It's due to the emergence of 4-2-3-1, that is the main killer of the 3/5 at the back formations. That is the only formation where you can hold your ground in the middle against the 3 man midfield of a 5-3-2 and also pin their fullbacks with genuine width. Hence giving you total control of all areas, of course as long as you have the players for it, and that was what forced managers to stop playing 3 at the back and add another man in midfield by removing a defender.
All-Time Fantasy Draft
- Thread starter antohan
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
Why is Finney on the bench? He is as good if not better than Matthews. How about him at outside right, Hagi at inside left, Zico in the middle and Raul up top with Matthaus and Vieira taking turns to bomb forward from midfield?
Fixtures
Hope this works for everyone, I had to push my game to Thursday as I'm stuck with a Go Live most of Wednesday. From what others have posted it should suit them?
WEDNESDAY
NM vs. Isotope
Brwned vs. EDogen
THURSDAY
Gio vs. Antohan
JakeC vs. Stobzilla
FRIDAY
mightberight vs. DanNistelrroy
Cutch vs. MJJ
SATURDAY
Thisistheone vs. Fergus'son
KM vs paceme
Hope this works for everyone, I had to push my game to Thursday as I'm stuck with a Go Live most of Wednesday. From what others have posted it should suit them?
WEDNESDAY
NM vs. Isotope
Brwned vs. EDogen
THURSDAY
Gio vs. Antohan
JakeC vs. Stobzilla
FRIDAY
mightberight vs. DanNistelrroy
Cutch vs. MJJ
SATURDAY
Thisistheone vs. Fergus'son
KM vs paceme
Playing three at the back really is just abit of dewey eyed history love. It only really works against 4-4-2. Playing three up front or any sort of 4231 can cause serious issues.
Before anyone mentions the italian teams who play it they can all switch to 4 at the back comfortably.
Before anyone mentions the italian teams who play it they can all switch to 4 at the back comfortably.
This. People seem to completely ignore this fact when putting 3/5 at the back. No CBs who can play as fullbacks, no DMs who can play as CBs, without all that there is not much you will get by playing those formations.
I'm happy.
Bring it KM. You so shit yow momma thinks you're Heskey.
I disagree with this. Its the players that make the system, as your second paragraph implies. If the player are suited to it and have the skill sets and quality to make it work then there's no way there will be 'serious issues' just because the opposite team has lined up in a 4231.
Player profiles:
Keeper
Defenders
Keeper
Michel Preud'homme
This man knew how to keep a clean sheet (26 of them for Belgium.) Strong, reliable, brave, a good shot stopper and excellent under high balls (Velcro like hands.) Voted best keeper in the world in 1994 and was one of the best throughout the late 80’s and early 90’s. Incredible at one-on-ones. Like a blanket covering the goal.
Individual honours include: Belgian Golden Shoe: 1987, 1989, Belgian Goalkeeper of the Year: 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1994, IFFHS World's Best Goalkeeper: 1994, UEFA Goalkeeper of the Year: 1994 & Yashin Award: 1994
The video below gives a flavour of why he was the world’s best at his peak:
This man knew how to keep a clean sheet (26 of them for Belgium.) Strong, reliable, brave, a good shot stopper and excellent under high balls (Velcro like hands.) Voted best keeper in the world in 1994 and was one of the best throughout the late 80’s and early 90’s. Incredible at one-on-ones. Like a blanket covering the goal.
Individual honours include: Belgian Golden Shoe: 1987, 1989, Belgian Goalkeeper of the Year: 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1994, IFFHS World's Best Goalkeeper: 1994, UEFA Goalkeeper of the Year: 1994 & Yashin Award: 1994
The video below gives a flavour of why he was the world’s best at his peak:
Defenders
Fabio Cannavaro
The World Cup winning captain of 2006 is one of Italy’s finest centre backs. Cut from the same cloth as other legends such as Baresi, Scirea, Gentile & Bergomi, he is the only defender in history to win the FIFA world player of the year. Skilled in the arts of catenaccio yet also a driving force from the back. Loved to step out and intercept early passes. The consummate covering defender. Possessing fearless aggression & agility. The most capped out-field player for Italy.
Honours include:
Laurent Blanc
A surprising fact about Blanc is that he scored over 130 goals in his career. A real goal threat from set plays. Dominant in the air, extremely comfortable on the ball, possessing the technique of a playmaker. Specializes in making those around him calm and collected. Basically was one smooth operator. Intelligent with a masterful grasp of tactics and systems.
