Adisa
likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt
I've mentioned it often on the Cafe. My sister schools in Auburn. She has a low opinion of the state. Let me just leave it like that.
Even medical practice for adults is the same. If you're in a vegetative state your next of kin (or doctor if you don't have one) decides when the plug is pulled.Hence why every modern country has an abortion cut off before rationality and self consciousness develops.
I think that is a point where it might be worth to consider the circumstances of your wife and someone else in the position that they might want an abortion. There are a few circumstances that may have to be considered and you have already explained your position on some of them.My wife has looked me in the eye and told me that she could never abort. I didn't play 21 scenarios with her, but she stressed the "never". Before giving birth to our children, she also made me swear to prioritise them if a decision had to be made any point. Thankfully it never came to that.
Was it her choice to have the baby or not?My sister is pro-life. And she's grateful that my wife is pro-life too, or her niece may not have been given a chance to live. Would you like to come mansplain feminism to them?
Actually one of the most devious aspects of this is the rule in a lot of states that you have to wait a 72 hour period after your first consultation at an abortion clinic before actually going through with the procedure. This puts a significantly larger financial burden on the people seeking abortions and of course as is kind of the point of all of this, it disproportionately affects the poor/vulnerable.Like modern Mississippi next door? Hah...
To get to a less backwater state you'd have to travel halfway across a very large country. They aim to make it all but impossible for anyone (except the well-off) .
Why?I do believe life begins at the point of conception
I've always struggled with the issue of abortion. Whilst I land on the side of a woman's right to choose, I think it is an extremely delicate moral and ethical issue.
I do believe life begins at the point of conception, and I'm all for that life being protected as much as possible. However I do think ultimately the woman has a right to choose what happens to their body, and should be able to terminate said pregnancy in a safe way if that is what they desire. The issue with banning abortion is that it doesn't stop it, it merely drives women underground to extremely dangerous forms of abortion.
What I don't think is helpful is someone who happens to be pro-life being accused of some form of moral bankruptcy. There are legitimate reasons as to why somebody may be pro-life, and not all of them centre around religious lines either. As I said I think it's a delicate moral and ethical issue.
Such compassion.
I assume you don't have a sister? I'd love you to tell her that and see her response if you did.
On point.There's no point where life begins. It's a long series of growth that starts with the fertilisation of the egg. The sperm and egg are individually alive, as are sunflower seeds. The fertilised egg is as alive as a sporing algae, and who gives a shit about sporing algae. The foetus has a ton of stages, a lot of which are just a mushy collection of undeveloped organs and muscles. Consciousness and grey matter don't develop until the third trimester. Up until that point the foetus is wholly braindead. There's no god that whips down to the womb and gives the foetus a soul at any point. There's no god that gives it a soul later either. It's just a biological process where the foetus slowly grows into a human if the mothers womb is healthy enough. There's no magic or god or soul to it.
Why?
Why?
Maybe so but it’s the men who are making the laws. Imagine if only women had a say on abortion legislation. Even with all the nutcases as you say, I’m certain that no anti abortion laws would pass.For my experience the most hardcore anti-choice people are religious women.
I know the left likes the meme of "men telling women what to do with their body" but I would bet dollars to donuts that every single one of those Alabama lawmakers have wives/female family that are even more hardcore anti-choice than they are.
The most horrific sociopathic comments I have heard from anti-choice people has been from religious women (and their husbands would kind of just go along with it). I personally have never met a man as vicious as the religious women who are anti-choice.
Maybe so but it’s the men who are making the laws. Imagine if only women had a say on abortion legislation. Even with all the nutcases as you say, I’m certain that no anti abortion laws would pass.
For my experience the most hardcore anti-choice people are religious women.
I know the left likes the meme of "men telling women what to do with their body" but I would bet dollars to donuts that every single one of those Alabama lawmakers have wives/female family that are even more hardcore anti-choice than they are.
The most horrific sociopathic comments I have heard from anti-choice people has been from religious women (and their husbands would kind of just go along with it). I personally have never met a man as vicious as the religious women who are anti-choice.
Consciousness and grey matter don't develop until the third trimester. Up until that point the foetus is wholly braindead.
That's what I'm assuming a discussion about abortion is focusing on... "human life".To get very pedantic I think its fair to say 'life' certainly begins at conception.
but the key for me is that 'human life' (which by definition needs human consciousness) cannot begin until the nervous system is sufficiently complex enough to support human consciousness (3rd trimester basically).
That's brain growth, grey matter is on the border of the second/third which I'm counting as third because it's less wordyThat development happens earlier in the second trimester. The third trimester cutoff was not about consciousness, it was about viability (at the time of Roe). Technology and medical advances have pushed the viability point back into the second trimester as well.
