Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

Tom Van Persie said:

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Why do we need to delay it further with more shit like this? SJR watches the games every week and can see he's awful. Just get rid.

Chairman Steve said:

They’re setting it up so it doesn’t look like some kind of cutthroat, ruthless sacking and look more like a measured, mutual parting between parties.

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Or they are setting up the argument for an extension. "We deeply looked into the data and opinions within the club and strongly believe that Erik Ten Hag is the right man to lead our long term plans.".

Jev said:

Seems absurd to keep him in the job if they harbour such doubts about him.

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Exactly. You don't have somebody doing a full audit on the manager one month before the season ends if they had any sort of confidence in him. Nothing over the next month is going to convince them that sacking ten Hag would be a huge mistake. I'm convinced he's gone at the end of the season and the reason why will not just be because of poor results but because he's not aligned with our new structure.

Cassidy said:

I think Mount is a good addition for where we are trying to go as a club (more high intensity pressing) which he is really good at.
Martinez is a good player also

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They are but whether or not they can overcome their injury problems is a worry.

Red_toad said:

He'd be a 2 year manager. Maybe the new sporting crew want someone a bit more long term. Plus we're never clearing the decks and starting from fresh with the squad in 1 window. I full expect numerous players just not getting the hint and sitting out their contracts, whilst causing issues in the dressing room. So Tuchel would have issues managing such an environment.

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They'd just get sent away on loan or told to piss off. Easily solved.

Cassidy said:

I'm not going to count Mainoo who is a teenager and missed a lot of the season due to injury anyway.
But yes that means significant minutes for his signings this season is really Onana, and Hojlund + Garnacho who was promoted. So 3 players? Antony turned out to be a flop (this can happen) and Casemiro missed half the season. Its actually not a lot of work we have done. Infact worse as you pointed out we let a lot of senior players leave, some on a free (which we should have) without adequate replacements (this is a problem)
Its not surprising though given how the club operates

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That's more a plus than a negative with how terrible he has performed this season, the ironic thing is it's been the pre ten hag players that have been his best performers - Maguire, rashford (last season, mctominay and Fernandes

Tom Van Persie said:

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Utterly ridiculous. We'll never learn. What the feck have they been doing for 12 months? And they're going to judge him against relegation fodder. First red flag if true, and I was one supporting the Ineos bid.

VP89 said:

It's the right way to assess the situation to be fair

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Yeah. They will basically write off anything that has happened this season so far and will make their own assessment. This all probably leads to what I have been saying for a long time which is a new 2-3 year contract and a blank sheet for next year. He will be re-assessed in a years time and if there’s improvement over this season possibly given another year.

pocco said:

Utterly ridiculous. We'll never learn. What the feck have they been doing for 12 months? And they're going to judge him against relegation fodder. First red flag if true, and I was one supporting the Ineos bid.

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They will be very patient with him I expect.

Big Ben Foster said:

The vast majority of managers are "two year managers". Trying to find the next Fergie isn't realistic.

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I believe the club are looking for a long term manager, not a quick fix and end up sacking him in a year or so manager. Time will tell if that's what happens.

VP89 said:

It's the right way to assess the situation to be fair

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Really? Ask the guy they're assessing if he's up to the job, along with his staff that he brought here?

How is Jason Wilcox going to assess his training sessions? What are his credentials? You can't judge a manager on a few training sessions.

Tom Van Persie said:

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So I mean this is as good as saying he's got one month to turn things around otherwise he's gone, which effectively means we're looking for his replacement. There's no chance he stays anyway

bosnian_red said:

So I mean this is as good as saying he's got one month to turn things around otherwise he's gone, which effectively means we're looking for his replacement. There's no chance he stays anyway

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We have some easy games coming up and nobody expects us to beat City in the final. He’s staying.

I have strongly been in the “ETH indifferent” camp for so long because I know the real issue denying long term success isn’t our manager. For me, fix the broader footballing structure first and focus on removing rotten parts of the club. Thats not me endorsing ETH. It’s me saying that if we sack him, a lot of people who should be in the spotlight at the club for doing a shit ass job (players, scouts, whoever) take a big sigh of relief because, once again, “we go again” with a new manager and they get another lifeline.

I still believe this by the way. But, what I saw yesterday was so farcical and so pathetic that this man can get fecked. I know it’s not all on him though, so I just hope we do behind the scenes what we need to, with or without a manager change.

bosnian_red said:

So I mean this is as good as saying he's got one month to turn things around otherwise he's gone, which effectively means we're looking for his replacement. There's no chance he stays anyway

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He'll fill their head with the same garbage as he's done with some of our fans. I doubt his staff or the players will call for his head. The players get to play every week even when they play shite, they'll want to keep him around bar maybe 2 or 3 players. Half of them are his signings too.