Honours: World Cup 1998, Euro 2000, Premier League) 2002–03, 1990 French Player of the Year, 1996 UEFA Euro All-Star Team, 2000 Internazionale Player of the Year, 2000 UEFA Euro All-Star Team.
Carlos Alberto
Scorer of the greatest team goal in history, captain of the greatest side in history & one of the best full backs of all-time. Not a bad résumé. A legend of the game and a natural leader. Fantastic tackler & reader of the game, under-rated as a defender simply because he was so devastating going forward. Played as a sweeper in the 1978 World Cup (despite dodgy knee’s) holding his own. Of course, he will always be remembered as the rapid, strong, powerful right back that could get up and down the flank all day, could dribble and had playmaking abilities.
Honours: 1970 World Cup with Brazil, FIFA All Star team 1970 & 1998 Team of the century, multiple titles in Brazil & National Soccer Hall of Fame.
Any excuse to show the famous goal:
Philipp Lahm
The “Magic Dwarf” can play on either flank but has excelled at International level on the left, often cutting inside. A brilliant tackler, with lightning reflexes enabling him to recover seemingly lost causes for the team. Brilliant going forward, offering width and a goal threat. Lahm will no doubt go down as one of the best full backs of modern times once he retires. Just look at his individual honours so far:
Individual honours include: World Cup 2006 All Star Team, Euro 2008 Team of the Tournament, Euro 2012 Team of the Tournament, UEFA Team of the Year: 2006, 2008, 2012, FIFA Team of the Year: 2008, FIFA World Cup, All Star Team: 2006, 2010
The World Cup winning captain of 2006 is one of Italy’s finest centre backs. Cut from the same cloth as other legends such as Baresi, Scirea, Gentile & Bergomi, he is the only defender in history to win the FIFA world player of the year. Skilled in the arts of catenaccio yet also a driving force from the back. Loved to step out and intercept early passes. The consummate covering defender. Possessing fearless aggression & agility. The most capped out-field player for Italy.
Honours include:
• UEFA Cup 1998–99, • La Liga 2006–07 & 2007–08, World Cup winner 2006, Euro 2000: Team of the Tournament, FIFA World Player of the Year: 2006, Ballon d'Or: 2006, 2006 FIFA World Cup: Team of the Tournament, Serie A Footballer of the Year: 2006, Italian Footballer of the Year: 2006, Serie A Defender of the Year 2005, 2006, UEFA Team of the Year: 2006, FIFPro World XI 2006, 2007
Laurent Blanc
A surprising fact about Blanc is that he scored over 130 goals in his career. A real goal threat from set plays. Dominant in the air, extremely comfortable on the ball, possessing the technique of a playmaker. Specializes in making those around him calm and collected. Basically was one smooth operator. Intelligent with a masterful grasp of tactics and systems.
Honours: World Cup 1998, Euro 2000, Premier League) 2002–03, 1990 French Player of the Year, 1996 UEFA Euro All-Star Team, 2000 Internazionale Player of the Year, 2000 UEFA Euro All-Star Team.
Carlos Alberto
Scorer of the greatest team goal in history, captain of the greatest side in history & one of the best full backs of all-time. Not a bad résumé. A legend of the game and a natural leader. Fantastic tackler & reader of the game, under-rated as a defender simply because he was so devastating going forward. Played as a sweeper in the 1978 World Cup (despite dodgy knee’s) holding his own. Of course, he will always be remembered as the rapid, strong, powerful right back that could get up and down the flank all day, could dribble and had playmaking abilities.
Honours: 1970 World Cup with Brazil, FIFA All Star team 1970 & 1998 Team of the century, multiple titles in Brazil & National Soccer Hall of Fame.
Any excuse to show the famous goal:
Philipp Lahm
The “Magic Dwarf” can play on either flank but has excelled at International level on the left, often cutting inside. A brilliant tackler, with lightning reflexes enabling him to recover seemingly lost causes for the team. Brilliant going forward, offering width and a goal threat. Lahm will no doubt go down as one of the best full backs of modern times once he retires. Just look at his individual honours so far:
Individual honours include: World Cup 2006 All Star Team, Euro 2008 Team of the Tournament, Euro 2012 Team of the Tournament, UEFA Team of the Year: 2006, 2008, 2012, FIFA Team of the Year: 2008, FIFA World Cup, All Star Team: 2006, 2010
Midfield
Maradona
The greatest football player of all time? Most experts would say so. It’s not just phenomenal ability with a ball at his feet but the charisma and propensity to lift those around him to a higher plain that really sets him apart from the likes of Messi. Maradona held perhaps the best skill level ever seen in terms of passing ability and dribbling. Famous for his hand of God goal but also the greatest individual goal of all time. Also famous for single handily carrying teams to success.