I've always struggled with the issue of abortion. Whilst I land on the side of a woman's right to choose, I think it is an extremely delicate moral and ethical issue.
I do believe life begins at the point of conception, and I'm all for that life being protected as much as possible. However I do think ultimately the woman has a right to choose what happens to their body, and should be able to terminate said pregnancy in a safe way if that is what they desire. The issue with banning abortion is that it doesn't stop it, it merely drives women underground to extremely dangerous forms of abortion.
What I don't think is helpful is someone who happens to be pro-life being accused of some form of moral bankruptcy. There are legitimate reasons as to why somebody may be pro-life, and not all of them centre around religious lines either. As I said I think it's a delicate moral and ethical issue.
That's brain growth, grey matter is on the border of the second/third which I'm counting as third because it's less wordy
If you look at the women who voted, it shows a different conclusion.If only men had a say on abortion I think the result would be same as only women nationwide.
I just don't think the problem is "men", the problem is crazy conservative religious values. If you had 22 women of same social class from Alabama I bet they would still vote for this law.
that's a pure coincidence, a lot of the women who are religiously conservative tend to be in positions of power, the opinion polling shows very small differences in positions as a gender splitIf you look at the women who voted, it shows a different conclusion.
it's around the same time so it might just be a coincidence, didn't mean to imply otherwise
it basically boils down to period where brain is growing but doing nothing - period where the brain starts doing things that might be consciousness but we don't know yet because no ones worked it outHow do they know it’s around the same time? How do they know when a foetus becomes conscious?
I’m being pedantic here and I’m pro choice anyway. Just find it very difficult to argue a case for abortion that doesn’t involve terminating unborn human beings. No idea what the science says here. I suspect it’s vague.
My personal opinion is that true consciousness isn’t present before birth. But late stage terminations make me very queasy, morally.
White women as well.All middle-aged white men. That demographic is killing us at the ballot box.
There were only 3 and they were Democrats I believ.If you look at the women who voted, it shows a different conclusion.
I've always struggled with the issue of abortion. Whilst I land on the side of a woman's right to choose, I think it is an extremely delicate moral and ethical issue.
I do believe life begins at the point of conception, and I'm all for that life being protected as much as possible. However I do think ultimately the woman has a right to choose what happens to their body, and should be able to terminate said pregnancy in a safe way if that is what they desire. The issue with banning abortion is that it doesn't stop it, it merely drives women underground to extremely dangerous forms of abortion.
What I don't think is helpful is someone who happens to be pro-life being accused of some form of moral bankruptcy. There are legitimate reasons as to why somebody may be pro-life, and not all of them centre around religious lines either. As I said I think it's a delicate moral and ethical issue.
I am pro life but believe abortion should be legal. Does that make me pro life? I just want to be against something personally without make it ILLEGAL. I mean after certain amount of weeks it shouldn't be allowed but early in the pregnancy should be a choice imo.
Anyway this law is stupid.
You're not pro life, you're pro choice.
I don't think it should be a choice if the baby is like what 6 months in though.
I don't think it should be a choice if the baby is like what 6 months in though.
I'm definitely pro-choice. I don't think anybody but the mother should have any input here.
Those arguing against that seem to completely ignore that, in virtually every case, the mother has determined that the best interest of the child, is that it shouldn't be born. In many cases, she will have agonized, and tried to find a scenario that would work, without termination.
In these arguments, it often seems that the decision is trivialised, and these women are recreationally aborting. They aren't.
This amplifies the arrogance of outsider-interference. It really is nothing to do with you or anyone else.
I've always struggled with the issue of abortion. Whilst I land on the side of a woman's right to choose, I think it is an extremely delicate moral and ethical issue.
I do believe life begins at the point of conception, and I'm all for that life being protected as much as possible. However I do think ultimately the woman has a right to choose what happens to their body, and should be able to terminate said pregnancy in a safe way if that is what they desire. The issue with banning abortion is that it doesn't stop it, it merely drives women underground to extremely dangerous forms of abortion.
What I don't think is helpful is someone who happens to be pro-life being accused of some form of moral bankruptcy. There are legitimate reasons as to why somebody may be pro-life, and not all of them centre around religious lines either. As I said I think it's a delicate moral and ethical issue.
I think the terminology can be a bit weird. I am sure pretty much everyone is "pro-life" per definition. Being pro-choice does not make anyone anti-life, that is ridiculous. Basically being pro-choice does not mean you don't have the interest of an unborn cell conglomerate at heart to some extent.You're not pro life, you're pro choice.