63% of Liverpool squad "asthmatic" - any substance to this article?

Sandikan

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There’s a big difference between you and your pals running and playing at the elite level of a literal billion pound sport. It’s not just the fact these older players are running around. It’s the fact that they run AND play well against the best teams in Europe, week in week out.
There is no guaranteed drop off age in sport though. Milner has always been super fit, and it'll be like with Giggs his lifestyle has had him carrying on longer.

It's always levelled against the best team by bitter other fans. Leicester, City, Liverpool. When really it's just that they're actually well coached and at the top of their game.

Do you think United are all on it out of interest? Want their money back if they are!!

ps don't sneer at a 15.46 5k from a 46 year old by the way. That'll be right up there in the country for his age range.
 

arnie_ni

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Not riddled no, not like cycling.
There's probably a lot of grey area stuff going on, but I'm sure if any widespread doping was going on we'd have heard a lot more noise.

For goodness sake we hear about little rows in dressing rooms. There's always loads of aggrieved parties in football so there's loads who could whistle blow.
This is the only thing stopping me from jumping fully on board. The amount of people that would be involved across all the teams and all the leagues for it not become public leads me to believe it'd be small scale and done privately by individual players, rather than widespread team ordered/sanctioned
 

cyberman

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Liverpool have looked leggy for a good two season now, this myth should be busted imo.
 

yumtum

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Not riddled no, not like cycling.
There's probably a lot of grey area stuff going on, but I'm sure if any widespread doping was going on we'd have heard a lot more noise.

For goodness sake we hear about little rows in dressing rooms. There's always loads of aggrieved parties in football so there's loads who could whistle blow.
Football is a way bigger cash cow than cycling, there's a whole bunch of people who want to keep said cow producing, literally everyone in football stands to lose if anything gets out, its why nothing really come of that scandal in Spain where the judge ordered all the blood samples to be destroyed.
 

Sandikan

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This is the only thing stopping me from jumping fully on board. The amount of people that would be involved across all the teams and all the leagues for it not become public leads me to believe it'd be small scale and done privately by individual players, rather than widespread team ordered/sanctioned
The authorities are either wilfully ignoring it, the testing isn't efficient enough, or the players are going to Lance Armstrong type levels to hide it

Or, of course, you know, it might not actually be happening. Not illegal stuff anyway, grey area "recovery" stuff, injections and all this stuff for sure though.
 

KeanoMagicHat

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There is no guaranteed drop off age in sport though. Milner has always been super fit, and it'll be like with Giggs his lifestyle has had him carrying on longer.

It's always levelled against the best team by bitter other fans. Leicester, City, Liverpool. When really it's just that they're actually well coached and at the top of their game.

Do you think United are all on it out of interest? Want their money back if they are!!

ps don't sneer at a 15.46 5k from a 46 year old by the way. That'll be right up there in the country for his age range.
It wouldn't actually be that big of a surprise if all the top clubs were at it except United, not from an ethical stand point but just pure obliviousness and incompetence at being able to keep up with trends.
 

Sandikan

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It wouldn't actually be that big of a surprise if all the top clubs were at it except United, not from an ethical stand point but just pure obliviousness and incompetence at being able to keep up with trends.
So we then consider, are the players unwitting in this, just getting pumped by their medical teams?
Or do they know what's going on?

If it's the latter it's impossible to believe talk about their "programme" wouldn't have got back to United players etc to pass back on to the club.
 
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There is no guaranteed drop off age in sport though. Milner has always been super fit, and it'll be like with Giggs his lifestyle has had him carrying on longer.

It's always levelled against the best team by bitter other fans. Leicester, City, Liverpool. When really it's just that they're actually well coached and at the top of their game.

Do you think United are all on it out of interest? Want their money back if they are!!

ps don't sneer at a 15.46 5k from a 46 year old by the way. That'll be right up there in the country for his age range.
Feck me that's a fast 5k (for age)!
 

kouroux

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If sports with a loss money involved for all actors have been full of doping scandals, what makes people think football at the highest level is squeaky clean ?
There is doping in fencing. PEDs come in all colors and they're not just about being stronger/shredded but there is an entire category of them dedicated from recovery
 

DatIrishFella

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Ok but is there any truth to 25/33 squad members being ashmatic?

And if so, would their medication improve their cardiovascular endurance?
 
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Ok but is there any truth to 25/33 squad members being ashmatic?

And if so, would their medication improve their cardiovascular endurance?
I could be wrong but is the suggestion that they’re NOT actually asthmatic but getting the medication (which might improve their breathing/air intake and as a consequence, their ability to keep running at pace for longer)?
 

crossy1686

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Ok but is there any truth to 25/33 squad members being ashmatic?