The sides No.10 Diego Maradona!
Forward & subs
Billy Bremner
Came 5th in Ballon d’Or at his peak & rated by some as better than Roy Keane. Here to provide a bit of steel in the team, a ball winner, a leader and a bit of a dog. Able to do the ugly stuff & also play. Bremner was a great midfielder but most people don’t realise just how good he was. Not only a hard man but he could really pass and move with the best. Captain of the great Leeds teams of the 60’s and 70’s. Voted their greatest ever player. Footballer of the year 1970 and 5th in the world. Had a knack of scoring crucial goals.
Terrace Song:
“Little Billy Bremner is the captain of the crew
For the sake of Leeds United he would break himself in two
His hair is red and fuzzy and his body's black and blue”
In light of what happened at the Liberty the other night with Hazard I thought I’d share this story about Bremner: During the 1971 Inter-Cities Fairs Cup semi-final the ball landed in front of the Kop. As Billy Bremner picked it up he was greeted with 25,000 voices singing “We all hate Leeds and Leeds and Leeds...” plus one teenager with a boil-riddled face only a blind mother could love, yelling “...and we really hate you Bremner ya ginger ****”. At which Bremner bounced the ball off his abuser’s nose and said: “Well there’s another reason to hate me. I’ve made you even uglier”.
Honours: First Division Champion: 1968/69, 1973/74, FA Cup Winner 1972, Footballer of the Year Winner: 1969/70, PFA Team of the Year 1973/74
Xabi Alonso
One of the best passers of the ball in the world. Incredibly important to both club & country. It’s no coincidence that wherever Alonso goes, his team finds success. 106 caps for the greatest Spanish team in history (and one of the best of all time). Tactically superb. When experts look back on his career they will see how he played at the very highest echelons of the game and succeeded.
Honours: Champions League 2005, FA Cup 2006, La Liga 2012, Euro Champions 2008, 2012, World Cup Winner 2010. La Liga Best Midfielder 2012, FIFA/FIFPro World XI 2011, 2012 UEFA Euro Team of the Tournament 2012
Mário Coluna aka “The Sacred Monster”
Captain & driving force in the famous Benfica side of the 1960’s with nearly 700 appearances. A bit of a father figure to Eusébio. Coluna - out of all the legendary older players - is perhaps the one most likely to still dominate in the modern game. This is due to a boundless engine, a superb natural physique & athletic ability. A real force of nature who would run all day & perform the textbook box-to-box midfield role. Also possessed amazing technique which led to him being labelled by some as the “Didi of Portugal”. Two footed & possessed one of the best long range shots in the history of the game. Won 10 league titles in Portugal. Comfortable playing central midfield or out wide.
Similar to:- A bit of Rui Costa mixed in with Essien or Valencia’s energy and mobility. Complete midfielder.
Honours:
10x Portuguese Liga, 6x Portuguese Cup, European Cup winner 1961 & 1962, World Cup 1966 Bronze Medal (Third Place), FIFA World Cup All-Star Team 1966
Sir Bobby Charlton
The Greatest ever Manchester United player according to Sir Alex Ferguson & England’s all time leading goal-scorer. Regarded across the globe as one of the greatest midfielders of all time and was an essential member of the England team who won the World Cup. He won the Ballon d'Or & European Footballer of the Year in 1966. Has over 200 goals in his club career. Sir Bobby is perhaps the greatest British player of all time.
Some Quotes about our Bobby:
Came 5th in Ballon d’Or at his peak & rated by some as better than Roy Keane. Here to provide a bit of steel in the team, a ball winner, a leader and a bit of a dog. Able to do the ugly stuff & also play. Bremner was a great midfielder but most people don’t realise just how good he was. Not only a hard man but he could really pass and move with the best. Captain of the great Leeds teams of the 60’s and 70’s. Voted their greatest ever player. Footballer of the year 1970 and 5th in the world. Had a knack of scoring crucial goals.
