From what [Irrelevant point] did, what you think is relevant is the bolded part?
Adam Johnson found guilty of one count of sexual activity with a child | Sentenced to six years
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I agree with this by the way.
Sorry, I don't get your meaning?
Agree with this.
I strongly disagree.
The punishment of a crime should not include being stripped of your livelihood, after you are done with your sentence.
Back just in time for Sunderland's Johnstones Paint Trophy final.
The life of a footballer is time limited regardless of any crimes being committed. Some footballers probably spend more of their overall career doing something other than football. Being a footballer gives you immense priviliges that other members of society don't have and I really belive those privileges should be revoked by those that commit crimes such as this which are of the highest level of scummery.
There are many cases where this happens. For example, a doctor who engages in inappropriate behaviour with patients can be struck off; a lawyer who embezzles client's funds gets struck off; an accountant who does the same gets a similar punishment; and a teacher who abuses her charges won't work with kids again. I suppose playing football isn't quite the same though.
If Adam Johnson was a teacher, would you be happy if he went back to teaching kids in school?
All examples where the crime is related to the profession, which isn't the case with Johnson.
Not even remotely comparable.
It is as long as he doesn't do any kids coaching sessions etc. A lot of a footballer's life nowadays is going into schools, visiting sick kids in hospital etc.
Right. That's what I was alluding to.
The biggest issue with someone like Adam Johnson for me is the planning and manipulation involved. [Irrelevant point] made a terrible mistake for which he should have been punished much more harshly than he was, but an offence like that doesn't speak to a person's character like Johnson's. Johnson could have made different decisions at so many different points during his pursuit of this girl but he enjoyed the power too much. That's not poor decision making, that's being a terrible person who'd be likely to reoffend if not for the media attention he'll get.
Why should Johnson be allowed to go back to playing football on live TV with millions of kids watching? Why should he be allowed to go back to a profession where millions of kids idolise those working in it, where they line up outside stadia, and training grounds to get a glimpse of their heroes?
Which is usually enabled by the income they have earned from their skills as a footballer.
I am not for emotion-based takes on justice. As abhorrent as child abuse is, it should be treated as any other crime in terms of what happens after your sentence is over.
No. We could just kill him and that would solve the problem of having to accommodate him in society.
Actually, yes. I wouldn't mind.
I understand that with the concerns from parents, it would be practically infeasible. Plus it should be a no-go without monitored supervision when he is at work, which would create a burden for the school. But assuming he could clear those hurdles, I wouldn't mind. That is how society should be (even though it isn't)
And again, I disagree with all of those.
There is no problem with requiring proof of actual rehabilitation after a prison sentence before having said licenses restored. But the idea we can tell people, "yeah you are completely banned from this way and this way and this way of earning a living" is insane to me. So what does someone like Adam Johnson qualify for? Or should he be content with living on the dole (that'll go down well with the Daily Mail)? Or being a mechanic? I'm sincerely curious as to what professions are OK for ex-convicts to pursue.
Johnson is a man, that was on video mocking the victim, saying he should have raped her, among other things. Doesn't exactly sound like someone that was being successfully rehabilitated, does it?
There are plenty of people all over the world who completely refresh their careers in their 30s and start from the bottom, there's no reason that a footballer could or should not do the same. Whether we like it or not, the life of a sportsperson is very different to a 'normal' occupation and thus should be treated as such. I think the same should apply to many crimes, not just to child abuse. Child abuse in terms of football however is going to probably be the highest risk in terms of facilitating a comeback for a footballer, and in the case of Johnson we should not forget that it was not just because of football but through football that he abused this child.
EDIT: I would love to live in an ideal world where people are rehabilitated and fit back into societies but i do think there are boundaries to this and this case is one of those.
