No I'm suggesting that managers definitely pick players unfairly sometimes, that things aren't totally impartial or fair which is what you tried to suggest and is the flaw in logic.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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You’re hardly one to talk about logic when it comes to Martial
Enlighten me. He's not good enough yet people are suggesting he's been treated unfairly somehow. If you're going to extremes to keep making excuses for him then question your stance
Team selections probably are unfair sometimes, managers have players they trust more than others but that trust is gained on the training pitch and with performances. But let's talk about Martial's performances specifically and then question whether or not he deserves to be selected.
Look at your posts in this thread. Jumping on any excuse to have a pop at him even when he hasn’t played in months. Arguing that starting with him is worse than 10 men which is laughable given the recent performances of our attackers. You camp in this thread criticising a player you clearly dislike yet I doubt you’ve had a word to say about the abject attitude on display from the players that are playing week in week out. I’ve said it before but how can you talk about extremes when you trot out nonsense like saying Bellion, Owen, Forlan etc were better for the club than him? Its hypocrisy.
C Ronaldo needs his hold up play and passing the most in the whole squad.
He would turn to the Benzema or Rooney whilst Ronaldo can turn to just goalscoring.
He would turn to the Benzema or Rooney whilst Ronaldo can turn to just goalscoring.
He can't be much worse than any of our other forwards at the moment, that's for sure
How our forwards play (and behave on the pitch) last few months, he should get run of games for sure.
Rashford is playing awful and behaving like he is forced to play, Greenwood is playing poorly and is selfish, Cavani doesn't score goals, Ronaldo is not running and not scoring, Sancho's form is up and down....but yeah, Martial's attitude and quality is a problem.
He has flaws and his time in United was full of ups and downs in form but to get rid of him for small fee while others are poor is just a stupid move.
Rashford is playing awful and behaving like he is forced to play, Greenwood is playing poorly and is selfish, Cavani doesn't score goals, Ronaldo is not running and not scoring, Sancho's form is up and down....but yeah, Martial's attitude and quality is a problem.
He has flaws and his time in United was full of ups and downs in form but to get rid of him for small fee while others are poor is just a stupid move.
His performances have been no worse than the ones we have seen for almost a year from the likes of Rashford, Greenwood, Bruno, McTominay, Wan Bissaka or Maguire. I won't pretend that he has been better because he hasn't but he hasn't been worse either and his skillset is actually worth something, unlike the attackers mentioned above who are as selfish as it gets, if any of these player is out of form they should be jettisoned because they purposely harm your team.
I'm not having a pop at anyone. His performances are abysmal unless he's playing behind closed doors, he wants to leave but won't take a pay cut, yet he's clearly unhappy at the club. I have no problem with anyone who wants to be here and is willing to fight, I have a problem with players that don't want to be here but want to be paid by us to play elsewhere and sulk until they get their way.
I've been heavily critical of our players in the last few months, attitude and application has been no where near acceptable, yet those players at least want to be here and not run away the second a new manager comes in. I'm not sure why you're camping in here, in stalwart defence of a player who literally doesn't give a shit whether he plays or not, and yes, I'd swap him for Forlan in a heartbeat.
I agree, the aforementioned players performances have been terrible but they want to be here and are at least trying. If his skillset was worth anything we'd have offers from other clubs apart from Sevilla trying to lowball a loan with no option to buy deal. You simply cannot have a player who's publicly and privately stated his intention to leave this window start over players who care and want to be at the club. What kind of message does that send to the players?
I have always said that Martial is best at coming deep and then running at defense. He is not selfish like our other forwards. His hold up play is the best and he buys us penalties. His heading is much better than Rashford and Greenwood.
I really don't understand why he doesn't play? Ronaldo and Cavani would love to play with him. His passing is way better than Rashford and Greenwood. He defends better too.
I really don't understand why he doesn't play? Ronaldo and Cavani would love to play with him. His passing is way better than Rashford and Greenwood. He defends better too.