And if Ineos decide to leave it in till May to start assessing new manages, whilst other top clubs are already actively talking to the best available managers, then they're going to learn a painful lesson when it comes back to bite them.

How’s this stuff coming out in the papers? I doubt ETH will want to stick around even if INEOS decide to keep him for another year. This is not exactly a ringing endorsement of the work he’s been doing. And rightly so.

crossy1686 said:

Do we not need a rebuild now anyway? And what would be the point in hiring all these technical positions around the manager (DOF, Technical director, etc) if we're just going to let Ten Hag or the next manager rebuild the squad in their image? The new recruitment team are going to do all the hiring and firing from this point on so the managers position should be scrutinised for the actual managing, not all these intangibles and what ifs.

Ten Hag got lucky with Garnacho and Mainoo. Mainoo has been chased by City since before Ten Hag arrived and Garnacho was poached from Atletico Madrid after being identified as one of the best up and coming young talents in Europe, just before Brexit came into effect. These players would have succeeded regardless of who our manager was these last couple of years.

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Have I said I wanted Ten Hag to rebuild in his own image? I was rather saying the contrary, that it goes from the top down with recruitment first, and a manager with eye for developing talent as the most important thing.

Garnacho was not touted as the new big talent, but just a good scouting job from our side really - United paid Atletico 420k, so that is in stark contrast to a widely known talent like Hannibal for 9m. His price would simply be way higher, if he was known for being a huge talent.

Mainoo, maybe - other managers would have given him the chance too, but would he have blossomed under Ole or Mourinho? We'll never know.

I think EtH has lost some motivational factor and it seems many players have gone on holiday mentally, had he had that there would be some hope for him to continue, but it doesn't seem to be the case that he can motivate the players no more. It's a shame as I think he has actually developed some players to play more pro active and more technically (Dalot, Wan Bissaka, Mainoo, Garnacho, Maguire, McTominay)

A lot has been against him. Many injuries, Onana only being good for 1/3 of a season and then there's the players he should've gotten more out of: Casemiro, Rashford, Sancho, Antony which is a bad sign when a manager can't get the best out of his (in theory) best players. Bruno also, who have gone a bit sideways or regressed.

The team would be better off with some of these highly paid players, as it also would reset the expectations for the fanbase a bit - We as fans have little to no patience and a new manager will probably take at least 2-3 years to have succes. It's like we never learn and there's no alignment with the fans for what a monumental challenge we stand in front of.

pocco said:

Really? Ask the guy they're assessing if he's up to the job, along with his staff that he brought here?

How is Jason Wilcox going to assess his training sessions? What are his credentials? You can't judge a manager on a few training sessions.

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Is this a serious question? They have brought in an asset well rehearsed in understanding organisational set ups of a squad and the harmony around it and you're asking how he's qualified to judge it?

Sarni said:

We have some easy games coming up and nobody expects us to beat City in the final. He’s staying.

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We have 2 easy games and then 4 games I don't expect us to win before the cup final. Currently in 7th, can see Chelsea overtaking us. No chance he stays.

VP89 said:

Is this a serious question? They have brought in an asset well rehearsed in understanding organisational set ups of a squad and the harmony around it and you're asking how he's qualified to judge it?

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How is he qualified to judge the quality of Ten Hags training sessions? He's never coached to the level he has. I'm sure they'll look like any other training session, apart from ETH will probably roll out the excuses about not being able to do tactical work for 18 months because of injuries etc.

But the main point is, how is judging training sessions the right way to judge a manager? That's like a small area of his remit and is mostly covered by coaches. Even if his coaching was great, he got on with the players and all that other stuff, he can still not be good enough. I'm sure Ole put on good sessions, got on with the players etc, yet he wasn't good enough. It's just the daftest thing I've heard.

pocco said:

He'll fill their head with the same garbage as he's done with some of our fans. I doubt his staff or the players will call for his head. The players get to play every week even when they play shite, they'll want to keep him around bar maybe 2 or 3 players. Half of them are his signings too.

And if Ineos decide to leave it in till May to start assessing new manages, whilst other top clubs are already actively talking to the best available managers, then they're going to learn a painful lesson when it comes back to bite them.