Terrace Song:
“Little Billy Bremner is the captain of the crew
For the sake of Leeds United he would break himself in two
His hair is red and fuzzy and his body's black and blue”
In light of what happened at the Liberty the other night with Hazard I thought I’d share this story about Bremner: During the 1971 Inter-Cities Fairs Cup semi-final the ball landed in front of the Kop. As Billy Bremner picked it up he was greeted with 25,000 voices singing “We all hate Leeds and Leeds and Leeds...” plus one teenager with a boil-riddled face only a blind mother could love, yelling “...and we really hate you Bremner ya ginger ****”. At which Bremner bounced the ball off his abuser’s nose and said: “Well there’s another reason to hate me. I’ve made you even uglier”.
Honours: First Division Champion: 1968/69, 1973/74, FA Cup Winner 1972, Footballer of the Year Winner: 1969/70, PFA Team of the Year 1973/74
Xabi Alonso
One of the best passers of the ball in the world. Incredibly important to both club & country. It’s no coincidence that wherever Alonso goes, his team finds success. 106 caps for the greatest Spanish team in history (and one of the best of all time). Tactically superb. When experts look back on his career they will see how he played at the very highest echelons of the game and succeeded.
Honours: Champions League 2005, FA Cup 2006, La Liga 2012, Euro Champions 2008, 2012, World Cup Winner 2010. La Liga Best Midfielder 2012, FIFA/FIFPro World XI 2011, 2012 UEFA Euro Team of the Tournament 2012
Mário Coluna aka “The Sacred Monster”
Captain & driving force in the famous Benfica side of the 1960’s with nearly 700 appearances. A bit of a father figure to Eusébio. Coluna - out of all the legendary older players - is perhaps the one most likely to still dominate in the modern game. This is due to a boundless engine, a superb natural physique & athletic ability. A real force of nature who would run all day & perform the textbook box-to-box midfield role. Also possessed amazing technique which led to him being labelled by some as the “Didi of Portugal”. Two footed & possessed one of the best long range shots in the history of the game. Won 10 league titles in Portugal. Comfortable playing central midfield or out wide.
Similar to:- A bit of Rui Costa mixed in with Essien or Valencia’s energy and mobility. Complete midfielder.
Honours:
10x Portuguese Liga, 6x Portuguese Cup, European Cup winner 1961 & 1962, World Cup 1966 Bronze Medal (Third Place), FIFA World Cup All-Star Team 1966
Sir Bobby Charlton
The Greatest ever Manchester United player according to Sir Alex Ferguson & England’s all time leading goal-scorer. Regarded across the globe as one of the greatest midfielders of all time and was an essential member of the England team who won the World Cup. He won the Ballon d'Or & European Footballer of the Year in 1966. Has over 200 goals in his club career. Sir Bobby is perhaps the greatest British player of all time.
Some Quotes about our Bobby:
Maradona
The greatest football player of all time? Most experts would say so. It’s not just phenomenal ability with a ball at his feet but the charisma and propensity to lift those around him to a higher plain that really sets him apart from the likes of Messi. Maradona held perhaps the best skill level ever seen in terms of passing ability and dribbling. Famous for his hand of God goal but also the greatest individual goal of all time. Also famous for single handily carrying teams to success.
The sides No.10 Diego Maradona!
Forward & subs
Samuel Eto'o
Possibly the best striker to come out of Africa (Alongside Eusébio). Pace, strength, movement, link-up play, finishing. Eto’o had the lot. The record holder for appearances by an African player in La Liga. In 2010, he became the first player to win two European continental trebles following his back-to-back achievements with Barcelona and Inter Milan. He is the second player to have ever scored in two separate UEFA Champions League finals and the fourth player, after Marcel Desailly, Paulo Sousa, and Gerard Piqué, to have won the UEFA Champions League two years in a row with different teams. He is the most decorated African player of all time having won the African Player of the Year award a record four times in 2003, 2004, 2005, and 2010.
As a member of the Cameroon national side, Eto'o was a part of the team that won the 2000 Olympic tournament. He has also participated in three World Cups and six African Nations Cups (being champion twice) and is the all-time leading scorer in the history of the African Nations Cup, with 18 goals.
George Weah
Scored incredible goals in the most defensively brilliant league of all time. World & European player of the year in 1995, African player of the year in 1989, 94 and 95, and one of the most complete strikers of the modern era. Scored one of the all time great goals for Milan when he dribbled the ball from his own box, beating anyone who tried to stop him before finishing as cool as you’d like. Then sprinted back down the pitch in celebration. An absolute bundle of energy and power.
