year they sanctioned a huge panic spending spree after two defeats. They clearly wanted CL qualification otherwise they would have said we are in it for the long haul with this manager and left it at that. He would have stabilized later on and probably qualified for the Europa. CL was the target.

What he surpassed was the expectations in terms of long unbeaten runs that had everyone believing he could challenge if he got a striker, a midfielder and a CB. He got a kid learning on the job, a couple of midfielders not suited to what the team needed and rehabilitated Harry Maguire. The team regressed and injuries piled on but the systemic issues that could get any team slaughtered in this league are still there, that's on him.

stevoc said:

Who didn't expect it though the Glazers or Ineos?

Like all managers hired by United since Moyes CL has always been the minimum goal and every manager's been sacked when they failed to meet that expectation (Moyes and Louis) or looked like they were going to fail to meet it (Jose and Ole). I suspect if he'd finished 5th-8th last season he'd have been sacked. I also suspect if we hadn't been going through a takeover process and had a full time CEO in place he'd have already been sacked this season.

Probably either, the mess we were in when he took over.

Why would they bother doing that though? Why give him an extension with perfromance clauses that make it cheaper to sack him if he performs poorly. When his current contract which runs another year has those same clauses and it would allow them to sack him for a relatively small amount this summer.

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Becasue he has it written into his contract some of the power he currently has. That needs to change for him to stay as they don't want to give him as much as he currently has so it will need to be re-written.

ManRed said:

Hats off to United fans. I am baffled that a manager who has underperformed all season, missing out on champions league spot by a margin, out of champions league in group stage is still being backed in here.

Ange at Spurs has come in and lost the club leading scorer is ahead. Emery who joined after Ten Hag is ahead at a smaller club. Yet fans think Ten Hag is the answer.

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Wonder what Ten Hag did in his first season

RuudTom83 said:

Sure this season Ange and Emery have performed better, but I'd be weary of changing the manager on a yearly basis.

Managers who have all had good spells in the last year or so De Zerbi, Howe, Emery, Ange could all easily struggle next season. I wouldn't even say they have been amazing this season either, and they will all most likely end the season with zero trophies.

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The salient point is that all the managers you are pointing at are hired by clubs who have slim hopes of landing managers - for the time when they will underperform - that we United fans are rightly considering as second choice. Hell I'd argue that ETH will think twice before accepting their offer if or when he gets the sack.

AneRu said:

Last year they sanctioned a huge panic spending spree after two defeats. They clearly wanted CL qualification otherwise they would have said we are in it for the long haul with this manager and left it at that. He would have stabilized later on and probably qualified for the Europa. CL was the target.

What he surpassed was the expectations in terms of long unbeaten runs that had everyone believing he could challenge if he got a striker, a midfielder and a CB. He got a kid learning on the job, a couple of midfielders not suited to what the team needed and rehabilitated Harry Maguire. The team regressed and injuries piled on but the systemic issues that could get any team slaughtered in this league are still there, that's on him.

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I think they saw the end of the season before and the way we started the new one and thought we might have been in freefall, hence the panic on Casemiro etc. That was to steady the ship after letting a bunch of big players go like Pogba etc.

Luffy said:

Don't worry about things beyond your control. Try simply to enjoy watching United when something specially good happens, on the pitch moreso.

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It’s been a tough ask this season, it really has.

VP89 said:

Wonder what Ten Hag did in his first season

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Win the title for us? Silly me of course he did win us the Uefa champions league cup.

Luffy said:

Win the title for us? Silly me of course he did win us the Uefa champions league cup.

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Since when in the last 11-12 years has winning the title been an actual goal? Not many times if any.

The Glazers only cared about the UCL qualifications to keep milking the club.

Alex99 said:

Hasn't Jimmy already confirmed that he's got the same clause about CL qualification as all of his predecessors?

I think it's all being set up for him to go in the summer. We've just not jumped the gun in announcing it because we don't want to completely write off the rest of the season.

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They are probably already sounding out managers, if this is the case. We are noy getting 5th now. I do believe the Southgate to Utd rumours are just that though. they wouldnt want to show their hand just in case it backfires. The only way TH stays is if the managerial target cant/wont come to Utd until end of next season, as in the release clause costing a fortune.

VP89 said:

Wonder what Ten Hag did in his first season

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I see VP is still here defending ETH. I was on holiday and read with some bemusement the reactions to the Liverpool match. One of our worst performances against our big rivals possibly ever, yet one somewhat fluky goal and a wonder from Mainoo and all is forgiven. We were awful and the stats speak for themselves. Exactly the same problems as at the start of the season, when he had a near full squad. Massively open, pass easily bypassed, no midfield. Rinse and repeat. His chaotic style and pressure it puts on players is undoubtedly a factor in our horrible injury record. He has to go. Great to see Murtough out the door, another Glazer yes man who was promoted way above his ability. There is simply nothing happening on the pitch that can merit giving ETH another season, its a poor man's Ole ball.

spwd said:

But Erik is a stubborn bastard so will he want to stay if he's being told he has to do things the Ineos way?

