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I'm always right

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Does anyone think he is going to be our main midfielder for the next 5 years or do you think it is more likely we will buy someone?
If he stays injury free then I think he has a great chance.

The chances of him staying injury free though, well.....

You don't ask yourself why we haven't bought anyone yet? I do, and I believe it's because of Cleverley and Anderson and the hope SAF has for them.
 

gza the genius

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Forget about every good performance, every decent performance, let's focus and those few games where he didn't play well, and sell him for 3 million to Wet Ham
If you think that's how his career has panned out for us thus far then you are crazy. He's certainly shown potential but his good, bad, and decent performances are all pretty equal. He certainly hasn't had only a "few" games that he didn't play well in comparison to his good and decent games.
 

Lawman

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I agree.

But he has also been harmed in that, when in good form, injury has hit.

That's not me twisting anything or saying I'm right, just telling it as it is.
He has also played a part in this by flying home if i recall without clubs permission and the car accident wasn't he under the influence of drink after nightclubbing and drove home? Plus his weight issues have been suspect although that's been a bit unfair he certainly has looked unfit at times previously when his chance has come. And his prostitute episode and love of junk food has surfaced previously. Has he been blameless or has Anderson not holding down a starting berth been down to pure bad luck? You are not telling us how it is you are omitting facts.
 

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In the early seasons when he did play there were, overall, at least as many bad games as good. But this season he's been much more hit than miss.

All of that is academic if he doesn't stay fit/isn't able to last out games. He's probably hamstrung by the fact that we're already carrying Scholes, Giggs and Fletch whose appearances have to be carefully managed. Sooner or later we'll have to focus on getting midfielders who can play twice a week without breaking down or needing 6 months of recovery.
 

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Anderson not holding down a starting berth been down to pure bad luck? You are not telling us how it is you are omitting facts.
The cruciate knee ligament injury and his injuries last season were pure bad luck, no question there.

I don't agree on the weight issues, every time there's a pic with his top off he looks in good shape. He just has a fat look about his body.

Certainly there was a spell concluding with the car accident where he didn't help himself. Not many players would've gotten away with that, but I think SAF has similar hopes for Ando as I do.
 

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Does anyone think he is going to be our main midfielder for the next 5 years or do you think it is more likely we will buy someone?
He and Cleverley together will, yes. I'm Always Right is, in this instance, right. You keep banging on about how rarely Anderson's been in good form, without ever actually answering his point that this is because Ando's rarely had a decent run without injury. Both his runs without injury in this season and last have produced consistently excellent football. For me, those are the ones that count, the ones which indicate where he is as a player now.

For me it's crucial that the two of them play together, though. Individually, they have the potential to be great players. But it's in their partnership, how brilliantly their strengths and weaknesses complement one another, that we might see them become much more than the sum of their parts and, (call be overly optimistic if you like, I don't really give a flying feck) 'world class'.

Also you need a Carrick type in there with them for big games. ACC. Just sayin'.
 

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In the early seasons when he did play there were, overall, at least as many bad games as good. But this season he's been much more hit than miss.
I think season 1 was much more hit than miss, as was last season and now this.

In between those seasons I agree, and it's no good if he can't steer clear of injury for long enough. Last season was so fleeting, just as he started to turns heads he had a couple of off games and then bang.... sidelined for another long spell.
 

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He and Cleverley together will, yes. I'm Always Right is, in this instance, right. You keep banging on about how rarely Anderson's been in good form, without ever actually answering his point that this is because Ando's rarely had a decent run without injury. Both his runs without injury in this season and last have produced consistently excellent football. For me, those are the ones that count, the ones which indicate where he is as a player now.

For me it's crucial that the two of them play together, though. Individually, they have the potential to be great players. But it's in their partnership, how brilliantly their strengths and weaknesses complement one another, that we might see them become much more than the sum of their parts and, (call be overly optimistic if you like, I don't really give a flying feck) 'world class'.

Also you need a Carrick type in there with them for big games. ACC. Just sayin'.
Piss off Brightonian, you're so much better at this than me.

I suck at the internet. :(
 

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In the early seasons when he did play there were, overall, at least as many bad games as good. But this season he's been much more hit than miss.

All of that is academic if he doesn't stay fit/isn't able to last out games. He's probably hamstrung by the fact that we're already carrying Scholes, Giggs and Fletch whose appearances have to be carefully managed. Sooner or later we'll have to focus on getting midfielders who can play twice a week without breaking down or needing 6 months of recovery.
Agree we need to replace Giggs and Scholes the player we buy as I don't think we won't buy I'd imagine would come in and be the main man. Then Cleverley Anderson will need to try and replace Carrick. Will Anderson step up and force his way in I hope so as the potential is there but to have faith in this lad to do this is hard giving the previous 5 years he's been here. On another note I'm Always Right, Anderson has had as many poor games if not more than his good games. So not only has he to stay fit he has to work on this as well.
 

