No, the red wasn't wrong. But I never thought he needed a long ban or that he did it on purpose or anything.
£35m for Andy Carroll | On loan @ WHU (the big, long, useless streak of pi**...)
- Thread starter CnutOfAllCnuts
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Give us all a fecking break. If youre running full tilt one on one and someone gives you a nudge you can easily carry on if youre going to score. vidic barely touches him and is in no way responsible for him launching about six yards and becoming airborne. He went for the keeper, full stop. Do you honestly think he wasnt instructed to before the game? 
not to mention he had just stamped on rooney and left an elbow in every tackle.
Right up there with the mcmanaman, aguero tackles. Its goin to take an appalling injury for intervention to this kind of thing it seems. Doesnt help that media gives some awful imbeciles a voice, defending the indefensible.
If in doubt, find a friend of similar size, shape to jump for a cross and get him to push you full force as hard as he can. Even at that, you wont get what happened to carroll. sky have a lot to answer for, recklessly implanting ridiculous ideas in peoples heads who are unwilling to think for themselves.
not to mention he had just stamped on rooney and left an elbow in every tackle. Right up there with the mcmanaman, aguero tackles. Its goin to take an appalling injury for intervention to this kind of thing it seems. Doesnt help that media gives some awful imbeciles a voice, defending the indefensible.
If in doubt, find a friend of similar size, shape to jump for a cross and get him to push you full force as hard as he can. Even at that, you wont get what happened to carroll. sky have a lot to answer for, recklessly implanting ridiculous ideas in peoples heads who are unwilling to think for themselves.
So why was that 'excessive force' (even though Shawcross was actually not challenging Ramsey, but was clearing the ball up field), but this is only reckless?
Did de Gea need to break his neck for Carroll to get punished?
No defense of that challenge from Carroll for me. He got a slight nudge from Vidic, but no where near with enough force to send him careering into De Gea in the way that he did. He doesn't even try to use his hands to brace himself... he knew exactly what he was doing with that jump. Dangerous and reckless... a proper cowards challenge.
Sorry but I'm going to have to drop out. I have a ton of stuff to do tonight and I don't want to get drawn into a long conversation. I like you drainy but we'll have to agree to disagree.
Ok, agree to disagree
This whole thing with Carroll sometimes makes me think that there is some sick, dark scheme at hand to turn the whole English footballing population into complete fecking morons. It's just so ridiculous. I keep trying to wrap my head round the idiocy of the situation only to be left completely baffled so as to assume that it must be intentional.
The Telegraph
Talisman of England.. fecking hell
A team of Andy Carrolls and Scott Parkers would walk the World Cup with their pure English bravery, hard work and put-yourself-about-ness.The Telegraph
Talisman of England.. fecking hell
Seriously? He wouldn't stand a chance of making Norway's squad and we're not exactly blessed with decent strikes. You guys are seriously fecked!
Extremely lucky not to be sent off twice today. He's a football joke. Nothing less, more or else.
Extremely lucky not to be sent off twice today. He's a football joke. Nothing less, more or else.
That ladies and gents is exactly why England will never win feck all or atleast not until they have a massive overhaul in football philosophy.
Only in England would people rate a striker that roughs people up and generally just runs around using his retard strength as his only real skill. The camera panned to Hodgson on his perch and you could tell from his face he was nursing a semi at the thought of Carroll up front for England again.
MOTM last night supposedly, Charlie Adam was Stoke's MOTM the previous game.........sometimes I think football is a fantastic comedy.
Only in England would people rate a striker that roughs people up and generally just runs around using his retard strength as his only real skill. The camera panned to Hodgson on his perch and you could tell from his face he was nursing a semi at the thought of Carroll up front for England again.
MOTM last night supposedly, Charlie Adam was Stoke's MOTM the previous game.........sometimes I think football is a fantastic comedy.
Anyone want to bet Stoke will be after him in the summer? He would fit in perfectly there.
How can he be so widely praised after last night's performance? He basically ran around and fouled people all over the pitch, acted like a twat and should have been sent off. It's embarassing that this is the kind of attacking performance which gets him back in contention for the England squad. What a joke!
