Adam Johnson found guilty of one count of sexual activity with a child | Sentenced to six years

[Walrus]

That sentence is longer than rape cases. Is that because he's famous?

A five year sentence seems an absolute joke.

Hell, I'm not convinced a custodial sentence is necessary.

Oh and Sunderland made themselves look like a fecking embarrassment throughout.

It's funny how these things work. In my home country, which is culturally very similar to England, what he's done would undoubtedly be considered morally unacceptable but it wouldn't be a crime because we just happen to have set the age of consent a year lower. Makes you think of how arbitrary many of our laws are. I've been thinking the same thing about polygamy - immigrants to come to Denmark and are forced to split up their families because the husband has two wives. It may seem crazy to us but who are we to say that they can't have an arrangement which satisfies all parties much more than many unhealthy traditional western marriages? Anyway, that's for another time and thread, I suppose.

EDIT: Okay, just read the WhatsApp messages. He's a bit of a creep.

I agree with these sentiments.

 

[Lay]

Around the time of his arrest I heard quite a lot of stuff from a "source close to the club", so to speak. There's a bit of a divide in the club. You have the foreign players, plus the likes of the very devout John O'Shea, who are very straight laced. Then there is a cohort of a few English players who baffle and revolt them with gross behaviour. They just can't understand the behaviour of them. Johnson is part of that crew, as was this lad for another example:


Fletcher and Wickham were also mentioned during the trial.

Didn't Fletcher refuse to give evidence after the guilty plea?

 

[acnumber9]

A club can legally terminate a contract at any time, but the player has to be paid off, either by coming to a deal, or if the player won't negotiate by paying off his full expected wages over the length of the contract. Perhaps there's some get out that is activated once found guilty of breaking the law like this, or something that made waiting to terminate his contract a financial issue.

They could've done that. However if he'd been found innocent they would've opened themselves up to a legal suit. I worked with a girl who was charged with sexual assault on a minor and she was suspended with full pay. There's no way they could've justifiably fired her at that time. Though Sunderland could've gone down the route of suspending with pay they chose to continue playing him. I'm not sure they deserve much criticism unless they were fully aware of his guilt.

 

[Twisted_Woody]

He broke the law and should be punished.

That said it is a bit of a '40 in a 30 zone' crime isn't it? I lost my virginity at 15 to someone in their 20s. If he wasn't a footballer I don't think this would have ever got any further than an awkward fumble in a car. I'm not defending him but if we think girls and boys pop their cherries with people strictly their side of the age of consent line then we're kidding ourselves.

Based on my (albeit limited) reading he coerced her and used his station as a famous footballer to influence her decision making. In your example it sounds like you were both consenting people and no one was influenced one way or the other. Although technically still wrong, I think there is a difference.

 

[LuisNaniencia]

Reading those WhatsApp messages, he needs some jail time.

I think things have changed since I was at school, I remember in year 9/10 all the pretty popular girls were going out with 18+ year old blokes and no one batted an eyelid. All were sexually active and probably groomed in one way or another. I obviously see this case is different but I hope that sort of thing is less common now.

 

[unchanged_lineup]

Didn't Fletcher refuse to give evidence after the guilty plea?

Something like that, he was going to be his character witness. There's a lot of discussion about that right now on the Sunderland boards..

 

[acnumber9]

If he admitted certain things to them (which is what is alleged) that behaviour certainly constitutes gross misconduct and would be grounds for dismissal. His contract will certainly provide for that. They sack him then he has to take legal proceedings to recover money owed. I suspect he wouldn't have given what he's now admitted to. His legal fees in that type of action could run to millions with a small chance of success.

Huge PR own goal from Sunderland here if the allegations are true.

If he admitted it then yes they could and should have. The fact they suspended him instantly when the charges were made and sacked him when he pleaded guilty suggest to me that they were keen to end his contract when the opportunity arose though.

 

[Steven Seagull]

Reading those WhatsApp messages, he needs some jail time.

I think things have changed since I was at school, I remember in year 9/10 all the pretty popular girls were going out with 18+ year old blokes and no one batted an eyelid. All were sexually active and probably groomed in one way or another. I obviously see this case is different but I hope that sort of thing is less common now.

Dunno how old you are but I used to think the lads knocking about outside the school gates were weird as feck.

 

[2 man midfield]

Disgusting little rat, hope he gets locked away for as long as the judge has warned. Imagine throwing away a stunning girlfriend, a new baby daughter and a Premier League career worth £60,000 a week to mess around with a child. What an absolute moron.