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Eh there's already loads of talk about tuchel recently. Definitely see a scenario that we just replace Ten Hag with Tuchel at the end of the season and that's that. He's a big manager, definitely up to it tactically and has had success across multiple clubs, might not be the best in the league but knows how to set a team up to succeed in cups while being still a good team in the league. It's a no brainer, even if he's not "it" when it comes to competing with Pep. But to be honest I think we just forget about that dream for now...

pocco said:

How is he qualified to judge the quality of Ten Hags training sessions? He's never coached to the level he has. I'm sure they'll look like any other training session, apart from ETH will probably roll out the excuses about not being able to do tactical work for 18 months because of injuries etc.

But the main point is, how is judging training sessions the right way to judge a manager? That's like a small area of his remit and is mostly covered by coaches. Even if his coaching was great, he got on with the players and all that other stuff, he can still not be good enough. I'm sure Ole put on good sessions, got on with the players etc, yet he wasn't good enough. It's just the daftest thing I've heard.

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I dont think you've actually read everything he's asked to do. You're focusing on one area when it's quite clearly a much broader audit.

Hes not there just to see if the tactics make sense.

You don't make known you're auditing someone doing conspicuously poorly with a view to keeping them on longer.

bosnian_red said:

Eh there's already loads of talk about tuchel recently. Definitely see a scenario that we just replace Ten Hag with Tuchel at the end of the season and that's that. He's a big manager, definitely up to it tactically and has had success across multiple clubs, might not be the best in the league but knows how to set a team up to succeed in cups while being still a good team in the league. It's a no brainer, even if he's not "it" when it comes to competing with Pep. But to be honest I think we just forget about that dream for now...

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Hopefully you're right and this is all bollocks, because what this says to me is that they're assessing him only now after everything that's happened, and the bar is set incredibly low. Put on a few good seasons, look happy and jovial, and he'll keep his job.

It's just two fingers up at the supporters who have endured a season of shit, if not longer, and are now being told none of that matters. Clean slate. Finish bottom of a piss easy CL group? Doesn't matter. Negative GS? Doesn't matter. Schooled by managers and teams up and down the league all season? Doesn't matter.

Like I said, hopefully you are right and this is just a story to lay the foundations for him being sacked and it appearing to have had the new guys involved. But if it's true then it's worrying and I fully exist he'll keep his job and be handed a nice new contract. Afterall, we've become great at rewarding mediocrity. Why break the habit of the last 10 years?

VP89 said:

I dont think you've actually read everything he's asked to do. You're focusing on one area when it's quite clearly a much broader audit.

Hes not there just to see if the tactics make sense.

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I read it and I don't see anything in there that's going to get to the crux of the issues with him. That's why you think it's a great way of assessing him because you know it too.

pocco said:

I read it and I don't see anything in there that's going to get to the crux of the issues with him. That's why you think it's a great way of assessing him because you know it too.

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What are you on about? They are literally auditing all the facets of his management. Are you just whinging for the sake of whinging?

If he's as bad in coaching and all affiliated parts of the management remit as the output suggests then he'd be swiftly sacked.

This sounds like off the cuff boardroom amateur hour stuff again.

Auditing a current manager who's failed their job targets by every metric? Why? And you cant fairly audit a football manager publicly either, now all the players know he's being examined for the sack even more presciently than they did before. What a joke we still are.

If you want to sack him have the balls to sack him, without this pathetic charade for the tabloid hacks.

hobbers said:

This sounds like off the cuff boardroom amateur hour stuff again.

Auditing a current manager who's failed their job targets by every metric? Why? And you cant fairly audit a football manager publicly either, now all the players know he's being examined for the sack even more presciently than they did before. What a joke we still are.

If you want to sack him have the balls to sack him, without a pathetic charade to make it look like a carefully considered evaluation to the tabloid hacks.

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Because competent owners would look at the root cause to be sure the manager is the problem, and not part of a wider problem?
I don't get the bitching, if he's remotely as bad as a lot of posters claim he'll get the sack. What harm does an audit do?

I'm fine with an audit, as long as it arrives at the conclusion I desire

VP89 said:

Because competent owners would look at the root cause to be sure the manager is the problem, and not part of a wider problem?
I don't get the bitching, if he's remotely as bad as a lot of posters claim he'll get the sack. What harm does an audit do?

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Competent owners would just recognise that the manager is currently one of a number of problems and look to fix the problem. I dont need an audit to know Ten Hag isn't a good enough coach or manager for this club and nor does anyone else.

How many well run football clubs can you think of who have carried out performative, media-driven audits of failed managers before sacking them? It's a farce.

