A Uefa Conference league title or a League cup?

[Lentwood]

Europa League & Conference League are difficult to take seriously because you can be 'too good' to qualify and that devalues it for me.

It's still great for the fans though to win any trophy.

 

[Paranoid Android]

I think it depends on the club. For us, competing in the UEFA Conference League means we got a shite league position for our standards, so it's kind of joining a competition of also-rans. Same can't be said about the League Cup.

 

[Fr. Todd Unctious]

There are going to be some interesting excuses here now, trying to rationalise why West Ham did not have a better season than United, by the trophy logic

As far as cup competitions go, Conference League is a European Cup. More games to play and that makes it harder to win. That beats the League Cup any day Im afraid.

West Ham with a better season than United, if you want to measure season success with cup wins.

Sweet Jesus


Top 3 Finish, Cup Final Appearance, QF of Europa League and winning the league cup but yes West Ham finishing * checks notes * 14th six points off relegation (benefitting from feck ups from us and Arsenal against them in the run in ) and winning the Europa Confernce had a better season than us.

 

[Bubz27]

ECL for me but I can see how it's the opposite for clubs with more European honours

Is this serious? You'd only be in it because you are shite relatively to where Arsenal want to be.

I genuinely find it hard to celebrate the Europa League win under Jose because I knew we were only in it because we weren't good enough for the CL. I mean I did enjoy it and it was fun but it's not something I'll remember forever like the CL wins.

 

[The Firestarter]

There are going to be some interesting excuses here now, trying to rationalise why West Ham did not have a better season than United, by the trophy logic

As far as cup competitions go, Conference League is a European Cup. More games to play and that makes it harder to win. That beats the League Cup any day Im afraid.

West Ham with a better season than United, if you want to measure season success with cup wins.

Absolutely shambolic post.

 

[massi83]

FA cup and ECL would be a debate, and I would probably pick ECL. ECL by a country mile against coca-cola cup.

 

[Idxomer]

Of course we had a better season ffs

Redcafe has reached peak stupidity with this argument between WHU's season and ours.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Sorry but what is the Europa Conference ? As in I know it exists and is the competition even below the Europa Legaue but who qualifies for it? How bad does one have to be to enter it?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

FA cup and ECL would be a debate, and I would probably pick ECL. ECL by a country mile against coca-cola cup.

Come on, that’s not really a debate is it?

 

[massi83]

Come on, that’s not really a debate is it?

On this forum it doesn't seem to be. Europe wide it probably would be.

 

[Redfrog]

There are going to be some interesting excuses here now, trying to rationalise why West Ham did not have a better season than United, by the trophy logic

As far as cup competitions go, Conference League is a European Cup. More games to play and that makes it harder to win. That beats the League Cup any day Im afraid.

West Ham with a better season than United, if you want to measure season success with cup wins.

Great season for Moyses boys. Winning a cup we would never sign to be in and finishing low in the table.
Sure, that beats finishing third and winning the cup every PL’s clubs are in.

 

[Siorac]

Well, you wouldn't want to be in the ECL, at least not as a big club. But at the same time, I wish we weren't in the League Cup either so... in the end, European trophy > domestic cup.

 

[Lee565]

League Cup has stronger teams so league, I mean we had to beat Newcastle in the final who are a champions league side

 

[amolbhatia50k]

On this forum it doesn't seem to be. Europe wide it probably would be.

As it shouldn’t. The third tier European trophy vs your counties biggest cup (that too FA cup which is more storied than that of other leagues) which isn’t limited to mid table teams? People have let the world Europe cause their brains to go wonky as if everything European is glittered in gold.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

Redcafe has reached peak stupidity with this argument between WHU's season and ours.

In terms of my post about it, I was trying to answer it from each clubs perspective rather than a 'which would you prefer United to achieve' perspective.

I still went with United having the better season either way. As expectations weren't high, so a top 4 finish and a domestic trophy win was great. And, obviously, that would always be much better for us than finishing 14th but winning the Conference League.

But I was trying to also look at it from the point of view of a team who rarely ever win trophies - is winning a European trophy, but poor league season, more memorable for them than a big club getting top 4 and winning a domestic cup?

I still went with us having the 'better' season, but definitely think West Ham have, by the end, had the more 'memorable' season for their clubs standards - in that, they'll live off their cup win longer than ours as it was so long since their last one and should be a hell of a lot longer before their next one compared to ours.

But, yeah, going back to looking at it solely from a United perspective then I wouldn't swap our season for any other PL club other than City, obviously. 3rd place, a trophy and another domestic final was better than anything any other PL team achieved (again, other than that lot).

 

[Robbie Boy]

Redcafe has reached peak stupidity with this argument between WHU's season and ours.

I'm assuming the thread is a wum, but if not, then just

 

[Robbie Boy]

Sorry but what is the Europa Conference ? As in I know it exists and is the competition even below the Europa Legaue but who qualifies for it? How bad does one have to be to enter it?