Sums up all i've got to say about it really.

 

[kouroux]

We like to protect ourselves from any legal risk, Andy. What's worse, a bit of occasional censorship or no caf at all?

Will this be the case for any legal case from now ?

 

[LuisNaniencia]

Dunno how old you are but I used to think the lads knocking about outside the school gates were weird as feck.

I'm 31 now, obviously looking back I think they were pathetic to be honest. Being over 18 and going out with school girls. At the time I was 14 and just pissed off that the girls I fancied were taken!

 

[77]

Play football again? feck he'll be lucky to walk again after he meets his new friends inside.

 

[DrunkenBeaver]

Based on my (albeit limited) reading he coerced her and used his station as a famous footballer to influence her decision making. In your example it sounds like you were both consenting people and no one was influenced one way or the other. Although technically still wrong, I think there is a difference.

But even though 15 year old's aren't able to consent (and anyone who does so with them should be punished) the fact you are 15 and under the age of consent doesn't make a sexual encounter with someone who isn't, automatically traumatic. Other than her age I didn't really see anything about the encounters or interactions that suggested anything other than girl having her head turned by horny footballer.

i don't get the whole "the law says I couldn't have sex this side of Halloween and we hadn't even had the August bank holiday yet so I'm frightfully traumatised by the whole thing"....thing.

How many men have sex without having to coerce someone into it anyway?

Lads don't buy a girl a drink in hope she'll sober up very quickly and go back to his for a strong coffee, a brisk refreshing walk and some rumpy pumpy.

 

[2 man midfield]

He broke the law and should be punished.

That said it is a bit of a '40 in a 30 zone' crime isn't it? I lost my virginity at 15 to someone in their 20s. If he wasn't a footballer I don't think this would have ever got any further than an awkward fumble in a car. I'm not defending him but if we think girls and boys pop their cherries with people strictly their side of the age of consent line then we're kidding ourselves.

You and @LuisNaniencia are right, but i think this is a bit different. All the good looking girls when i was in year 10 were always off in blokes cars, some of them 18, 19 or even 20+. I remember since it pissed me and my friends off on end. But in this instance, the grooming is what makes it so much worse. You have a certain duty with that level of fame, and he used his position as her favourite player and a rich celebrity to swing it for him. That's all there is to it really, he got exactly what he wanted under full knowledge of his actions. Most of those girls i mentioned are getting married and having kids now, but this poor girl will probably never live this down.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Will this be the case for any legal case from now ?

I can't say for sure, mate. We discuss things at length as they come up. Don't be surprised if we take similar action in the future.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

You and @LuisNaniencia are right, but i think this is a bit different. All the good looking girls when i was in year 10 were always off in blokes cars, some of them 18, 19 or even 20+. I remember since it pissed me and my friends off on end. But in this instance, the grooming is what makes it so much worse. You have a certain duty with that level of fame, and he used his position as her favourite player and a rich celebrity to swing it for him. That's all there is to it really, he got exactly what he wanted under full knowledge of his actions. Most of those girls i mentioned are getting married and having kids now, but this poor girl will probably never live this down.

Well, almost. Fortunately, he didn't get everything he wanted.

 

[LuisNaniencia]

You and @LuisNaniencia are right, but i think this is a bit different. All the good looking girls when i was in year 10 were always off in blokes cars, some of them 18, 19 or even 20+. I remember since it pissed me and my friends off on end. But in this instance, the grooming is what makes it so much worse. You have a certain duty with that level of fame, and he used his position as her favourite player and a rich celebrity to swing it for him. That's all there is to it really, he got exactly what he wanted under full knowledge of his actions. Most of those girls i mentioned are getting married and having kids now, but this poor girl will probably never live this down.

I agree mate. Also I think his age makes it different. Legally it doesn't make a difference but obviously 18 is nearer to 15 than 29 or whatever he is.

 

[Parry Gallister]

He broke the law and should be punished.

That said it is a bit of a '40 in a 30 zone' crime isn't it? I lost my virginity at 15 to someone in their 20s. If he wasn't a footballer I don't think this would have ever got any further than an awkward fumble in a car. I'm not defending him but if we think girls and boys pop their cherries with people strictly their side of the age of consent line then we're kidding ourselves.

No but there is a difference between teenagers of different ages going at it, compared to a full-grown man with someone who is effectively still a child. I'm sure loads know girls at school or whatever who went about with guys in their early twenties but that doesn't excuse it, it's not right from them, even if the age difference still isn't as bad as it was here. Even during my undergrad (though to be fair I did 4 years not the standard 3), the freshers looked/acted/sounded so young compared, wouldn't have thought of going near them.