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The cruciate knee ligament injury and his injuries last season were pure bad luck, no question there.

I don't agree on the weight issues, every time there's a pic with his top off he looks in good shape. He just has a fat look about his body.

Certainly there was a spell concluding with the car accident where he didn't help himself. Not many players would've gotten away with that, but I think SAF has similar hopes for Ando as I do.
As we all do you mean?
 

Brophs

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He and Cleverley together will, yes. I'm Always Right is, in this instance, right. You keep banging on about how rarely Anderson's been in good form, without ever actually answering his point that this is because Ando's rarely had a decent run without injury. Both his runs without injury in this season and last have produced consistently excellent football. For me, those are the ones that count, the ones which indicate where he is as a player now.
Nah, that's not true. Like Nani, even when fit he's lost his place in the team on quite a few occasions. Which makes him the same as all young players, albeit he cost more than most do. But it's just wrong to suggest that all is rosy when injuries are forgotten. They're only one part of the picture.
 

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So this has turned into a debate on whether Anderson is a good player or not? Well, let's assume he isn't. The first thing that needs to be said about that is the manager made a ridiculous error not signing anyone in the summer. The second thing is, it doesn't matter. Every other option we have is distinctly worse than Anderson. Anderson doesn't track back enough? Everyone else bar Carrick and Fletcher is worse at tracking back than him. Fitness concerns? Giggs and Scholes can't even run. Defensive concerns? Well, you get the idea.

Anderson might or might not be crap, but this is immaterial at the moment because he has shown more than any other midfielder this season. Play him now, and if he's not good enough, we can sign someone better when the transfer window opens.
 

gza the genius

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He and Cleverley together will, yes. I'm Always Right is, in this instance, right. You keep banging on about how rarely Anderson's been in good form, without ever actually answering his point that this is because Ando's rarely had a decent run without injury. Both his runs without injury in this season and last have produced consistently excellent football. For me, those are the ones that count, the ones which indicate where he is as a player now.
This season is the only season where I feel he has put in consistently good performances, and even this season he's had some bad games. This is also probably the least playing time he's gotten which does allude to Sir Alex trying to manage him better.

Anderson's pattern basically every season has been start out very well and slowly get worse and worse until he finally gets injured. I think last season was the same, he only really had 3-4 very good games.

The injuries are obviously a major problem and make it hard to fully judge where Anderson could be as player right now. But, the injuries are important. When exactly does Sir Alex start trusting him this season? What happens if when he is given a run of games this season and he gets another long term injury? Will we have to manage him like this for the rest of his time here? How much longer do you propose we give to him to work on this?

We can't just keep not buying players in the hopes that Anderson will eventually fulfill his potential.
 

Platato

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Plato since your quoting me let me answer that. I never once said he hasn't improved and he doesn't offer anything different to what we have, he certainly does has he improved enough not sure he doesn't get picked enough for different reasons. He has his weakness for me lack of consistency and his lack of positioning himself off the ball to receive it being two of the main ones. Yes these can be worked on, but giving that he has failed to hold down a starting spot in the team in 5 years I am not pinning my hopes on him, I doubt he will but would love nothing more than see him become our lynchpin in the midfield. I feel like i am stating the obvious here with Anderson. Does anyone think he is going to be our main midfielder for the next 5 years or do you think it is more likely we will buy someone? From what I have seen it looks far more likely we are going to buy some one or Cleverley will step up.
But once again, you leave the impression that you fail to account for the various factors as to why that might be. Doing your cruciate ligament doesn't help in those circumstances but you seem to just focus on his form. As if injuries and how this has been handled is not part of the equation.

There's a lot that has transpired in 5 seasons for Anderson. It can't be boiled down to poor form and inconsistency. It requires a more holistic approach. Otherwise, we're just going to keep rewriting history inaccurately.
 

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On another note I'm Always Right, Anderson has had as many poor games if not more than his good games.
Whilst I agree that Anderson has had his fair share of poor games, I don't agree with this statement at all.

I think he's certainly had plenty more good games than bad. His highest appearance tally in a season was his first and I thought he was largely excellent in all 24 appearances. Same goes for last season and this. In the other 3 seasons you may well be right in that he had as many good games as bad, I don't recall all that well, just remember his injury issues frustrating teh feck out of me.
 