Luis Enrique
The man who could play almost any position on the park and not look out of place. Hugely talented, fit and versatile. Played in 3 World Cups for Spain. Played for Real Madrid & Barcelona, scoring 73 goals in 200 games for the latter. Named in the FIFA100.
Possibly the best striker to come out of Africa (Alongside Eusébio). Pace, strength, movement, link-up play, finishing. Eto’o had the lot. The record holder for appearances by an African player in La Liga. In 2010, he became the first player to win two European continental trebles following his back-to-back achievements with Barcelona and Inter Milan. He is the second player to have ever scored in two separate UEFA Champions League finals and the fourth player, after Marcel Desailly, Paulo Sousa, and Gerard Piqué, to have won the UEFA Champions League two years in a row with different teams. He is the most decorated African player of all time having won the African Player of the Year award a record four times in 2003, 2004, 2005, and 2010.
As a member of the Cameroon national side, Eto'o was a part of the team that won the 2000 Olympic tournament. He has also participated in three World Cups and six African Nations Cups (being champion twice) and is the all-time leading scorer in the history of the African Nations Cup, with 18 goals.
George Weah
Scored incredible goals in the most defensively brilliant league of all time. World & European player of the year in 1995, African player of the year in 1989, 94 and 95, and one of the most complete strikers of the modern era. Scored one of the all time great goals for Milan when he dribbled the ball from his own box, beating anyone who tried to stop him before finishing as cool as you’d like. Then sprinted back down the pitch in celebration. An absolute bundle of energy and power.
Luis Enrique
The man who could play almost any position on the park and not look out of place. Hugely talented, fit and versatile. Played in 3 World Cups for Spain. Played for Real Madrid & Barcelona, scoring 73 goals in 200 games for the latter. Named in the FIFA100.
Here comes the pain.
Great subs!Midfield
Billy Bremner
Came 5th in Ballon d’Or at his peak & rated by some as better than Roy Keane. Here to provide a bit of steel in the team, a ball winner, a leader and a bit of a dog. Able to do the ugly stuff & also play. Bremner was a great midfielder but most people don’t realise just how good he was. Not only a hard man but he could really pass and move with the best. Captain of the great Leeds teams of the 60’s and 70’s. Voted their greatest ever player. Footballer of the year 1970 and 5th in the world. Had a knack of scoring crucial goals.
Terrace Song:
“Little Billy Bremner is the captain of the crew
For the sake of Leeds United he would break himself in two
His hair is red and fuzzy and his body's black and blue”
In light of what happened at the Liberty the other night with Hazard I thought I’d share this story about Bremner: During the 1971 Inter-Cities Fairs Cup semi-final the ball landed in front of the Kop. As Billy Bremner picked it up he was greeted with 25,000 voices singing “We all hate Leeds and Leeds and Leeds...” plus one teenager with a boil-riddled face only a blind mother could love, yelling “...and we really hate you Bremner ya ginger ****”. At which Bremner bounced the ball off his abuser’s nose and said: “Well there’s another reason to hate me. I’ve made you even uglier”.
Honours: First Division Champion: 1968/69, 1973/74, FA Cup Winner 1972, Footballer of the Year Winner: 1969/70, PFA Team of the Year 1973/74
Xabi Alonso
One of the best passers of the ball in the world. Incredibly important to both club & country. It’s no coincidence that wherever Alonso goes, his team finds success. 106 caps for the greatest Spanish team in history (and one of the best of all time). Tactically superb. When experts look back on his career they will see how he played at the very highest echelons of the game and succeeded.
Honours: Champions League 2005, FA Cup 2006, La Liga 2012, Euro Champions 2008, 2012, World Cup Winner 2010. La Liga Best Midfielder 2012, FIFA/FIFPro World XI 2011, 2012 UEFA Euro Team of the Tournament 2012
Mário Coluna aka “The Sacred Monster”
Captain & driving force in the famous Benfica side of the 1960’s with nearly 700 appearances. A bit of a father figure to Eusébio. Coluna - out of all the legendary older players - is perhaps the one most likely to still dominate in the modern game. This is due to a boundless engine, a superb natural physique & athletic ability. A real force of nature who would run all day & perform the textbook box-to-box midfield role. Also possessed amazing technique which led to him being labelled by some as the “Didi of Portugal”. Two footed & possessed one of the best long range shots in the history of the game. Won 10 league titles in Portugal. Comfortable playing central midfield or out wide.
Similar to:- A bit of Rui Costa mixed in with Essien or Valencia’s energy and mobility. Complete midfielder.