Then he shouldn't be a teacher. If he still holds those views he is a danger to society and should be put under the most severe restrictions possible. But then does he get fast-tracked to the dole? Or is it just, "feck him, let him starve"? Because if so, we could just kill him (or send him to a penal planet once we have the technology (Stellar Australia)) and be done with these hypothetical questions
One could argue that first of all, he has served his sentence for the crimes he committed (and is probably free under conditions at the moment). Second of all, you could question a lot of athletes in that case. Mayweather, lots of NBA/NFL players, the list is endless. Instead of becoming a hero again, he could become an example for parents to teach their kids how not to act.
Banning him out of society wouldn't solve anything either.
It's quite wilfully malicious to label him a "kid fecker". In many countries, having sex with a 15-year-old is fully legal. Look at the map below: the two lightest blue shades represent 14 and 15 as the age of consent. On the vast majority of the continent, it would be nothing more than a minor scandal that a footballer had a sexual affair with a teenager.
Regardless of Mayweather, but did all of those NBA/NFL players groom kids and say they should have raped them when they got caught? Pretty big scandal if so.
Weapons, DUI charges, marijuana, ... There's a degree to everything but it's not because he'd be back playing football that he'd become an idol again and people would just forget what he did wrong. "Banning" this people out of society doesn't do any good, if he'd stay in the public eye his actions could become an example on how not to act. Making things discussable is a big part of trying to tackle a problem.
BTW I'm not saying he should or will get a team in the PL/Championship. The backlash from the public would be pretty big on whatever club he's signing with.
If you're under 16 then you are a child in my opinion.It's quite wilfully malicious to label him a "kid fecker". In many countries, having sex with a 15-year-old is fully legal. Look at the map below: the two lightest blue shades represent 14 and 15 as the age of consent. On the vast majority of the continent, it would be nothing more than a minor scandal that a footballer had a sexual affair with a teenager.
I don't really care that some countries see nothing wrong with men in their mid 20s onward dating 14 and 15 year olds. I think it's gross wherever it happens.
A lot of people do it today. Should it be the case? I do not think so. Why is there a need to "go back to the bottom", apart from the emotional satisfaction? And we know how that ends up. With people going back to prison. Because the bottom isn't a nice place. And desperate people sometimes do desperate things. Like here in the U.S., where a prison sentence ruins your chances of being hired. Not everyone will be satisfied with being relegated to working at Walmart for the rest of their life. Of course they'll relapse.
Now regarding Johnson, if he does not show proof of rehabilitation, he should not be allowed to engage in a profession that eases access to kids (as you have mentioned).
And those boundaries you mentioned are not logical. They are emotional. And I have a side of me that wants to banish him to Stellar Straya™ but I don't think rehabilitative and non-punitive justice is something where you can pick and choose based on how it makes you feel inside.
Anyone defending Johnson for what he did needs to take a long hard look at themselves.
Sometimes I truly despair of people . He's a scumbag end of story there's no excuse and no defence . If you can't see that then you are the same in my eyes
Sometimes I truly despair of people . He's a scumbag end of story there's no excuse and no defence . If you can't see that then you are the same in my eyes
Let's be absolutely clear. If Messi did 2 years in jail for the same offense, there would be some top team out there willing to ride out the public backlash and sign him. At some point the talent makes the signing worthwhile.
For Adam Johnson that point is probably lower than the Championship.
So 15 is a child and 16 is an adult? Is that really such a big difference?
I understand the law needs to draw the line somewhere and 16 is as good as any. But that doesn't mean someone who fingers a 15-year-old girl is a kid fecker or a pedophile. I also think it's a less heinous offence than drink driving, actually. You're very unlikely to kill a high school girl by fingering.
I agree that it's gross though, no argument there. Just as not as gross as killing someone.
Yes because once you hit 16 something magically happens that means you are no longer a child
.Also can you expand on why its "gross".
These men aint paedos which is gross btw.
These men are legally engaging in relationships with young women who have reached puberty,and can bear children and feed them with their own milk. Thats nature.
Theres nothing gross about it as far as im concerned.
It's gross because there's a huge difference in life experience, there's a tremendous power imbalance and so on. I mean, a 50-year-old man having a relationship with a 20-year-old university student is gross, too. Perfectly legal but makes me queasy.Yes because once you hit 16 something magically happens that means you are no longer a child
Also can you expand on why its "gross".