It was seen as farcical until Jose and Moyes won it. Now, some on here are pretending it's relevant

 

[mitchmouse]

Conference league is EUFA's answer to the Daf Van Trophy (it it's still called that). Fantastic for supporters who know they aren't going to get anything elsewhere, wonderful to win something but that's all.

That said, I still think the League Cup is a bit of Mickey Mouse affair: given a choice between that and top three, I'd take top three without a second's hesitation. We got both, so that has to be better than going to outer Peru for a game on a Thursday night!

 

[massi83]

It was seen as farcical until Jose and Moyes won it. Now, some on here are pretending it's relevant

Likewise for League Cup now that we won it. Whereas in reality nobody takes it seriously before quarters.

 

[pocco]

League cup if you beat decent teams along the way. Our league cup run vs Conference League? I'm probably slightly leaning towards the latter. It's a much bigger achievement for West Ham to win it than us win the league cup with the teams we had to face and all the home draws.

 

[Pyroblazer]

For a team like us it's obviously the league cup. It's a trophy we can compete with the best teams of the country every year and it's also harder to win.
If we play in the conference league we fecked up before for our standards and how is it even that much of an achievement if we would be by far the best team of the competition? I mean who wouldn't expect us to beat West Ham, Fiorentina, Basel and Alkmaar? It's a third tier competition made for teams like that, not for us. I even felt similiar about the EL title with Jose where we also only beat teams that we should beat comfortable and barely impressed, but that at least gives you CL entry. EL entry wouldn't be an achievement for us.

For West Ham it's different obviously. It's their first European trophy, they got EL entry, which is great for them. It's their level and they outclassed teams around their strength.
But even here you could make the argument that a cup trophy might have been a bigger achievement and surprise as they would have to beat some clearly stronger teams for the trophy and they would also get EL through it.
A european trophy is nice, but if you have to invent another competition to give teams like that a chance to win something it obviously devalues the trophy a little bit.

 

[SilentWitness]

It was seen as farcical until Jose and Moyes won it. Now, some on here are pretending it's relevant

It very much depends on the club you support. A league cup gets you into ECL, the ECL gets you into the EL. For a club like United that is historically used to competing/qualfying for the EL and CL, of course the ECL is a trophy that is going to be seen as second rate and doesn't matter as much.

For a club like us or West Ham it provides an opportunity to qualify for a better european competition and also a better fan experience.

 

[Robbie Boy]

It very much depends on the club you support. A league cup gets you into ECL, the ECL gets you into the EL. For a club like United that is historically used to competing/qualfying for the EL and CL, of course the ECL is a trophy that is going to be seen as second rate and doesn't matter as much.

For a club like us or West Ham it provides an opportunity to qualify for a better european competition and also a better fan experience.

I agree with that. But, United fans/Arsenal wums trying to claim it as West Ham having a better season than United is just wummy.

It was brilliant last year on here too when Roma won it. All the Jose fan boys were out in force claiming it to be some miracle.

Fair play to West Ham though. I hope they enjoy it.

 

[massi83]

Well, you wouldn't want to be in the ECL, at least not as a big club. But at the same time, I wish we weren't in the League Cup either so... in the end, European trophy > domestic cup.

Yup. 3 teams win a European trophy in a year. 50-80 teams win a domestic cup in a year. Can most even name a single other league cup winner from other countries?

 

[SilentWitness]

I agree with that. But, United fans/Arsenal wums trying to claim it as West Ham having a better season than United is just wummy.

Yeah, that's silly.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Likewise for League Cup now that we won it. Whereas in reality nobody takes it seriously before quarters.

I don't think anyone has ever made out that that the League Cup is meaningful...

However, we won our first trophy in years in ETH's first season, which is a good start. Fair play to West Ham for winning the ECL. But, claiming West Ham had a BETTER season is fecking hilarious.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

It was seen as farcical until Jose and Moyes won it. Now, some on here are pretending it's relevant

It is relevant - for the clubs who are very unlikely to win the CL or even the EL. Much less so to the top clubs, obviously. But that's the same about everything - a big club who find themselves relegated 'celebrating' winning promotion, or winning the EFL Trophy, might seem hollow. But for many clubs, that's a relevant and huge achievement. So, yeah, teams who aren't used to winning trophies, and especially European ones, will see this as very relevant even if teams who win plenty of bigger trophies won't.

Which is why it was brought in, to help clubs from smaller nations get European group stage football as more and more of those spots in the other two were made up of teams from the top leagues. And give more medium sized teams - other than the top CL / EL sides - a more realistic chance of a European trophy (but, yes, done by diluting the standard of teams competing in it!)

 

[kafta]

Question should be: whos had a better season, Arsenal or West Ham?