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As I have stated I like Anderson but too many people defend him blindly. Yes, he could be great but he has failed to do it in 5 years off being here. Injuries, form, selection issues whatever these are the facts. To suggest he will now be great and answer our problems in midfield is optimistic. Will he produce levels off consistency and stay fit given his track record? I think the manager might give him a try but think its more likely we will buy someone else. I say might because i'm not even sure Fergie hasn't already got other plans already.
 

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We can't just keep not buying players in the hopes that Anderson will eventually fulfill his potential.
We are perfectly able to keep him and buy, if that's what SAF wants to do. Let's be honest, there are at least three midfielders at United who need ditching before we get round to Anderson.
 

gza the genius

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So this has turned into a debate on whether Anderson is a good player or not? Well, let's assume he isn't. The first thing that needs to be said about that is the manager made a ridiculous error not signing anyone in the summer. The second thing is, it doesn't matter. Every other option we have is distinctly worse than Anderson. Anderson doesn't track back enough? Everyone else bar Carrick and Fletcher is worse at tracking back than him. Fitness concerns? Giggs and Scholes can't even run. Defensive concerns? Well, you get the idea.

Anderson might or might not be crap, but this is immaterial at the moment because he has shown more than any other midfielder this season. Play him now, and if he's not good enough, we can sign someone better when the transfer window opens.
This is part of the debate I got in to yesterday about Anderson. People seem to think that now that most of us would like to see Anderson given a run in the team means that Sir Alex has been fully justified this whole time when really it is just a lack of better options at the moment.

Like I said yesterday, Anderson is inconsistent but at least that leaves open the possibility that he'll play well. Currently playing a midfield with two of Carrick, Scholes, Giggs, or Fletcher and no Anderson/Cleverley is almost guaranteed to produce a shit performance.
 

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I think the manager might give him a try but think its more likely we will buy someone else. I say might because i'm not even sure Fergie hasn't already got other plans already.
So you don't think Anderson and Cleverley may well be the main reason that SAF hasn't bought a CM when every United fan and his dog and pundit and the pundit's dogs have been calling for him to do so?

I do.

I actually agree with the rest of your post by the way, you finally admit there are other factors in Anderson not nailing down a spot and I agree, for whatever reason he just hasn't done so. I just deleted out because it had nothing to do with my main point.
 

gza the genius

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Well yes we can actually, and my guess is, that's exactly why SAF has ignored all calls to buy a CM.
If he plans on managing Anderson like he has this season I fail to see what bringing in someone else would have done to harm Anderson's chances. Instead of playing Scholes/Giggs/Fletcher we play our new CM and instead of relying on subs to change the game we give ourself a better chance from the start.

And I agree with Brightonian, Anderson wouldn't be my first choice to get rid of either, that doesn't mean I have faith that Anderson will ever be a consistent starter in our team.
 

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that doesn't mean I have faith that Anderson will ever be a consistent starter in our team.
I have no issues with posters saying this btw. I don't either cause I have no faith that he'll stay clear of injury.

But... I personally believe that if he does stay clear of injury, he'll be a superstar, no doubt in my mind about that.
 

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As I have stated I like Anderson but too many people defend him blindly. Yes, he could be great but he has failed to do it in 5 years off being here. Injuries, form, selection issues whatever these are the facts. To suggest he will now be great and answer our problems in midfield is optimistic. Will he produce levels off consistency and stay fit given his track record? I think the manager might give him a try but think its more likely we will buy someone else. I say might because i'm not even sure Fergie hasn't already got other plans already.
1. This is the flaw at the core of your argument. You say over and over again that he's failed to do it in five years here, so he probably won't do it now. But you ignore the perfectly valid reasons we've given you why those five years are not necessarily indicative of his future.

2. This is a valid concern. If he continues to get injuries over the next five years the way he has over the last five, then he'll probably never contribute much more to United than he does now. If he manages to shake off the injury problems, however, I don't think consistently good football is something to worry about. During the last two seasons, his good games have far outweighed his average ones. And the good ones have been really, really good. His ratio of good to bad/average is no worse than Welbeck's or Hernandez'.
 

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Whilst I agree that Anderson has had his fair share of poor games, I don't agree with this statement at all.

I think he's certainly had plenty more good games than bad. His highest appearance tally in a season was his first and I thought he was largely excellent in all 24 appearances. Same goes for last season and this. In the other 3 seasons you may well be right in that he had as many good games as bad, I don't recall all that well, just remember his injury issues frustrating teh feck out of me.


And the rest of us but we are Manchester United and if we want to be winning leagues and European cups we need a top reliable midfielder who will start most weeks if not every game. That is not Anderson to date, if we buy one or even two I have no problem with Anderson being a squad player with the potential to come in and hold down a starting place. But I don't believe we can pin our hopes on him. If he doesn't produce this season he imo as stated will be up further down the line as we will surely buy atleast one midfielder to replace Giggs and Scholes and where does that leave him. Playing cameo roles single figure starting stats every season? He really needs to go some this season to stop SAF buying someone imo and half the season has nearly gone.
 

