A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

cjj

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I wouldn't go over board about the result tonight. These results can always happen in the cup with weakened sides, just as i was saying last week when there was meltdown over the Astana game.
It isn't - it's just a league-two-shaped cherry on top of a cake iced with awful form, on a layer of not winning an away game for something like 9 months, with a bed of relegation form since the start of 2019.

The CL did well to gloss over that, but it is still what it is.
 

charlenefan

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He's doing a Jose. With the Eriksen drama and not getting Dybala I think he's had enough. Would still give him a shot at United. Just to see. You know? To really see. What can he actually do at a big club with lots of money and pulling power. Every team he manages improves significantly and I would imagine some players wanna play under him. I'd actually go for it if he became available. Feck what the press think
Except it's quite a while since that's been true. The fluky UCL final papered over what had been two very meh back to back PL campaigns.
 
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Alas I think you're wrong. I did think this for a long while but the rough patch (league wise) has now extended for a large part of last season in to a good chunk of this one. In my opinion the team were able to motivate themselves for one big push in Europe, but simply are no longer motivated week in, week out in the way that a team who are desperate to impress their manager should be. Tonight was a good example of that, we're on a bad run and against lower league opposition, lots of players with points to prove but the performance was totally lacking in energy or purpose, a clear sign of a team who aside from a game like Arsenal away or a big European night, no longer have the fight in them.

Pochettino is a manager who demands a lot from his players. He gives them hell in pre-season and expects full throttle football all year round. I don't think this is a recipe for success with a squad which is ageing now and has many players who season after season go through the same rigorous pre-season yet have no trophies to show for it. I honestly believe a lot of players in this team are simply mentally exhausted and Pochettino's constant negativity in the press can hardly help in that respect.

Poch is at his best when he has fresh, young minds to mould to his style, players who will happily embrace his ideas and run through walls for him. The football we saw in the early years reflected that, but now we're seeing the pressing game slowly disintegrate and the creativity and dynamism in our football simply disappear and turn in to a slow, sideways approach which resembles the dark days of AVB. We perfectly resemble a team who still have talented individuals capable of moments like Kane conjured up last week, but one who has lost that 'spark'.

He will do well wherever he goes and if he gets more backing than he did here, will win trophies too. But with Pochettino long-term I think you'll need a decent amount of turnover to keep things fresh, whereas we're still running with basically the same squad we have since after his first season at the club.
So you don’t think he’ll turn it around? I don’t see levy sacking him especially as he’s only signed a 5yr deal not long ago.
 

balaks

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So you don’t think he’ll turn it around? I don’t see levy sacking him especially as he’s only signed a 5yr deal not long ago.
I think he is a gonner - half the team don't look interested anymore - looks like a beaten man in charge of a team that don't believe in him anymore. Only one way that ends.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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So you don’t think he’ll turn it around? I don’t see levy sacking him especially as he’s only signed a 5yr deal not long ago.
I just can't see him being sacked due to what he has done for the team and due to his contract.

Could walk, but I also don't see him missing out on the payout. Might see out the season which would be shite for us because we aren't getting top 4 if we keep Pochettino at the helm.
 

el3mel

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More likely that they fought for him, signed contracts for him, and then he started suggesting he'd leave if they won something etc.

Not the way to motivate your squad.

I'm surprised to see how much people ignore the strength of the squad he has, and the fact that 5 years of Harry Kane and some of the other talent he's had available, and he's still not actually won anything.

He struggled with the established players when he first joined, did well with relatively unknowns, and is now struggling to get the best out of established players again. Seems to me that he's not suited to managing higher-profile players, and if so, I can't see a 'bigger' team suiting him.
I had several doubts on him myself and you cna review my posts in this thread to see by yourself but in this I see it as just him and his players have reached the full saturation stage and it's time for a change. As another poster mentioned, Klopp after winning league titles with BVB and reached CL final, he fought for relegation for half of his last season there before managing to finish barely 7th.

Simply it happens. That's why I don't believe in long term management of +10 years anymore. Managers and players get bored at one time. Managers need new challenges, and they start falling with the board while players need new tactical setup to keep things fresh.