Honours:
10x Portuguese Liga, 6x Portuguese Cup, European Cup winner 1961 & 1962, World Cup 1966 Bronze Medal (Third Place), FIFA World Cup All-Star Team 1966
Sir Bobby Charlton
The Greatest ever Manchester United player according to Sir Alex Ferguson & England’s all time leading goal-scorer. Regarded across the globe as one of the greatest midfielders of all time and was an essential member of the England team who won the World Cup. He won the Ballon d'Or & European Footballer of the Year in 1966. Has over 200 goals in his club career. Sir Bobby is perhaps the greatest British player of all time.
Some Quotes about our Bobby:
Maradona
The greatest football player of all time? Most experts would say so. It’s not just phenomenal ability with a ball at his feet but the charisma and propensity to lift those around him to a higher plain that really sets him apart from the likes of Messi. Maradona held perhaps the best skill level ever seen in terms of passing ability and dribbling. Famous for his hand of God goal but also the greatest individual goal of all time. Also famous for single handily carrying teams to success.
The sides No.10 Diego Maradona!
Forward & subs
Samuel Eto'o
Possibly the best striker to come out of Africa (Alongside Eusébio). Pace, strength, movement, link-up play, finishing. Eto’o had the lot. The record holder for appearances by an African player in La Liga. In 2010, he became the first player to win two European continental trebles following his back-to-back achievements with Barcelona and Inter Milan. He is the second player to have ever scored in two separate UEFA Champions League finals and the fourth player, after Marcel Desailly, Paulo Sousa, and Gerard Piqué, to have won the UEFA Champions League two years in a row with different teams. He is the most decorated African player of all time having won the African Player of the Year award a record four times in 2003, 2004, 2005, and 2010.
As a member of the Cameroon national side, Eto'o was a part of the team that won the 2000 Olympic tournament. He has also participated in three World Cups and six African Nations Cups (being champion twice) and is the all-time leading scorer in the history of the African Nations Cup, with 18 goals.
George Weah
Scored incredible goals in the most defensively brilliant league of all time. World & European player of the year in 1995, African player of the year in 1989, 94 and 95, and one of the most complete strikers of the modern era. Scored one of the all time great goals for Milan when he dribbled the ball from his own box, beating anyone who tried to stop him before finishing as cool as you’d like. Then sprinted back down the pitch in celebration. An absolute bundle of energy and power.
Luis Enrique
The man who could play almost any position on the park and not look out of place. Hugely talented, fit and versatile. Played in 3 World Cups for Spain. Played for Real Madrid & Barcelona, scoring 73 goals in 200 games for the latter. Named in the FIFA100.
For me, Weah is a better striker than Eto'o.
If we take this attitude then there is no point in discussing tactics. Of course players come in to it but its a 50/50 thing. If the system is the wrong one to combat the opposition then you should be penalised for it. This should be a tactical test aswell as just a see who has the best players draft.
Thisistheone has a lot of quality midfielders who need to play centrally, I'm interested to see how you're going to combine them all. You did wisely pick attacking full backs though to provide width.
Thisistheone is looking very very strong across the middle and up front. Playing a 4-2-3-1 could work for him with Bremner & Coluna playing the deeper role
In an all-time draft, I wouldn't be overly prescriptive about 4-4-2 and 3-5-2 having fatal weaknesses. 3-5-2 was pretty common up against 4-3-3 formations as well without getting fundamentally found out. From a voting perspective, I won't be punishing a tactically cohesive 3-5-2 or 4-4-2 that is deployed with players who fit naturally into the roles set out by the manager.
So many good analysis on my team. I'll try to answer those questions in general.
The reason I'm going with 5-3-2 is because NM has good wingers and forwards. So, I'm trying to nullify his attacking force by solidify my defence and midfield, and let my attacking players do the damage. Of course I can do with more attacking minded wingbacks, but Cabrini and Irwin are solid players to help defence and attack; thus make stronger on overall play.
I actually rate Finney, but seems like only few familiar with him and what he can do.
On Raul's choice, I like the type of forward that can also help controlling the play, instead of pure goalscorer. Just like what we have with RvP and Rooney upfront. Hopefully with NM 'only' have Tardelli and Neeskens to do the dirty work in midfield, the trio Raul, Zico, Hagi, and supporting casts Matthaus and Viera would be more than enough to dominate the play.
There's another argument about attacking wingers that won't willing to track back; but that will be on the match thread.