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[/B]

And the rest of us but we are Manchester United and if we want to be winning leagues and European cups we need a top reliable midfielder who will start most weeks if not every game. That is not Anderson to date, if we buy one or even two I have no problem with Anderson being a squad player with the potential to come in and hold down a starting place. But I don't believe we can pin our hopes on him. If he doesn't produce this season he imo as stated will be up further down the line as we will surely buy atleast one midfielder to replace Giggs and Scholes and where does that leave him. Playing cameo roles single figure starting stats every season? He really needs to go some this season to stop SAF buying someone imo and half the season has nearly gone.
I completely agree Lawman.

What a perfect way to end a debate before training. :D
 

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Anderson's inconsistent without the injuries, he's looked better this season though so maybe he's starting to properly develop. Saying that he was poor against Gala and then changed the game against QPR, so feck noes.
 

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So you don't think Anderson and Cleverley may well be the main reason that SAF hasn't bought a CM when every United fan and his dog and pundit and the pundit's dogs have been calling for him to do so?

I do.

I actually agree with the rest of your post by the way, you finally admit there are other factors in Anderson not nailing down a spot and I agree, for whatever reason he just hasn't done so. I just deleted out because it had nothing to do with my main point.
No I think Fergie has not bought someone as the player/players he wanted were unavailable or overpriced as this is what he has said, he won't buy for the sake of buying and his value statement. I thought Demble would have been a better option but Fergie thought not. Finally admit lol what you talking about I have been saying from the start about other issues with Anderson but those also go a long way in me forming my opinion of him.
 

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Anderson's inconsistent without the injuries, he's looked better this season though so maybe he's starting to properly develop. Saying that he was poor against Gala and then changed the game against QPR, so feck noes.
Fair point, although personally I excused that one because he was alongside Giggs in a two man midfield. For similar reasons I'm not joining in the growing criticism of Carrick this season, because almost all his 'poor' performances have come alongside Giggs and Scholes, who just shouldn't be playing any more.
 

Theon

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Fair point, although personally I excused that one because he was alongside Giggs in a two man midfield. For similar reasons I'm not joining in the growing criticism of Carrick this season, because almost all his 'poor' performances have come alongside Giggs and Scholes, who just shouldn't be playing any more.
That's Braga, although yeah that was another one.

Against Gala he wasn't awful but he was sloppy at times and wasn't surprised he was taken off - outshone by Cleverely throughout. Plus those corners.
 

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I completely agree Lawman.

What a perfect way to end a debate before training. :D
I wish I was playing against you tonight! ;) Good luck in training tonight, think we are agreeing on most things but you clearly have more faith in the lad than me. Although anyone who has came in for big money at United and been here for 5 years and never been a regular through any reason is a lucky man to still be here. See Berbatov as an example, team of the year, top scorer but out the door. Think Ando is getting it easier due to our lack of options in midfield.
 

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I wish I was playing against you tonight! ;) Good luck in training tonight, think we are agreeing on most things but you clearly have more faith in the lad than me. Although anyone who has came in for big money at United and been here for 5 years and never been a regular through any reason is a lucky man to still be here. See Berbatov as an example, team of the year, top scorer but out the door. Think Ando is getting it easier due to our lack of options in midfield.
There must be a reason, the boss has been so patient with him. Like I've mentioned before, maybe he knows Ando is gonna be a late bloomer, like Flectcher.
 

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I think SAF might still buy a midfielder even if Cleverley and Anderson establish themselves in the side. it means we're now reliant on those two to carry us forward. I'm assuming we could still have Giggs and Scholes at this point but they're not getting any younger. Carrick is Carrick and I doubt if Fletch will return to top form.

Plus Anderson being in top form isn't going to solve all of our midfield problems.
 

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To be fair, this is probably the first time Anderson seems to be on really good form, and Fergie refuses to play him regularly. Memory may fail me, but I think previously he played regularly when he was doing well. I don't know what's the idea behind this. I don't know if Anderson is the solution, but he does add the sort of abilities that we lack in the middle. On the bad days, though, he's as useless as the rest of them...
 

Theon

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Theon, Anderson wasn't that bad against Gala. He was average. Not bad.
In other words,

'Against Gala he wasn't awful but he was sloppy at times and wasn't surprised he was taken off - outshone by Cleverely throughout.'
 

Platato

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When I was following your conversation with Brightonian I got the impression you thought it was a poor performance. Especially since you included the Braga performance.
 
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