And if so, would their medication improve their cardiovascular endurance?
Well yes, that's why they're all 'asthmatic'. There's a list as long as your arm for lung capacity increasing medication that is banned at elite level, unless of course you have a doctors note for asthma.
 

crossy1686

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I could be wrong but is the suggestion that they’re NOT actually asthmatic but getting the medication (which might improve their breathing/air intake and as a consequence, their ability to keep running at pace for longer)?
It improves lung capacity and the bodies ability to get the oxygen to muscles faster. It might be a few % increase on performance but at this level it's fine margins.
 

devips

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We are so behind the times. When pressing became the style for Liverpool, we went for "individual brilliance." When Liverpool forwards ran about on the pitch like there's no tomorrow, we had zombies posing as strikers.

Now they are allegedly into drugs, we are drinking Red Bull!
 

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It improves lung capacity and the bodies ability to get the oxygen to muscles faster. It might be a few % increase on performance but at this level it's fine margins.
But at this level isn't it sometimes all about fine margins?? Therefore if there's a legal way to get your players to get more oxygen to their muscles faster, shouldn't we be doing it too?
 

Bluelion7

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Again though, I’d be interested if the asthma diagnosis thing was true. People are picturing massive developmental advantages like steroids, but that’s not what this would be. Paying for asthma diagnoses’ would imply broad use of bronchodilators to me. If that’s the case I truly doubt LFC is the only one, and the immediate question it would raise is: is there a connection with the number of heart issues we’ve seen at top levels?
 
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crossy1686

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But at this level isn't it sometimes all about fine margins?? Therefore if there's a legal way to get your players to get more oxygen to their muscles faster, shouldn't we be doing it too?
That's why I said it's fine margins, it makes a difference at this level. Well yeah, we could, we could get a head coach and a doctor that insists all our players have breathing difficulties and sign off on the medication. I'd honestly be surprised if most clubs aren't pepped up on something, Liverpool are just stupid enough to have everyone on it, which get's you caught.
 

arnie_ni

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But at this level isn't it sometimes all about fine margins?? Therefore if there's a legal way to get your players to get more oxygen to their muscles faster, shouldn't we be doing it too?
Except it wouldn't be legal. They aren't actually asthmatic, it's faked, allegedly
 
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It’s fast for any age, I’m miles off it!
Ive still not done a 5k in twice it (though older and not been running long).

Original point by Sandikan was to poster saying people jogging round a park is totally different to pro sportsmen. It is for a lot of casual runners but doubt many footballers run 5k that quick.

off topic now, let’s all go back to accusing LFC of being drug users (allegedly)
 

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That's why I said it's fine margins, it makes a difference at this level. Well yeah, we could, we could get a head coach and a doctor that insists all our players have breathing difficulties and sign off on the medication. I'd honestly be surprised if most clubs aren't pepped up on something, Liverpool are just stupid enough to have everyone on it, which get's you caught.
Except it wouldn't be legal. They aren't actually asthmatic, it's faked, allegedly
But if we all agree it's illegal, the question then is how and why are they getting away with it?

Slightly confused that's all folks
 

Hansi Fick

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Ok... but 10 pages in, are we any closer to answering the question posed in the thread title?

Because maybe that should take priority before making numerous posts about some completely random baseless claim.
 

11101

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There is no guaranteed drop off age in sport though. Milner has always been super fit, and it'll be like with Giggs his lifestyle has had him carrying on longer.

It's always levelled against the best team by bitter other fans. Leicester, City, Liverpool. When really it's just that they're actually well coached and at the top of their game.

Do you think United are all on it out of interest? Want their money back if they are!!

ps don't sneer at a 15.46 5k from a 46 year old by the way. That'll be right up there in the country for his age range.
Constant pace running is a different thing though. That's not what goes with age, nor does top end speed until much later on, its acceleration and agility that drops off when players hit 30. Muscles tire quicker and lose their explosiveness.

Giggs and other players who go deep into their 30s always adapt their games to run and move less. Milner is still getting up and down like a 20 year old.
 

crossy1686

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But if we all agree it's illegal, the question then is how and why are they getting away with it?

Slightly confused that's all folks
Because a certified medical doctor, who is always presumed to be working within the best health interests of their patients, has said they all need the treatment to compete at this level. That isn't illegal, it's bending the rules and a can of worms the FA do not want to open.
 

Dansk

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Ok... but 10 pages in, are we any closer to answering the question posed in the thread title?

