I would argue there is a difference between being dropped and giving Lindegaard games. In his first season, he was undoubtedly dropped for Lindegaard around November. In the second, it was giving Lindegaard games.
24
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 47
- Clean sheets
- 12
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 6
Keepers aren‘t exactly cheap these days. And unless they are top top level, any keeper is going to get massive criticism.
The delusion is strong if you think you can get the next Alisson for 50 mill. Diogo Costa costs more and might also get massive criticism here.
Vicario is the second coming according to some here, he would be eaten alive.
Nah, keep Onana and look around for a prospect or someone running their contract down.
The delusion is strong if you think you can get the next Alisson for 50 mill. Diogo Costa costs more and might also get massive criticism here.
Vicario is the second coming according to some here, he would be eaten alive.
Nah, keep Onana and look around for a prospect or someone running their contract down.
Nah, he was even worse in our champions league games. Also pace of a game shouldn’t really affect a goalkeeper
he just is having a torrid time. If its a confidence issue or just being shit is unclear
You are so anti DDG that you have pictures like this in you archive ready to bounce. On top of it, you defended Onana up till recently and were the major drum behind the "transform our game" with a modern keeper? How has the worked out eh?On average conceded less than a goal a game, more clean sheets, less goals conceded and more wins during his spell in goal. It was the best Utd have looked defensively for years. People just didn't like his attitude and thought he was a leaker. Might never have been good enough. But in general all people seem to remember is that Salah goal and it is always the one thing that was brought up about him.
Meanwhile, nobody ever seems to remember this....
And this Henderson spell, how long was it that you drum it all the time? 8 fecking games? Lingard had better purple patches where is he now?
He has a buyout of €60m.
That‘s an expensive gamble, while Onana might improve.
I just read in article he was dropped from Cameroon team in ACN for a GK that was recently playing in the Latvian.
I think we've spent a fortune on a turkey
I think we've spent a fortune on a turkey
Do you know the back story?
Henderson played 25 and a half games that season actually. 10 games less than De Gea, but kept more clean sheets and conceded less than half the goals (22 vs 46).
And? Romero probably had even better stats, means feck all.
Onana might easily end up being our Claudio Bravo as we maybe move on to a more well rounded keeper of the same style in the long term, and I absolutely understand people having lost faith in him with the CL blunders... but pining for fecking Dean Henderson of all people is just hilarious.
Yeah, I keep that one especially, because it's the worst goal I've ever seen a keeper concede in any game or league, even Sunday league.
I have defended him, but sometimes there's just no defending some errors, like his positioning for that 3rd goal, I still have some hope that he will come good, or at least be better overall.
If not then, I'd have no problem binning him.
Henderson did well, but like ETH he had a bad game at Anfield and for some there's no coming back from that.
Romero generally played against weak teams, so his stats are skewed. Whereas Henderson that season played against a good range of teams from City (twice) and Liverpool (twice) down to relegation battlers.
Was Henderson the long-term answer? Absolutely not. He may have also dropped off and been worse if we'd continued playing him. We don't know. But he was clearly better in 20/21 than De Gea was that same season, and I'd say that level was also better than De Gea was in 19/20 and in the second half of 21/22 (and also definitely better than De Gea's last couple of months of 18/19). There were also periods in there where De Gea was better (most notably the first half of 21/22), but it's not like there was some huge gulf between them. It's why I always find it strange that people belittle Henderson's performances in that season.
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21 games - 16 goals conceded (0,76) - Shaw/Maguire/Lindelof/AWB starting
17 games - 28 goals conceded (1,65) - not Shaw/Maguire/Lindelof/AWB starting
Guess who Henderson got to play with for most of his games.
Henderson played 7 games with that defence, 5.5 games without.
De Gea played 14 games with that defence, 11.5 games without.
So an almost identical percentage. And if you want to break it down that way, Henderson was conceding less than De Gea both with that group of defenders and without (0.29 per game less in both). Extrapolate that over a 38 game season and that's 11 goals less.
You must be positioned to see the ball as a goalkeeper. It's one of the first things you are taught as a goalkeeper, alongside having your feet planted on the ground when a player takes a shot, so that you can react in time. You have a player that is naturally going for the curler and you leave a section of the goal that your player has to cover, in this instance the first post. Varane made a few mistakes here:
- Standing too far away from the player, he has to be tighter
- Not showing him on the outside, on his weak foot
- Spreading his legs wide open
I understand the “he burned his bridge” theory re Henderson but if hate for De Gea was strong and we had to get rid of him, it really would have made more sense to give Henderson a proper season before getting rid of him too. It’s not as though we had any expectation of winning the PL or the CL and this we had to refuse giving him a chance. Hendo will never be peak De Gea but he’s a decent keeper, certainly a notch or two above Onana.
Well, I mean, he is bobbins too
Nah, getting rid of Hendo was the right call. He was too far up his own ass to be useful for us. Refusing to speak with ten Hag when he took over was a huge blunder, and honestly he never seemed good enough for United anyway.