 

[Robbie Boy]

It is relevant - for the clubs who are very unlikely to win the CL or even the EL. Much less so to the top clubs, obviously. But that's the same about everything - a big club who find themselves relegated 'celebrating' winning promotion, or winning the EFL Trophy, might seem hollow. But for many clubs, that's a relevant and huge achievement. So, yeah, teams who aren't used to winning trophies, and especially European ones, will see this as very relevant even if teams who win plenty of bigger trophies won't.

Which is why it was brought in, to help clubs from smaller nations get European group stage football as more and more of those spots in the other two were made up of teams from the top leagues. And give more medium sized teams - other than the top CL / EL sides - a more realistic chance of a European trophy (but, yes, done by diluting the standard of teams competing in it!)

It's relevant to West Ham, yes, no to us. Claiming West Ham had a better season is the laughable part.

 

[Spaghetti]

There are going to be some interesting excuses here now, trying to rationalise why West Ham did not have a better season than United, by the trophy logic

As far as cup competitions go, Conference League is a European Cup. More games to play and that makes it harder to win. That beats the League Cup any day Im afraid.

West Ham with a better season than United, if you want to measure season success with cup wins.

They finished about 10 places lower in the league.

Finishing 2nd and 3rd gets the same reward.

 

[massi83]

I don't think anyone has ever made out that that the League Cup is meaningful...

However, we won our first trophy in years in ETH's first season, which is a good start. Fair play to West Ham for winning the ECL. But, claiming West Ham had a BETTER season is fecking hilarious.

Yes, I agree with the second paragraph. I haven't suggested that.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Yes, I agree with the second paragraph. I haven't suggested that.

You quoted me, no? I never said you did. Others have, though. That's what's laughable. As I said, fair play to West Ham.

 

[Idxomer]

In terms of my post about it, I was trying to answer it from each clubs perspective rather than a 'which would you prefer United to achieve' perspective.

I still went with United having the better season. As expectations weren't high, so a top 4 finish and a domestic trophy win was great. And, obviously, that would be much better for us than finishing 14th but winning the Conference League.

But I was trying to look at it from the point of view of a team who rarely ever win trophies - is winning a European trophy, but poor league season, more memorable for them than a big club getting top 4 and winning a domestic cup?

I still went with us having the 'better' season, but definitely think West Ham have, by the end, had the more 'memorable' season - in that, they'll live off their cup win longer than ours as it should be a hell of a lot longer before their next one compared to ours.

But, yeah, going back to looking at it from a United perspective then I wouldn't swap our season for any other PL club other than City, obviously. 3rd place, a trophy and another domestic final was better than anything any other PL team achieved (again, other than that lot).

Memorable isn't a metric I would use, Luton probably had a more memorable season than Manchester United and a bunch of other teams who achieved something they never did before. This is why a comparison between what Manchester United and WHU achieved this season or pretty much any other season is a bit pointless.

 

[massi83]

You quoted me, no? I never said you did. Others have, though. That's what's laughable. As I said, fair play to West Ham.

Yes, I added that, so there is no confusion, thus creating confusion it seems.

 

[Robbie Boy]

They finished about 10 places lower in the league.

Finishing 2nd and 3rd gets the same reward.

Arsenal fans are very touchy about their awesome, amazing second place finish. If you don't put respect on it, they get awfully pissy. I'm shocked they didn't have an open top bus parade considering how much they're celebrating it.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

It's relevant to West Ham, yes, no to us. Claiming West Ham had a better season is the laughable part.

That was mainly an Arsenal fan getting back at United for the other threads.

And then, yeah, I took it that some posts, mine included, tried to look at it from the perspective of each club - is it a 'better' season for a club like United to finish 3rd and win a domestic cup, or a club like West Ham to win a very rare trophy - and even rarer European trophy - but underachieve in the league?

I don't think anyone, other than the Arsenal WUM, was saying they'd rather United finish 14th but win the Conference League rather than 3rd and the League Cup. Just, which club / fans will be more excited about their season.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Yes, I added that, so there is no confusion, thus creating confusion it seems.

Ok, well I have zero issues with people praising West Ham. The issue is definitely around the wums.

 

[Robbie Boy]

That was mainly an Arsenal fan getting back at United for the other threads.

And then, yeah, I took it that some posts, mine included, tried to look at it from the perspective of each club - is it a 'better' season for a club like United to finish 3rd and win a domestic cup, or a club like West Ham to win a very rare trophy - and even rarer European trophy - but underachieve in the league?

I don't think anyone, other than the Arsenal WUM, was saying they'd rather United finish 14th but win the Conference League rather than 3rd and the League Cup. Just, which club / fans will be more excited about their season.

I'm not even too sure about this. West Ham's season overall was fairly shite barring last night. Yeah, maybe it'll be memorable to them, but overall they regressed this season while we made steady progress.

 

[Garethw]

It’s a Z level trophy, but I’d take the Conference League. As a club we would then have won every available European trophy.

 

[scottser]

the conference league is harder to win; better standard of teams and more matches, plus it comes with europa league qualification.