These men aint paedos which is gross btw.
These men are legally engaging in relationships with young women who have reached puberty,and can bear children and feed them with their own milk. Thats nature.
Theres nothing gross about it as far as im concerned.
It's quite wilfully malicious to label him a "kid fecker". In many countries, having sex with a 15-year-old is fully legal. Look at the map below: the two lightest blue shades represent 14 and 15 as the age of consent. On the vast majority of the continent, it would be nothing more than a minor scandal that a footballer had a sexual affair with a teenager.
Haha, Vatican City age of consent is 18
Really?
We see that a lot nowadays and I think we underestimate the intelligence or experience of 20 year old women. As long as it's consensual then all's good.
There is definitely a huge drop in experience going a few years down from 20.
Woah, 27 in Ireland and Cyprus' Bottom!It's quite wilfully malicious to label him a "kid fecker". In many countries, having sex with a 15-year-old is fully legal. Look at the map below: the two lightest blue shades represent 14 and 15 as the age of consent. On the vast majority of the continent, it would be nothing more than a minor scandal that a footballer had a sexual affair with a teenager.
Anyone who is in their twenties going out with a fifteen year old is an abuser and a fecking dickhead and anyone posting graphs about age of consent is a wierdo as well.
15 year olds are fecking idiots and are NOT ready for anywhere near the kind of pressure grown men (or women) can put them under.
15 year olds are fecking idiots and are NOT ready for anywhere near the kind of pressure grown men (or women) can put them under.
Why? These are the actual laws. In Germany for example Johnson wouldn't have gone to prison as what he did is not an offense under the law.
I mean these are two culturally very similar countries yet in one he gets called a paedophile in the other he would be a free man. At the very least it's worth having a conversation about.
When I was in 9th grade one of my classmates was dating a 28-year old who used to pick her up in his sports car after school. Noone really thought anything of it.
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Anybody still at school should be out of bounds.
Johnson knowingly groomed his victim, broke the law, and was rightly convicted and sentenced. He has now served his time. That's how the law works and that's how justice works. I don't see how it's useful or how it benefits society to continue to punish people after the sentence has been served. As a general point, all this does is encourage recidivism (adexkola's reference to the US criminal justice system is a great example of this).
I don't think the various posts comparing his crime to another crime, or comparing age of consent in the UK to other countries, or distinguishing "footballer" as a privileged profession are that helpful because they create room for interpretation and grey areas. Who judges which crime is too offensive, or which profession is too privileged? The only thing that is relevant is the UK legal system and the terms of his conviction. If that legally allows him to pursue a career as a footballer then I wouldn't have a problem with Johnson playing professional football in the UK.
That said, I don't think he'll ever get a contract in the UK again. No club will want to take on the risk of hugely negative PR, sponsors leaving, etc.
I don't think the various posts comparing his crime to another crime, or comparing age of consent in the UK to other countries, or distinguishing "footballer" as a privileged profession are that helpful because they create room for interpretation and grey areas. Who judges which crime is too offensive, or which profession is too privileged? The only thing that is relevant is the UK legal system and the terms of his conviction. If that legally allows him to pursue a career as a footballer then I wouldn't have a problem with Johnson playing professional football in the UK.
That said, I don't think he'll ever get a contract in the UK again. No club will want to take on the risk of hugely negative PR, sponsors leaving, etc.
I agree, he’s a twat and a scumbag but definitely poses no danger to children in comparison to the second fecker.
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Doubt Johnson will get any job for that matter. Too well known in uk. He could use his middle name and move to some other country where he is less known, but they could easily google him and he would probably be fired.
There was a guy in ireland that killed some teenager years ago. Got out of jail and moved to the UK and used his middle name. Working away in the UK as far as i know. But Adam Johnson is too well known i feel.
There was a guy in ireland that killed some teenager years ago. Got out of jail and moved to the UK and used his middle name. Working away in the UK as far as i know. But Adam Johnson is too well known i feel.
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