I missed Henderson's Liverpool game (I think it may have been at home?) but remember a catastrophe away in Italy in the Europa League (possibly Roma?). He was flapping at everything and not very good with shots either. Had a massive 1st leg lead already, but he was panicking from the first minute.
My stance all along has been that DDG has a glaring weakness that will never improve (crosses), another that could be slightly worked on a bit (passing), and - despite what his critics say - a generally good to decent level of shot-stopping. Even in his worst seasons he pulled of plenty of crucial difficult saves.So, his replacement should be at least solid with shots, and should be close to world class in other aspects.
Henderson was never that. Onana doesn't seem to be close to any of that either. A downgrade is always a real possibility, and that seems to be the case for now.
If this was true (and I don't believe that it is - yes you should try and position yourself where you can see the ball, but not at the cost of leaving vulnerable parts of your goal wise open.) then why do goalkeepers stand behind a wall at free kicks?
Errrrrm they don’t stand behind the wall. They stand on the opposite side with a view of the ball, so the wall protects one side of the net and they cover the rest.
There's usually extra (opposition) players blocking the keepers view.
The reality is that if we had Mike Maignan we would be a far better team.
I actually don't belittle Henderson's performances of that season, and it was handled very strangely, but Henderson never after than made it look like a mistake to replace him with the DDG version that was declining. BUT to use that span of 10 games where he played week after week as some of marker is also laughable to me. He was yet another example of player not being good enough, having a decent patch, which we had plenty.
I'm willing to give him a chance. People forget how confidence affects the most basic things - yes, even technique, reflex and agility. He's second guessing at every micro-decision. He's not playing with instinct. People were saying Rasmus couldn't trap a bag of sand until his recent upturn, and now here's seen as a consummate all-rounder.
He'll never be a top class stopper but he's better than what he's shown so far.
He'll never be a top class stopper but he's better than what he's shown so far.
There you go. Why would they do this if it was was wrong from the goalkeeper's perspective?
Btw, I never said move away from the goal to see the ball at all cost. Some common sense will go a long way. In this instance, Onana did what 99% of goalkeepers would've done. We would be having more heated conversations if Neto would've scored in the opposite corner. There are maybe 1% of goalkeepers in the World that might've saved that shot between the lwgs with pure reflexes, but Onana is not in that 1%.
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Is he going to start again for this game? I seem to have more confidence in an old Heaton at our post than him.
Absolutely not true.
Most goalkeepers cover the shorter route to goal first and foremost, if Neto goes for the far corner the ball has further to travel giving them more of a chance of saving it.
You can tell Onana's positioning is totally wrong because if Neto had gone for that far corner, he wouldn't have had to dive, he would have just been able to catch it - that's a clear overcorrection.
That would've been the case if there was no Varane covering that route. You keep ignoring the fact that the shot went through the defender's legs.
If he was standing more towards the first post as you are suggesting, Neto, a natural left footed player would've had easier shot to make by placing the ball, and then, you will still blame Onana why he is covering the first post when there was a player covering the first post.
If this was a keeper in his early-mid 20s then I'd be patient with him, but we signed a 27 year old for 47m who has made several howlers this season due to an apparent lack of confidence.
We need to do what we did with Taibi and accept we got this transfer wrong and move him on in the summer.
We need to do what we did with Taibi and accept we got this transfer wrong and move him on in the summer.
I think there's massive overreacting in here. He had a disastrous CL campaign no question about that. But I cant think of many league mistakes, and we've been conceding an insane amount of chances all season. We let in 3 versus wolves midweek, I don't think its fair to say he was at fault for any of them. That's a trend repeated all season long. I quite like him on the ball and think as a team, we need to stop conceding so many chances. If he was flapping at every cross and seemed to be making his defence nervous, I'd worry, but he doesnt.
people blaming him for neto's is stretching it to extremes. there's a screen shot somewhere above where its being argued he should be more to his left - ie immediately behind varane with no sight of the ball whatsoever. Crazy.
Varane should've done better.
Likewise Antony should've kept the ball. He gave it away stupidly.
there were so many mistakes. why so many men forward, careless in possession, terrible tracking of runners. And people land the blame at onanas feet. bizarre
He wasnt at fault for any of the goals on Thursday night and there was absolutely nothing he could do on the third goal, that goal was 100% down to Varane who could have easilly prevented Neto from taking the shot.
I'm not a fan of his, but that goal wasn't his fault.
Realistically it's Varane's fault more than anyones. He's supposedly a world class defender. He should've closed down Neto's left foot.
Antony shouldn't have given the ball away but these things happen.
Yeah should have said Liverpool, 1 bad mistake or game against that lot and there's no return for certain players, it'll always be held against them.
Think that game was Milan? Where he let in a header or another goal.
The Roma game was the one where there was absolute chaos everytime the ball game near the goal in the second leg and DDG was making saves he shouldn't have had to make if he'd been able to deal with the cross in the first place.
When he fecks up, he needs to be saved by Martinez. But if the defence fecks up, Onana doesn't have to do anything then either because, well, it was the others that made mistakes.
So we've signed a goalkeeper who can make saves only when his teammates don't make any mistakes. So, basically he saves the ball if they make sure that the shot is right at him.