 

[Boycott]

The girls obsesseion with him likely fed his ego. I highly doubt he ever encountered a fan who was so in awe of him before, probably never really expected it and for that reason he felt powerful over her.

 

[saivet]

Reading those WhatsApp messages, he needs some jail time.

I think things have changed since I was at school, I remember in year 9/10 all the pretty popular girls were going out with 18+ year old blokes and no one batted an eyelid. All were sexually active and probably groomed in one way or another. I obviously see this case is different but I hope that sort of thing is less common now.

How old are you out of interest? Cause what you said here certainly looks a lot different to what I saw at school.

There were a few year 9/10 going out with 18+ guys when I was school, but they often kept it quiet as everyone considered it disgusting and thought the lad must be a creep.

I now know of one guy who's in his early 20s happily hooking up with 15/16 year olds and he too keeps it quiet cause most people will frown upon it.

 

[montpelier]

There's a big difference for the sentence in terms of ''oh it was a mistake, I thought she was 16'' vs. this grooming scenario when knowing her age.

 

[Twisted_Woody]

But even though 15 year old's aren't able to consent (and anyone who does so with them should be punished) the fact you are 15 and under the age of consent doesn't make a sexual encounter with someone who isn't, automatically traumatic. Other than her age I didn't really see anything about the encounters or interactions that suggested anything other than girl having her head turned by horny footballer.

i don't get the whole "the law says I couldn't have sex this side of Halloween and we hadn't even had the August bank holiday yet so I'm frightfully traumatised by the whole thing"....thing.

How many men have sex without having to coerce someone into it anyway?

Lads don't buy a girl a drink in hope she'll sober up very quickly and go back to his for a strong coffee, a brisk refreshing walk and some rumpy pumpy.

Practicality and legality are two different things. While she may not have been traumatized who is to say she wasn't. We really have no idea. All we know is that, as a society, we have said that individuals under *X* years of age are vulnerable and thus can't give consent. That coupled with evidence and testimony leads to whether or not someone is guilty or not guilty.

Presumably if this girl was not traumatized, she would have just gotten on with her life, deleted the messages, and never spoken a word of it. Clearly that wasn't the case.

A cynical view could be that she is not traumatized in anyway, that she knew full well how to get him in trouble, and just gave him the figurative rope and let him hang himself and is having a laugh at his stupidity.

Either this girl is a victim and Johnson a stupid idiot/sexpest who should know better than to chase underage girls, or this girl played him in which case Johnson is still a stupid idiot/potential sexpest who should know better than to chase underage girls.

Either way...

 

[Oggmonster]

Why are footballers so thick? He could pay for, if not pull, all sorts of women and yet he goes for a minor? To call him a moron is an insult to all morons out there.

Whilst I agree that footballers aren't the cleverest this has nothing to do with his profession really and all to do with himself as a person.

 

[saivet]

Something like that, he was going to be his character witness. There's a lot of discussion about that right now on the Sunderland boards..

I read it was actually about his pubic hair.

The girl said he was shaven, but Johnson claimed this to be false. Fletcher was going to testify that Johnson was not shaven. (might be the other way around, but something along those lines).

 

[gormless]

But even though 15 year old's aren't able to consent (and anyone who does so with them should be punished) the fact you are 15 and under the age of consent doesn't make a sexual encounter with someone who isn't, automatically traumatic. Other than her age I didn't really see anything about the encounters or interactions that suggested anything other than girl having her head turned by horny footballer.

i don't get the whole "the law says I couldn't have sex this side of Halloween and we hadn't even had the August bank holiday yet so I'm frightfully traumatised by the whole thing"....thing.

How many men have sex without having to coerce someone into it anyway?

Lads don't buy a girl a drink in hope she'll sober up very quickly and go back to his for a strong coffee, a brisk refreshing walk and some rumpy pumpy.

Yes they can. Any sexual activity is an offence but their consent is taken into account. It's under 13's which cannot consent at all

 

[Boycott]

How old are you out of interest? Cause what you said here certainly looks a lot different to what I saw at school.

There were a few year 9/10 going out with 18+ guys when I was school, but they often kept it quiet as everyone considered it disgusting and thought the lad must be a creep.

I now know of one guy who's in his early 20s happily hooking up with 15/16 year olds and he too keeps it quiet cause most people will frown upon it.

Those guys likely did it for the same reason as AJ. Young girls like to believe they're mature and lap up being with older guys because they're older. For the guys they're a play thing.