So the current situation imo doesn't have anything to do with him as a manager tactically wise. I think this relationship with Spurs and Levy have deteriorated beyond repair and the team stagnated. They both need to part company.
 

Scroto Baggins

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I just can't see him being sacked due to what he has done for the team and due to his contract.

Could walk, but I also don't see him missing out on the payout. Might see out the season which would be shite for us because we aren't getting top 4 if we keep Pochettino at the helm.
Who would you get as a replacement? Jose?
 

Irwin99

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Might be best if he parted ways with them. Apart from their fullbacks I think the core of their team is very good but for whatever reason they're just not performing. It would be interesting to see who Spurs fans would want to replace him.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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Who would you get as a replacement? Jose?
God no. We're all bored enough.

ten Hag could be an option. I've heard even Ajax fans question him but the football his sides play is excellent, and I don't think we're winning trophies any time soon so ... let's at least enjoy watching the team play? Howe would be a bit of a 'meh' choice, but again the football would be fun.

I don't know much about the Bundesliga but Germany seems to be produce a good bunch of managers so maybe we could look there.
 

ReddBalls

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Harry Kane has had a bigger impact at Spurs than Poch. Their "rise" har coincided with having a goalscorer capable of 30 goals each season. They haven't had that since Lineker, and he only did it for one season.
 

Jimmy_Bond

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Some spectacular rewriting of history in this thread.

He's done a phenomenal job at Spurs, I'd love it if he ended up here.
 

Dec9003

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He's already trying his best to make United look good. ;)
 
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Harry Kane has had a bigger impact at Spurs than Poch. Their "rise" har coincided with having a goalscorer capable of 30 goals each season. They haven't had that since Lineker, and he only did it for one season.
But who developed him? Pochs coaching has definitely helped him.
 

ReddBalls

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But who developed him? Pochs coaching has definitely helped him.
He obviously helped, but Kane hit the ground running for Pochettino scoring 31 goals in his first season after returning from four years of loan spells. It was at those clubs he was developed.
 

ReddBalls

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And another thing about Kane. He seems like a driven person, and has the talent and character to succeed at just about any club regardless of manager.
 

Guy Incognito

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I wouldn't go over board about the result tonight. These results can always happen in the cup with weakened sides, just as i was saying last week when there was meltdown over the Astana game.
The problem is even if they finish fourth in the league (which is quite conceivable) where do Spurs go next? Where is the evolution going to come from?

He's done the best he can with the crop of players at his disposal but he needs to freshen up the squad. Parrott could be the next Kane and be thrust into the first XI but is that enough?
 

ivaldo

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The excuses really are being rolled out for Poch now. Look at the players at his disposal and ask yourself: is achieving top 4 and winning nothing really such a wonderful achievement, or is it about par?
 

Ban

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The excuses really are being rolled out for Poch now. Look at the players at his disposal and ask yourself: is achieving top 4 and winning nothing really such a wonderful achievement, or is it about par?
Amazing isn't it?
 

Micky Targaryen

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Harry Kane has had a bigger impact at Spurs than Poch. Their "rise" har coincided with having a goalscorer capable of 30 goals each season. They haven't had that since Lineker, and he only did it for one season.
I don't get posts like this. Kane developed into a top striker, and it was just a "coincidence" that Poch was manager during the reign and that it was the other smaller clubs that were responsible for his development. But if Kane fails, it's Poch's fault for ruining him? :houllier:
 

Andycoleno9

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The excuses really are being rolled out for Poch now. Look at the players at his disposal and ask yourself: is achieving top 4 and winning nothing really such a wonderful achievement, or is it about par?
He took over a team which was not anywhere near top 4 and all that in era where 5 clubs were above Spurs in every area; squad strength and finances. He did very good job there. Built a team and was in top 4. He should and could have won few cups more and maybe win title in that season when Leicester won PL. But in general he put Spurs back on the map, he is excellent coach and yes, despite how this sounds harsh and as complete lack of faith in our manager but i would take him this second. He is class manager and imo, best solution for our club.
 