He didn't do anything last night, that Kevin Davies didn't do against us time and again ?
He wasn't called England's talisman ?
He wasn't called England's talisman ?
He epitomises everything that is wrong with English football.
Lauded for disgusting performances like last night and yet people scratch their heads wondering why England can't cut it with Spain, Germany, Italy etc.
Lauded for disgusting performances like last night and yet people scratch their heads wondering why England can't cut it with Spain, Germany, Italy etc.
Its strange because since Spain's dominance, a lot of people are saying we should change our philosophy but if you look at every paper today.. Theyre hyping up Carroll's shit performance.
His highlight reel was just him giving the ball away, Brooking was stuttering when trying to answer what it was he actually did in the game when he was awarded MOTM.
His highlight reel was just him giving the ball away, Brooking was stuttering when trying to answer what it was he actually did in the game when he was awarded MOTM.
But he ran around and elbowed people. That the point of this football thing isn't it.
It's funny also because Wayne Rooney, even when he first broke through at Everton, got a lot of extra praise because he would track back and tackle with aggression, it almost seemed like some people liked that more than his attacking play, something he is actually skilled at. You'd hear stuff like "And that's why Wayne Rooney is so good, there he is throwing himself into a tackle by the halfway line". It's as if a player can't be complimented in English football unless he's also suitably Lionhearted in his approach to headers and tackles.
This thing about the english culture seems like a cliché to repeat over and over again but at the same time it is so true.You can see how things like tackles are praised and viewed over and over again during replays whereas great skill, control or pass get less attention.
What's wrong in tracking back and tackling well getting praise ?
SAF has praised Scholes for adding bite to our play many a times. Zidane called him the most complete player iirc because he could snipe at people's heels and also be as good as anyone on the ball.
Just because Spain play one way with a really really good set of players, and have been successful doesn't mean everyone has too. Holland reached the finals of last world cup and nearly won it with 2 hard tacklers in midfield and that group of players was less talented than Spain or Germany or many other teams.
I'm saying it's not the standout feature of Rooney's game but sometimes people make out that's why he's a great player. People in England overstate the importance of forward players tackling and running around a lot. It's why Berbatov is sometimes called lazy despite covering as much ground as the next striker.
I should have just quoted kouroux and This'ed it. What he said basically.
Yeah I remember during the Norwich game Carrick and Kagawa did a couple of neat turns and RvP some flicks and no mention or replay, yet down the other end Snodgrass is flinging himself into rash challenges and they get 3-4 replays
Skill on the ball is almost unrecognised.
Here in England effort alone can make you 'world class'
I cannot think of one other European league where the shit on a stick football served up by Andy Carroll last night would be considered worthy of MOTM and column inches filled with praise.
I don't care if people disagree but It's a backwards mentality that's holding the national team back and it's no surprised United fans are exasperated with England at times because time and time again we watch players like Carrick and Scholes be undervalued at international level in favour of Parker and Milner types. Then our players that do make it have to fit into the hit and hope mentality that comes from having forwards like Carroll on the pitch flinging themselves around and doing little else.
It'll be a safe bet that Roy will recall him next month after these widely recognised 'brilliant' displays of late.
Mohamed Diame was a lot more impressive and dangerous than Andy Carroll.I have nothing against big players because they have their use under certain circumstances but I feel like with Carroll, pundits feel compelled to praise him.
How the feck was that not a red card? He was never anywhere near the ball!
It's straight from Fifa's Laws of the Game.
The other relevant passage is probably this one
Carroll's "challenge" certainly qualifies as reckless yellow. Is it a red? Whilst it is in danger of causing injury that alone does not make it a red, it has to also far exceed the necessary use of force. Given how far away he is from the ball (even if De Gea had missed the punch) and the velocity with which he strikes him I would argue he far exceeds the necessary force. Others may have a different intuition.
Essentially: Definite yellow. Justifiable red. Not a challenge to be laughed off.