The reason I'm going with 5-3-2 is because NM has good wingers and forwards. So, I'm trying to nullify his attacking force by solidify my defence and midfield, and let my attacking players do the damage. Of course I can do with more attacking minded wingbacks, but Cabrini and Irwin are solid players to help defence and attack; thus make stronger on overall play.
I actually rate Finney, but seems like only few familiar with him and what he can do.
On Raul's choice, I like the type of forward that can also help controlling the play, instead of pure goalscorer. Just like what we have with RvP and Rooney upfront. Hopefully with NM 'only' have Tardelli and Neeskens to do the dirty work in midfield, the trio Raul, Zico, Hagi, and supporting casts Matthaus and Viera would be more than enough to dominate the play.
There's another argument about attacking wingers that won't willing to track back; but that will be on the match thread.
Raul up front is an interesting one. While he was often accustomed to playing off a more direct striker such as Morientes, Anelka or Ronaldo, he does possess the rounded skillset to operate as the kind of modern no9 you see in a contemporary 4-2-3-1.
So if someone played a cohesive 3 5 2 you wouldn't think the guy with a just as cohesive 4 3 3 starts with an advantage? I wouldn't if it was explained how the player is going to stop being pulled all over the place and gives a basic idea of why they set up that way but I'm not just going to ignore tactical decisions.
Agreed. Raul is fit as the modern No. 9. He's not as clinical as Eto'o, but he brings something else to the table. If you have enough goals on your team, he's the type of forward/striker to have. Of course van Basten would be a better choice, but he isn't available.
The 3-man defence will come back into fashion at some point and people will be saying it is in fact the perfect formation.
Sir Alex has consistently bought players that don't fit the system/tactics/formation we already have in place so it would appear he thinks that you adapt your tactics to fit the players, it's just a way of fitting them all in while retaining balance. That's all I'll be looking for. You can't judge a team's tactics based on formations anyway.
Sir Alex has consistently bought players that don't fit the system/tactics/formation we already have in place so it would appear he thinks that you adapt your tactics to fit the players, it's just a way of fitting them all in while retaining balance. That's all I'll be looking for. You can't judge a team's tactics based on formations anyway.
How can you say we only have Tardelli and Neeskens, and then contrast that with your midfielders and forwards?! If you are going to include your AM in Hagi and your two strikers of Zico and Raul in 'dominating the play', then how can you just ignore Pele, Rummenigge, Boneik and Blokhin? It makes no sense, you are discounting our attacking players and including yours.
You have two centre mids, we have two and between the two sets I don't see any clear winning pair in a midfield battle. Matthaus is probably the best, but Neeskens isn't far behind and Viera is definitely the worst of the four, particularly as a ballwinner where Tardelli outclasses him. So overall I think it is fair even and there isn't the slightest indication that you will dominate the midfield. In contrast, I think the exact opposite, particularly when you include Boniek and Blokhin getting involved. Who is going to close them down? You don't have any players on the flanks.
With the bolded bit, Boniek and Blokhin were well known for their workrate man, particularly the former! There is zero issues in getting them to track back.. Not that even especially need to as there isn't any wingers to track.
If voters reckon a manger is going to lose control of the midfield, ultimately it's up to the manager to justify tactics, key battles, and so on. Many players will fit certain systems better than others and it's the logic why they are being used to their best collective ability that is as, if not more, important than the system itself.
Bullets leave guns slower.
Of course you base your formation on the players you have but then there are fundamental flaws with all formations which can be capitalised on. Using three at the back is obviously very dangerous against a team with excellent wingers for example. You can't just ignore where people are positioned on the pitch or we may aswell just not really bother listing what our formations will be.
I agree, was just concerned since it sounded as if you were saying the starting set up will not matter at all.
Brazil play with 5-3-2 variance (their DM move back as CB if required). The Germans played that system for many years successfully. They use 4-4-2 and variance nowadays; it looks more exciting but then losing that solid and hard to break overall game as a result.
Ayeee, think you are spot on here mate.
I was more talking about 3-6-1 specifically though, as opposed to a general 3 at the back. Whilst the latter has worked loads, I have never seen a 3-6-1 which has two centre mids and then two attacking midfielders with a single striker. Brwned pointed out a few isolated cases like Udinese, but fact remains you barely ever see it.
Carlos Alberto & Lahm were important picks at the end there. I kind of limited my options in a way when I picked Diego & Bobby from the off.
4-2-3-1 is how I'll set-up but if Fergus' son comes up with a surprise formation, it might change. Coluna might be pushed forward.