Because maybe that should take priority before making numerous posts about some completely random baseless claim.
While I haven't exactly looked at their squad's medical records, it has been reported numerous times that when Klopp arrived, suddenly a slew of Liverpool's players were diagnosed with asthma and prescribed medication for it. If I recall, Dortmund also had a wildly unrealistic number of players diagnosed with and medicated for asthma. It's just a trick he uses, and nobody is doing anything about it. There are many different kinds of medication that are banned when used as performance enhancers but allowed if prescribed for a documented condition. It's just that they obviously don't have asthma.

When you don't actually have the condition, the medicine is definitely a performance-enhancing drug. What shouldn't be allowed is falsely diagnosing players with a condition that they don't have in order to permit a performance-enhancing drug, but nobody is investigating and enforcing this. If you can get a doctor to vouch for it, you can take the drug. Simple as that. Same way Messi was allowed to take human growth hormone in his youth because of his growth hormone disorder, which is a banned substance unless it's a prescribed treatment (which, in his case, was legit).

I have no idea what proportion of players at other clubs have asthma. I recall that Paul Scholes was notably asthmatic, and it was reported as unusual that a top player had a respiratory condition. I'm guessing it's not normal for 63% of any club's players to be (supposedly) asthmatic. Are Liverpool cheating? Well, not in the sense of breaking any clear-cut rules. If you're diagnosed with a condition and prescribed medicine for it, you're allowed to take it and play football. False diagnosis is just one of those grey areas. Is it dishonest and unsportsmanlike? Of course. But it is self-evidently allowed.

It's just that when you take medicine for a condition that you don't have, you're at risk of adverse effects. Some theorized that this is what led Klopp's Dortmund team to collapse abruptly, and him to depart. Asthma medicine is meant to bring a person with, say, 80% lung capacity back up near 100%. When used by a person with 100% lung capacity by default, the performances that can be achieved with this medication can have consequences in the long term. One might point out that Liverpool's players aren't really known for their longevity. They have a wildly unusual lack of older players.
 
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Kellyiom

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That's why I said it's fine margins, it makes a difference at this level. Well yeah, we could, we could get a head coach and a doctor that insists all our players have breathing difficulties and sign off on the medication. I'd honestly be surprised if most clubs aren't pepped up on something, Liverpool are just stupid enough to have everyone on it, which get's you caught.
There's a whole range of different medicines for different 'asthma' conditions which would be tailored to your individual circumstances, then I guess you'd have to seek club approval, always keep it loaded on the system (ADAMS?), but there's a lot that can be done to legitimately improve the cardiovascular system.

I don't know what tests footballers have prior to joining, whether they get their own VO2 max tests done themselves or how it goes but it's my understanding, so probably wrong, that that is decided genetically, it can't be improved, and I don't think a review of sudden deaths in cycling, even in the EPO days revealed any firm link.

I think avoiding negative lifestyle factors like alcohol cannot be understated for football. It is not like football where the strategy and tactics can overcome the engine.

But it would surely be naive imo anyway, that medicine will not at some point play a role at improving the fortunes of players, clubs and agents.

When you compare the money in cycling to football, well, the very top are earning a tiny %age of footballers.

Happy New year everyone BTW!
 
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Cheimoon

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It's just that when you take medicine for a condition that you don't have, you're at risk of adverse effects. Some theorized that this is what led Klopp's Dortmund team to collapse abruptly, and him to depart. Asthma medicine is meant to bring a person with, say, 80% lung capacity back up near 100%. When used by a person with 100% lung capacity by default, the performances that can be achieved with this medication can have consequences in the long term. One might point out that Liverpool's players aren't really known for their longevity. They have a wildly unusual lack of older players.
Except that collapse didn't happen as you describe it (implicitly). Performance levels didn't really go down, that had a string of statistically wildly unlikely negative results in the first half of the season, followed by a great second half. I don't see how that works with the theory that final Dortmund season of Klopp's finally saw the long-term effects of this asthma approach surfacing.
 

Dr. Dwayne

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It wouldn't actually be that big of a surprise if all the top clubs were at it except United, not from an ethical stand point but just pure obliviousness and incompetence at being able to keep up with trends.
I don't know about that. I seem to remember an article about Ole from the 90s that mentioned he had an allergy to grass. Now that I think about it, that's as good a reason as any to have a script for salbutamol.
 

MUFC OK

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Really wouldn’t be surprised if serveral of their players have a therapeutic use exemption for asthma. No smoke..
 

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One thing I can be absolutely confident of is that this won’t involve a single United player because if it did it they would have been front page news the following day.

EDIT - the top reply basically saying the same thing.
 

Deery

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Isn’t football the only sport at the Olympics that doesn’t drug test, says it’s because they have their own drug testing but more likely it’s because the whole lot are doping.
 

Wayne's World

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100% this Liverpool team are doping but it's a pure cover up job, something extremely unnatural with their levels of fitness and playing the same 11 every week without any injuries yet and playing more games then ever before