 

[LuisNaniencia]

How old are you out of interest? Cause what you said here certainly looks a lot different to what I saw at school.

There were a few year 9/10 going out with 18+ guys when I was school, but they often kept it quiet as everyone considered it disgusting and thought the lad must be a creep.

I now know of one guy who's in his early 20s happily hooking up with 15/16 year olds and he too keeps it quiet cause most people will frown upon it.

31 pal. It was really common, the girls parents were fully aware and all. Looking back now it seems awful.

 

[Walrus]

He certainly seems a creep but I can't help but feel it is ridiculous that in half of Europe (including France, Germany and Italy) it wouldn't have been against the law, but over here because of one years difference, the guy could see 10 years in jail and have his life destroyed.

Conversely there are some countries where the age of consent is 17 - does that mean that all the same 16 year old English girls who are legally "of age" would be traumatised by sexual encounters with a bloke in his 20s if it happened over there?

I highly doubt the girl is entirely innocent in all this either, as other posters have alluded to, 15 year olds are having sexual contact with 'adults' every day.

Anyway as I originally said, the guy is a creep and he knows the law in the country he resides in, and that he was breaking it. But really, we aren't talking about a 6 year old here, nor are we talking about full blown sex even. I don't think the punishment fits the crime, if we are going by the judges estimations.

 

[Tommy]

He's coming for you, Adam.

Spoiler

 

[unchanged_lineup]

I read it was actually about his pubic hair.

The girl said he was shaven, but Johnson claimed this to be false. Fletcher was going to testify that Johnson was not shaven. (might be the other way around, but something along those lines).

Yup that was it. I'm reading other things on the Sunderland board right now that are very interesting but I'll leave off til there's better sources.

 

[VorZakone]

Plenty of guys here above 18 where I live have hooked up with 12/13 year olds. Weird thing is that nobody actually gave a shit.

I've read the whatsapp messages by the way. Johnson comes off very calculating.

 

[Tommy]

Plenty of guys here above 18 where I live have hooked up with 12/13 year olds. Weird thing is that nobody actually gave a shit.

I've read the whatsapp messages by the way. Johnson comes off very calculating.

Wait what the feck? Where on earth do you live?!

 

[George Owen]

if the age of criminal responsibility is 10 years old in England, they should change the laws then.

A girl is too innocent at 15 to be lured by a football player, but at 13 year old kid is responsible enough for his delinquent habits?


feck that. I lost my virginity to a 13yo (when i was 14-15, but she looked way older than me. Big tits, bis ass...). After i dumped her she started dating a 27 year old guy. Some young ladies grow up faster and enjoy sex. what you gonna do? force them to have sex only with kids?


Johnson is an asshole though, for cheating on his wife.

 

[Spoony]

Johnson is an asshole though, for cheating on his wife.

He's a fecking creepy bastard.

 

[VorZakone]

Wait what the feck? Where on earth do you live?!

It's a city of 90.000 people in the Netherlands. I know stories about 20+ year olds, usually Moroccans or an other ethnic minority group, hooking up with 12/13 year olds and sometimes raping them in parks at night.

 

[NinjaFletch]

You and @LuisNaniencia are right, but i think this is a bit different. All the good looking girls when i was in year 10 were always off in blokes cars, some of them 18, 19 or even 20+. I remember since it pissed me and my friends off on end. But in this instance, the grooming is what makes it so much worse. You have a certain duty with that level of fame, and he used his position as her favourite player and a rich celebrity to swing it for him. That's all there is to it really, he got exactly what he wanted under full knowledge of his actions. Most of those girls i mentioned are getting married and having kids now, but this poor girl will probably never live this down.

Tbh, I disagree with your last couple of sentences based on what I know of the girl, but I don't know how much we can get into that because of the rules regarding her identity.

Even from what has been released by the media though, the picture of this innocent flower of a girl who didn't know what was happening is completely unsubstantiated.

At any rate, the suggestion that the girls physiological state should come into it is incorrect imo, the wrongness of Johnson's actions is the same whether she's an emotional wreck or unfazed.

 

[steve zizou]

What's the difference between sexual activity and sexual touching? Isn't the latter a bit redundant?

 

[ottosec]

Just read those messages. Disgusting cnut.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Jesus, those WhatsApp messages are sinister.

 

[shaggy]

5 years is ridiculous. Deserves to be punished for breaking the law but I just dont think a 5 year sentence matches the crime. On another note his career is now completely ruined and any future prospect of working in football or sport is also gone. Wonder what he'll do when he's out.