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I believe he’s already been told how INEOs will be doing things , he doesn’t look like somebody going through the motions until he’s let go. I get the impression he will be happy to have competent adults to help him and would prefer a structure that will allow him to focus just on coaching.

In terms of him being stubborn, where exactly is this idea coming from ?

I mean, I think we all understand why he wouldn’t be wanting United and its non existent football structure to be deciding who we target. I’d of thought most fans would of been happy that United managers weren’t leaving Woodward and Arnold in charge of recruitment on any capacity.

But with INEOs that will change so I’d expect a reasonable coach , especially one not exactly acing it, to be content with a loosening of power for effectively a second chance. He wins by not being sacked and United wins by having an extra year to get the club in order for our potenyial next manager. So even if it doesn’t work with ETH, our new manager will be joining a club that can replace its manager with little fuss.

Berbaclass said:

I think his remit has always been CL qualification and last year they didn't expect to get it so he's bought himself a little time with that despite doing poorly this year. If he didn't there still wouldn't be any ambiguity.

There are also just not many great options out there.

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I feel this idea that “United are a massive club” is the same kind of mentality of Liverpool fans in late 90s when they were doing nothing.

From a football perspective, purely football, we’ve done little more than spurs. Do any big clubs talk about a sporadic FA cup, league cup and Europa league win ? They do on their f**k.

United has been a nothing club for 12 years. But some fans haven’t caught up to the fact and still expect managers to come in and make United great again “cause big transfer spend”…. United have massive exposure because of our fanbase. Also the one credit I will give to Woodward/glazers is that they do market us really well. Talk about dressing up a hooker to look like a lady, they’ve pretty womaned United .

I only recently watched “man in the high castle”. In it , there is a man with “traditional American cultural antiques” but he starts to make fake copies and selling them to stupid rich Japanese that don’t know the difference. This has been uniteds transfer policy for 12 years. Managers have been nothing to do with us being ripped off.

If we had Klopp as manager , do people think we would have gotten salah for 36.5 million ? That’s what we spent on Donny van Der beek. I mean even at that, supposedly Klopp actually wanted Brandt over Salah but the Liverpool transfer board overruled him. Who at United would have told Klopp Salah was a better target ? And then imagine it compounded over 7 years, would Klopp have the same squad even though he’d have a bigger budget ?

This is why I feel our managers aren’t at fault for our transfers. They don’t negotiate fees, don’t negotiate contracts and in well run clubs they don’t just pick who they want; there is a process that’s actually based on a club plan that everybody is working towards.

Berbaclass said:

My prediction is he gets a conditional 1 year extension. If he doesn’t meet certain expectations/targets then they can terminate the contract at a lower price. Allows the transition to be smoother but also protects the club and or INEOS from the financial hit.

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Why would he agree to that? Lower salary, lower payout on sacking, gets to be fired as the man who couldn't get a tune out of United despite spending £400m + whatever he gets in the summer, despite having all this new structure around him that previous managers have used as an excuse after being fired.

I'm convinced people think whomever the manager is that they must love the club inside out, or that they're a United fan who wants what's best for the club at their own expense. Ten Hag can be fired this summer and have a million excuses, some valid and enough to cause a new employer reasonable doubt. Next year he's going back to Holland on the express train if he fecks up, there's absolutely no sane reason as to why he'd take a 1 year extension.

Berbaclass said:

My prediction is he gets a conditional 1 year extension. If he doesn’t meet certain expectations/targets then they can terminate the contract at a lower price. Allows the transition to be smoother but also protects the club and or INEOS from the financial hit.

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Ten Hag signed a 3 year contract with an option for a 4th, why would anyone be looking at extending it? He'd be extremely fortunate if he gets the opportunity to start the 3rd year of that contract.

CM said:

Ten Hag signed a 3 year contract with an option for a 4th, why would anyone be looking at extending it? He'd be extremely fortunate if he gets the opportunity to start the 3rd year of that contract.

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He's not staying on his current terms. I've stated why multiple times.

crossy1686 said:

Why would he agree to that? Lower salary, lower payout on sacking, gets to be fired as the man who couldn't get a tune out of United despite spending £400m + whatever he gets in the summer, despite having all this new structure around him that previous managers have used as an excuse after being fired.

I'm convinced people think whomever the manager is that they must love the club inside out, or that they're a United fan who wants what's best for the club at their own expense. Ten Hag can be fired this summer and have a million excuses, some valid and enough to cause a new employer reasonable doubt. Next year he's going back to Holland on the express train if he fecks up, there's absolutely no sane reason as to why he'd take a 1 year extension.

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Because he either gets sacked or effectively agrees to a demotion from manager to head coach which would require a new contract.