Attacking the space means nothing if he can't do all that other stuff.
Anderson | 2013/14 Performances (on loan at Fiorentina)
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The thing is though you could say exactly that about Nani... The question is at what point do you draw the line and say, look, enough is enough and you don't play at your peak enough; it's time to move on?
The way I see it with Anderson is that he isn't being paid huge amounts, the financial rewards for selling will be low (I can't see him going for more than 10 max), he obviously has a positive impact on our dressing room, and we KNOW he has the talent. So on balance, I don't see why we should be eager to see him go. I can understand the logic for saying his time is up, but there shouldn't be a rush to see him out.
No, you couldn't, at all, in any way, ever.
A bit more often, though when he plays I dont think he usually plays that badly. The problem with Anderson as I see it is that we dont see him at all, good or bad, because he isnt on the pitch.
Yes you could. For example, Nani's best, is LEAPS AND BOUNDS ahead of Valencia. But Nani's worst, IMO, is far much worse than Valencia's worst.
Whether he is fit again or not, to turn out so chubby is just not funny (well it is, but it's also pretty embarrassing). How can a player get away with being so clearly overweight? Maybe his lack of discipline with his weight is one of the problems regarding his playing time.
I disagree with the Nani comparison. I don't rate Nani as highly as the majority of the Caf does, but even at his worst he tries to make things happen and also provides decent defensive contribution.
With regards to the second point, I can tolerate bad performances. It's the fact that he still can't keep himself in a decent shape inspite of him being here for six years which infuriates me. All of the positive points about him being a positive impact our dressing room and him being talented are simply overshadowed by the simple fact that he can't keep himself fit.
I've never understood the arguement that Anderson should stay because he's well liked in the dressing room. Players should be judged according to their ability, consistency and commitment. Anderson is not the club mascot. He is a proffessional footballer.
With regards to Nani, at his worst he can't even pass the ball to a team mate 5 metres away. Sorry but you're forgetting just how bad Nani can be. I'm not even being biased because actually id rather see Nani start then Valencia because as you said he can make stuff happen. But he can't on a bad day. On a bad day he can't do anything at all. Just worth keeping him on for a good day. The comparison to Valencia is valid because even on a bad day, Valencia at the very least contributes defensively.
I would have no problems if Anderson was given a reduced wage and officially employed as our new mascot.
feck Fred, we should be able to buy Anderson costumes.
feck Fred, we should be able to buy Anderson costumes.
How often did that happen? Once per season, maybe? Chelsea last season he was horrific but other than that his bottom level is not that low at all, and Valencia was hilariously awful for lots of games last season, just look back to threads at the time, people were wanting him out of the club.
Basically what you're doing is putting a massive gap between Nani's worst and Valencia's worst, of which there really isn't, and also seemingly a large gap between Nani's best and Valencia's best, which again, there really isn't, Valencia at his best in 11/12 was almost on the same level as Nani at his best in 10/11.
I'd say both have contributed pretty equally in their time here although Valencia has had the advantage of playing more games.
Anyway, this is the Anderson thread, I've absolutely no idea why you saw fit to even mention that little dig at Nani in here anyway, seemed completely pointless and out of context to me.
Sell. He's had his chances and not taken them. Flog him in January and get someone more capable in.
That just isn't true at all.
Agreed, Nani's bad is about the same as when valencia is bad. The rest is true.
In fact I said that he was completely useless in that match and compared that performance to Liam Miller famous performances.
The problem isn't high level, everybody has always know that when Ando plays good he is better than Clev. Now the problem is that even when both of them are playing bad, still Ando looks better which is a bit worrying.
He was comfortably the worst player in the pitch. In the same game when Fellaini was very bad. I think that against Stoke he was worse though, the worst performance of a United midfielder I have ever seen.
Comparing Cleverley to Ando is a bit hard though because they are completely different type of players. I think that it was justified until this year to play Cleverley above Ando simply because his low leve was higher than Ando's. With him in pitch, you knew that he would do a good tactically job and would provide some defensive cover. When Ando is good he is really good, for example before the game against Reading last season he was for a few matches even better than Carrick. But when he is bad, he is shocking (like the game against WBA) and loses the ball a lot of times trying Hollywood passes to no-one. Cleverley in this calendaric year and especially in this season has become even worse though. At the moment he is into an auto-passing to central defender mode. It's all that he can do. It became so ridiculous in last game than our other players started ignoring him because every time he received the ball he would pass it to one of our CB in a space of half a second. And it was so shit the performance of our midfield last game in league that our best hope of sending the ball in Cardif's half was from one of Evan's passes, or Smalling/Evra runs.
Firstly, I brought up Nani just as an example of why I didn't agree with one of the points someone raised about why Anderson should leave. I didn't expect it to turn into a long discussion about him.
Seceondly, I'm not talking about long term performance. I'm talking about raw, natural talent. I'm talking about their very best games in a United shirt rather than collective overall. I am fairly certain that Nani's best game for us was more productive and in general more exciting than Valencia's best game for us. Also I'd like to add there is no bias here. I fully appreciate what Valencia has done for this club until he lost his confidence, and was never one to advocate him leaving. But that is by the by.