Carroll had a 66% pass completion rate the joint lowest in West Ham's starting line up. He had 3 shots all of them off target. He didn't make any successful tackles, but made 3 interceptions. He only won 10 of the 21 ariel duels he was involved in. He did however win man of the match from Sky and praise from the english media at large.
[Data from the Stats Zone app]
[Data from the Stats Zone app]
I think more than the style of play the praise for Carroll is due to the hype and big money move he has had. Having hyped him up as the next shearer or whatever they feel compelled to praise him for a half decent display putting himself about.
If it was about Style Kevin Davies or Bobby Zamora would have been hailed like that too.
It was more or less a similar case with Torres for example who's not even British, when he was producing shit displays commentators used to be willing him on to do more and ***ping when he produced one decent bit of play. Even Chelsea fans began to get irrritated with that after a while. That only gets magnified for hyped up, British talent and even more magnified for Young players transferred for big money while some others get ignored.
Edit - See the likes of Darren Bent, Andy Johnson also.
I was a bit surprised that Gary Neville joined in the sort of laughing 'what was that' analysis of the Carroll 'challenge' on De Gea last night. I think there's no question it should have been a yellow card and there is certainly an argument for a red. I'm actually pretty certain that the reason Carroll was booked after one of his most feeble fouls of the night just after half time was because the ref had seen a replay of the foul on De Gea.
That aside though, I don't really have a problem with players being physical in the way Carroll was last night, we just have to cope with it and apart from the first goal (which was more about stopping the cross rather than denying Carroll the header), we did that pretty well. I wouldn't want United to be endlessly moaning about the style of football the opposition adopt. We should leave that to Arsenal.
Also those pundits wetting themselves at the prospect of Carroll leading the line for England are missing the point. In an international fixture, he would have been sent off.
That aside though, I don't really have a problem with players being physical in the way Carroll was last night, we just have to cope with it and apart from the first goal (which was more about stopping the cross rather than denying Carroll the header), we did that pretty well. I wouldn't want United to be endlessly moaning about the style of football the opposition adopt. We should leave that to Arsenal.
Also those pundits wetting themselves at the prospect of Carroll leading the line for England are missing the point. In an international fixture, he would have been sent off.
Vidic normally just takes everything on the chin and deals with it, but even he was infuriated by Carroll's antics yesterday
Put it this way. If that's not DDG standing there, but actually a brick wall... does Carroll hit it in the same way he hit DDG? Does he feck...He'd have approached with much less force for a start, his hands would be out to break the impact.
Just wow.
I honestly can't see what Carroll is trying to achieve there. There's really not much benefit to him flying face first into De Gea and potentially hurting himself in the process. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt for that and that alone - there's just no motive for that kamikaze assault, other than him having nothing to lose because he's such an ugly bastard anyway. Vidic's nudge doesn't help though
I seem to remember him making a very good last ditch defensive tackle late in the second half last night. Am I remembering that wrong or are those stats just wrong?
I presume that's listed as an interception, as he sort of 'tackled' the ball away before it reached Chich.
Well from the looks of it, it's his chest thats flying into De Gea... but even if it was his head... it's a bit like a headbutt isn't it, if you're putting the force in, it hurts you less. But like I said, it wasn't his head that was going to make contact... and I know I keep banging a drum, but if he wasn't trying to inflict some damage, his hands would be doing a lot more to brace the impact then they are there.
Vidic's nudge is really slight as well... there's no why he's pushed him with enough force to send him motoring into De Gea like that. Also, any shove from Vidic shouldn't effect Carroll's hands!
That goes to show what a massive pile of wank looking at the statistics is then. If that isnt counted as a tackle then what use is it looking at the stats for tackles? How many other tackles didnt count as tackles?
Amen, sister.
He's mid table at best but I do think the criticism is over the top at times. He was a pain in the arse for our defenders to deal with which is what he is there for.
It's not a tackle though. A tackle is a challenge that attempts to dispossess a player. Therefore, for it to be considered a tackle, there must be a player in possession of the ball, which there wasn't.
Regardless, he was given MOTM before that interception. So it matters not.
Regardless, he was given MOTM before that interception. So it matters not.