That's a fair opinion. I love Weah. There's probably not much between them but seeing Eto'o more recently fit in perfectly in a 4231 or a 433 system, he's going to be the one I'll start. Weah will be brought on at some point though, no question.
Just to reiterate this, you are actually outnumbered in midfield and attack, 5 vs 6. Not only that, but you are also outworked with some of your 5 like Raul and especially Hagi not offering close to the workrate of Boniek or Blokhin for example.
Never known that Boniek and Blokhin are those tracking back type of wingers. I'm not familiar with Blokhin, but he's a forward, isn't he? Boniek is a hardworker, but more on the attacking sense (not defensively). And that's exactly why I setup the 5-3-2 formation.
If you are going to include your AM in Hagi and your two strikers of Zico and Raul in 'dominating the play', then how can you just ignore Pele, Rummenigge, Boneik and Blokhin? It makes no sense, you are discounting our attacking players and including yours.
You have two centre mids, we have two and between the two sets I don't see any clear winning pair in a midfield battle. Matthaus is probably the best, but Neeskens isn't far behind and Viera is definitely the worst of the four, particularly as a ballwinner where Tardelli outclasses him. So overall I think it is fair even and there isn't the slightest indication that you will dominate the midfield. In contrast, I think the exact opposite, particularly when you include Boniek and Blokhin getting involved. Who is going to close them down? You don't have any players on the flanks.
With the bolded bit, Boniek and Blokhin were well known for their workrate man, particularly the former! There is zero issues in getting them to track back.. Not that even especially need to as there isn't any wingers to track.
I can safely say that my team will win the midfield battle. Anyway, who will be your team's playmaker that can control your game?
They are both hardworkers and well know for their workrate, tracking back isn't an issue and it would be disingenuous to portray it as if it is. But to be honest it isn't even much of a concern - Boniek and Blokhin tracking back will have minimal impact on the game because you have zero threat down the flanks. The much bigger question is whether Irwin and Cabrini can handle the two wingers.
How can you safely say you will win the midfield battle? What is a statement like that based on? You are outnumbered in midfield and attack due to having Cordoba twiddling his fingers on the edge of your area. Tardelli/Neeskens vs Matthaus/Viera is as close a contest as you can get. Being objective, Matthaus is the best player, but Viera is the worst especially in such an aggressive, ballwinning contest like that.
I can't see how you will win the midfield. You have Hagi who offers sod all in the contest, to complete a midfield three. Whereas we have Boniek and Blokhin who both outwork him and come together to make a midfield four..
I don't know much about this Blokhin bloke. I figure that with Raul's movement (sort of van Persie's with us) to drop deep is an advantage of controlling the midfield; added with the like of Hagi and Zico. Then with Matthaus as also goalscorer midfielder (at one time with Inter, scored 23 goals a season), NM has more to worry about. With 5 on the back and 2 solid DM, would able them to concentrate more on the attacking side. Then I have Hansen who can help my midfield, if necessary.
I don't think there are fundamental flaws in formations, personally. Fundamental flaw in tactics for sure but formations are just a way of putting things on paper to give people a rough idea on a tiny aspect of tactics. The only reason I bother listing the formations is so people can quickly scan over the lineups, it's not so they know what formation I'm playing at all.
And I wouldn't call Blokhin hard-working at all.
No bother
Fair enough, well if you don't know much about him you shouldn't say that he has a poor workrate and won't track back! You don't win the Ballon D'Or without being a great player, and he didn't just win in 1975 but absolutely smashed the voting. Of the 26 voters 20 voted Blokhin the best player in Europe, with Cruyff third and Beckenbauer second.
With Raul, yeah he will obviously drop deep and in the right system that would help control the play, but you have Zico and Hagi doing exactly that. He isn't needed, two players looking to get into the hole is arguably too many, let alone three. You'd be better off with an actual number 9 who looks to latch onto the through balls from Hagi and Zico.
1. Viera is regarded as the closest to Keane for so many years. So, I don't know how you just disregard him.
2. The contest in midfield is not just how to win the ball, but most importantly to retain and control the game; which I have the advantage of having Hagi and Zico, so your team can't just man mark one.
Once again, who's the playmaker in NM's team to control the game?
I didn't disregard Viera mate, I said he is a worse ballwinner than Tardelli and Neeskens, which he is.
How does winning Ballon D'Or give a clue if a player is willing to track back or not? Blokhin is cited as a forward. As many forward do, I just assume he won't track back.