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Seaman

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Last 26 games 8 wins, 6 draws and 12 losses. Last night count as a draw. I think he has taken them as far as he can.
 

ivaldo

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He took over a team which was not anywhere near top 4 and all that in era where 5 clubs were above Spurs in every area; squad strength and finances. He did very good job there. Built a team and was in top 4. He should and could win few cups more and maybe win title in that season when Leicester won PL. But in general he put Spurs bsck on the map, he is excellent coach and yes, despite how this sounds harsh and as complete lack of faith in our managerbut i would take him this second. He is class manager and imo, best solution for our club.
So he did this all on his own did he? He readily admits his control over transfers were limited. Look at that squad of players and tell me he's overachieved with them.
 

Andycoleno9

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So he did this all on his own did he? He readily admits his control over transfers were limited. Look at that squad of players and tell me he's overachieved with them.
Of course not. Even best of the best like Fergie or Guardiola or Mourinho didn't do what they did in their careers on their own. We can say that for every manager. But do you agree that Spurs were 6th club in England when he took over? Did you consider them rivals for anything?
I don't get what you want to say. During his reign they had best patch in history of PL( so in last 30 years).
 

R'hllor

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Dont care much about all getting Poch thing but its funny how people shit on him (guess they think, thats how they fight OGS corner) and on people who want him. If Ole gets sacked tomorrow and they get Poch in, that same bunch will flip and disregard all the shitting they did and giving examples to prove their point in the past.
 

GM K

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So he did this all on his own did he? He readily admits his control over transfers were limited. Look at that squad of players and tell me he's overachieved with them.
I have always had my doubts about Poch managing United but we have to give him credit for the work he has done at Spurs. Highly remarkable.
 

roonster09

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Dont care much about all getting Poch thing but its funny how people shit on him (guess they think, thats how they fight OGS corner) and on people who want him. If Ole gets sacked tomorrow and they get Poch in, that same bunch will flip and disregard all the shitting they did and giving examples to prove their point in the past.
Its the case all the time. When Jose was the manager, Jose fans shat on Poch and his achievements, once he was sacked they all suddenly realized how good Poch is/was.

He is very good manager though, if Ole is sacked, want him as next manager. Choice between him and couple of other managers.
 

ivaldo

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Of course not. Even best of the best like Fergie or Guardiola or Mourinho didn't do what they did in their careers on their own. We can say that for every manager. But do you agree that Spurs were 6th club in England when he took over? Did you consider them rivals for anything?
I don't get what you want to say. During his reign they had best patch in history of PL( so in last 30 years).
But they utilized that support to take full advantage of it. Can you say Poch has done that?

It's not a trick question. He has a very talented group of players at his disposal and has won nothing with them and consolidated top 4. With that squad, do you think it's a great achievement? Is he getting more out of these players than most other managers are capable of doing?

If he moves to a bigger club with loftier expectations than Spurs, he won't be judged on building a great squad, with considerable help by a very prudent DoF, but he'll be judged on what he actually does with those players.
 

GM K

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I think people are missing the reality of modern football. Players, fans, managers, pundits, agents and club owners are a whole lot more impatient these days than they were a few years ago. I am guessing the average life span of a manager in a club these days is about 3 years. Poch's time is up at Spurs and that likely has more to do with the realities of modern football than any other thing.
 

ivaldo

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I have always had my doubts about Poch managing United but we have to give him credit for the work he has done at Spurs. Highly remarkable.
I'll ask you the same question. With the players he has at his disposal, is consolidating top 4 and picking up no silverware some great achievement, or is it about par on what you expect those players go achieve? The quality of the squad has improved significantly, and Poch of course has had some input into that, but ultimately, Spurs proficiency in the transfer market is largely down to Levy.
 

Wednesday at Stoke

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I'll ask you the same question. With the players he has at his disposal, is consolidating top 4 and picking up no silverware some great achievement, or is it about par on what you expect those players go achieve? The quality of the squad has improved significantly, and Poch of course has had some input into that, but ultimately, Spurs proficiency in the transfer market is largely down to Levy.
You have to take into account he's in the same competition as City and Liverpool, who have both been at a level not seen before in the premier league in terms of consistency. There was a chance Spurs could have been in that conversation but Levy kneecapped them by not releasing funds for transfers at crucial junctures.
 

roonster09

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Was checking twitter, few very poor records for Poch this year, like most losses by any team and the one with only 8 wins in last 26 games. Also IIRC no away win in PL since Jan.