Thirdly, is it a dig at Nani though? Can you honestly tell me that he isn't inconsistent? Can you honestly tell me that more often then not, his level of performance is significantly below where he can perform? I'm not questioning his talent, in fact I'm saying he has all the talent in the world. All i'm saying is in my opinion he doesn't reach it often enough, and his "standard" solid performance is below par for someone of his talent. He obviously won't play at his peak every game, but in my opinion his average performance is below where it should be for a player of his talent.
Fourthly, Nani has had more than 1 terrible performance per season.
Anyway, no point in discussing this as there is no factual clash here. It's a matter of opinion, and I have mine and you have yours. So best to agree to disagree.
If you make an extremely critical comment about a player it's bound to provoke a response, which is what happened, from quite a few people in here. Actually basically everyone has completely disagreed with you on it.
Yes.
Did I say he wasn't? That's not the point you originally made at all (or tried to)
Below? Yes. Significantly below? No. Unless you're Ronaldo or Messi it's very difficult for the majority of players to perform at the highest level they're capable of, Nani certainly doesn't significantly under-perform more often than not. he puts in more good than bad games.
I don't need you to patronize me mate. Don't see why you're taking it so personally. Yes other people commented, they disagreed. But they disagreed more with the comparison with Valencia rather than what I was saying about Nani alone. That was that. If you think it's a dig at Nani, then you're not reading my posts. All I'm saying about him is that I think on average his performances should be better than they are, and that when he has a bad game, they are very very terrible. Other then that, I'm saying that they happen more often then you seem to think they happen, but again that is a matter of opinion. I didn't once say they happen all the time. But they certainly aren't once a season.
Again, it's my opinion that for his level of talent, he should put in significantly better shifts than he does. You can't say that is wrong, because it's an opinion mate. I see Nani as having the natural talent not too far off Ronaldo. But what he lacks is consistency. And, when he has a bad game, I think those occasions where he could create something out of nothing are less than they should be for a player of his quality. Again, an opinion, again, not saying it happens all the time.
The funny thing about this whole thing is you're jumping on to me as if I'm beating down on one of our players as if I have a vendetta against him, just because I dislike certain aspects of his performance level. It's funny because I would rather see him start than almost all of our other wings (except maybe Januzaj). I'm just aware of what you might get with him.
Anyway, as you pointed out as if I am some idiot, this is the Anderson thread so let's leave it at that or move it to the Nani thread.
I'm not really sure why you're bringing so much extra stuff up here. What I disagreed on is that him/Valencia is comparable to Anderson/Cleverley, which it isn't. Him not reaching his potential, being inconsistent etc are not relevant to that.
Cleverley's performance against Cardiff was worse than Ando's against Wolves, imo.
On my PES 2014 I play Nani, Anderson, Kagawa and Valencia in midfield.
We need a video of that miss it was epic....
What a player..
What a player..
Give the lad a game. We've got injuries in the center, we're not bossing games, we're conceding goals. All of this may continue to happen, but we may start opening teams up with him in the side as well...
Lets just try him and Cleverley again, can't be any worse than what he have going on!
His time has passed.
with the situation we are in right now, i agree with you.
A long time ago.
The worst possible scenario is Anderson and/or Cleverley having a decent couple of games ahead of the January transfer window.
Cleverley has been dogshit.
It was possible the worst time to put him in after sitting on the bench for two months.. He played OK but maybe we would had gotten more out of him if he'd started today.. Interesting to see if he plays more against Shaktar..
His main asset is driving the ball forward which is lacking currently in the team. Moyes needs to sort out the way we are playing at the moment as the middle of the park is dire.
United's central midfield is so bad it is hard to say if Anderson is our last resort or best option. Probably both.
He needs to start, it really is our best option for creativity through the middle. None of our currently fit CMs drive the ball forward as well as he does, and it is something we are lacking greatly. Instead of just whacking it out to the wings at the first sign, perhaps have Anderson run through the middle and cause one than just the one typical attacking route? I would put him and Fellaini acting as the DM against Shaktar, and if it works alright then try it for whatever sad game I have to watch next weekend for us to try and actually win.
It's abundantly clear that he has absolutely no future here.
Heard this for the past 3 years now, yet...
Yet...... He has really done nothing and his time has been up for years now.
A little baffling that moyes has hardly used him considering he's been fit(well, not injured) this whole time. If you actually look back, sir Alex used him loads of times whenever he was fit, either as a sub or from the start. He certainly rated him a lot higher then moyes does. He's actually a decent footballer which a lot of fans seem to forget since he's always injured and then has 1 poor game when he's back and everyone gets on his back. He's better then anyone else we have in midfield bar Carrick pretty much as well, so moyes should definitely use him more.
He more then likely won't ever fulfill his potential or get over his injury problems at united, but why not use him when he is fit, considering who our other options are?
He more then likely won't ever fulfill his potential or get over his injury problems at united, but why not use him when he is fit, considering who our other options are?
Looking at recent performances... we should give him a chance. Cleverley is clearly now a player to play week in week out.
This. Apart from his horrible finishing skills he can actually create something with his runs, open up some space. I bet if we sell him, to say Atletico Madrid or something, he'll be a huge hit if used properly.
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