VP89 said:

Because competent owners would look at the root cause to be sure the manager is the problem, and not part of a wider problem?
I don't get the bitching, if he's remotely as bad as a lot of posters claim he'll get the sack. What harm does an audit do?

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And an audit was necessary anyway even if they already decided to sack him simply because it can inform their decision on what could work better outside of ETH. The issue though is that it shouldn't have been public because if ETH is kept and he is in the hotseat next season then Wilcox judgement will be tarnished publicly when his audit could still be totally accurate.

hobbers said:

Competent owners would just recognise that the manager is currently a problem and look to fix the problem.

How many well run football clubs can you think of who have carried out performative, media-driven audits of failed managers before sacking them? It's a farce.

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There's pretty much no comparative examples of clubs in this situation you can take so you're just talking horseshit.

Saying it's media led is a bit loose too - it's one source who isn't exactly tier one. If it was a leak you'd see it from multiple credible sources. No idea if its true or false but its good to see our owners being thorough and getting someone worth their salt to carry out a review. Might as well, if he's leaving at the end of the season its good to deep dive into the what went wrong element whilst hes still here.

JPRouve said:

And an audit was necessary anyway even if they already decided to sack him simply because it can inform their decision on what could work better outside of ETH. The issue though is that it shouldn't have been public because if ETH is kept and he is in the hotseat next season then Wilcox judgement will be tarnished publicly when his audit could still be totally accurate.

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Agreed - though I doubt its a club leak.

stevoc said:

On the bright side we kept Coventry under 20 shots on our goal today.

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bosnian_red said:

Eh there's already loads of talk about tuchel recently. Definitely see a scenario that we just replace Ten Hag with Tuchel at the end of the season and that's that. He's a big manager, definitely up to it tactically and has had success across multiple clubs, might not be the best in the league but knows how to set a team up to succeed in cups while being still a good team in the league. It's a no brainer, even if he's not "it" when it comes to competing with Pep. But to be honest I think we just forget about that dream for now...

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Read the article about ten Hag being on trial, Tuchel isn't being considered as he's thought of as being hard to work with after his stints with Chelsea and Bayern, apparently we don't want to rock the boat even more.

It also says Southgate and Potter won't be considered as we're sceptical if they have the credibility to command the respect of the dressing room.

Edit: Link to article, check comments

Fecking incredible

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hobbers said:

Competent owners would just recognise that the manager is currently one of a number of problems and look to fix the problem. I dont need an audit to know Ten Hag isn't a good enough coach or manager for this club and nor does anyone else.

How many well run football clubs can you think of who have carried out performative, media-driven audits of failed managers before sacking them? It's a farce.

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This is just buying some time/leeway, they are going to keep him until the end of the season irrespective of results. They are going to be under pressure to sack him after every game we don’t win now, which could be majority of the remaining games.

The Mitcher said:

Why do we need to delay it further with more shit like this? SJR watches the games every week and can see he's awful. Just get rid.

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OR, you let the paid footballing people make the evaluation not a petro chemical billionaire.

hobbers said:

Competent owners would just recognise that the manager is currently one of a number of problems and look to fix the problem. I dont need an audit to know Ten Hag isn't a good enough coach or manager for this club and nor does anyone else.

How many well run football clubs can you think of who have carried out performative, media-driven audits of failed managers before sacking them? It's a farce.

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Manchester United are not a well run club though and this whole audit is to determine what and why is the problem because despite the shit show that is EtHs perceived management there is obviously other issues which go back further than him.

hobbers said:

Competent owners would just recognise that the manager is currently one of a number of problems and look to fix the problem. I dont need an audit to know Ten Hag isn't a good enough coach or manager for this club and nor does anyone else.

How many well run football clubs can you think of who have carried out performative, media-driven audits of failed managers before sacking them? It's a farce.

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Competent owners stay out of football affairs and delegate that expertise to technical directors, DOF etc who have a better understanding of football operations than they do. This is what everyone wanted from the glazers and now suddenly no one is willing to wait for that process to take place under INEOS.

bosnian_red said:

So I mean this is as good as saying he's got one month to turn things around otherwise he's gone, which effectively means we're looking for his replacement. There's no chance he stays anyway

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Sarni said:

We have some easy games coming up and nobody expects us to beat City in the final. He’s staying.

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The way I read it is he's on trial now that Wilcox is in - not to pick up results, because Wilcox is doing a post mortem on the season from now, looking at the relationships with the dressing room, probably with medical staff, looking at his methods etc.

A ton of conclusions will be drawn from that, and they may well decide its best to part ways. Outside chance I guess that they see a wider problem and he's not the root cause.