You are having a pop though, literally anytime this thread gets bumped you’re here, chatting shit. We get it, you don’t like him, what more needs to be said? It’s just weird at this point, you talk about me camping in this thread but I’ve got about 5 posts in here, you’ve got more than any poster bar one, and probably countless others in other threads, all filled with hate. Fair enough if you think that’s normal but I think that’s very strange, particularly for a guy who hasn’t played in months. And on top of that, a lot of your criticisms are invented in your head, you’re going on about him sulking, demanding to be paid whilst playing elsewhere, you’ve literally made up that conclusion in your head, yet you accuse others of not using logic? You’re moving like a jilted lover, it’s obsessive.
You see the first sentence that's the point that you deemed illogical. What if the player wants out because these other players that have been terrible starts every weekends without fail and he has been wondering why or been told that he was also valued? If rumour is true something like that was told to Lingard. I'm obviously guessing here but there seem to be a small group of players that can do no wrong while their teammates have a very short leash, what kind of message does that send to the latter group?
You claim that the former group care but I would argue that they don't care more, they simply have a more comfortable position and have no reason to agitate, they get their money and playing time regardless of performance or attitude.
I didn't realize that it was that bad.
I just think it’s audacious for him to accuse others of not using logic given the content of his posts in hereNone of that's true but don't let that spoil your fun. I was supportive of Martial when he was playing well and happy for him, but I'm not going to be in here talking about how hard done by he is and how everyone should leave him alone when he's openly said he wants to leave and is playing like it for months.
It really doesn't take that much working out does it? Sevilla are refusing to pay his full salary, Martial won't take a pay cut to go on loan, talks have stalled. Yet he wants to leave this month right? So something has to give. Who blinks first? Do United pay up the rest of his salary and send him on loan or does he stay until the summer and we go through all this again? All documented by legitimate sources but yeah sure, I'm making it all up because that suits you that way.
Some positions pick themselves in regards to there simply not being adequate backup or the backup wants to leave. Maybe they don't care anymore but it seems to me that there's a collection of back up players who get a chance to play, play terribly and get dropped again. Then they go on to moan about not getting chances and all of a sudden the team goes to shit, and this seems to happen almost every season.
All I want is the moaners to leave the club so we can get back to winning football matches.
So you support and justify(poorly) a double standard, then blame players for potentially complaining about said double standards. What were you saying about logic?
Which part isn't true? That you've got the second most posts in here? That you make up reasons to have a go? If Martial breathes you'll say its an indictment of how poor his attitude is. No one's even asking you to defend him, there's nothing to defend, he doesn't make play so he's pretty much irrelevant currently but I don't think it's too much to expect just a semblance of balance. Tell me this, you don't think it's a bit weird that you've got 71 posts in here? 11 posts this week dedicated to shitting on Martial, yet not a single post about out most recent game which was another demonstration of the questionable attitude of other players in the team.
And again, you're taking rumours and treating them as fact to justify you're obsessiveness in complaining about the guy. If we're going to use press rumours to shit on our players then I'd expect you to be as vocal about complaining about our players as much as you do with Martial but I'm sure you invoke common sense when talking about players you like which is why you come across as hypocritical.
Can't judge Ragnick yet because he is new here but Solskjaer did have huge double standards in team selection (as internal rumours confirmed). Martial is one of those players who was angry about it and now damage is done.
You claim not to have a pop at anyone yet you have contemplated his death;
Many a times you have bad takes, check:
I don't mind this, but the hypocrisy....
.... you seem to idolise Rashy much, yet have such bad takes about him:
- Anyone dare question Rashford again deserves a beating
- Time to build the team around Rashford. He's such an important player for us
Pop much, innit?
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I think it's interesting when you look at Dalot- couldn't get a look in previously and whilst he's not setting world alight I don't think anyone would say that he's been a worse option than AWB so far. Think we've had similar instances of that throughout the squad over past few years.
Martial is an odd one. I've advocated for him a lot on here as I do feel, as others have said, that he's a nice counter to our other attackers as he is looking to link up more. Sometimes that means people will argue that he's not doing anything but I would say that actually keeping the ball moving smartly and waiting for the right moment is what we need, we have too many players who want to go for glory everytime they get on the ball which just isn't possible.
That said I do think there is a mentality issue with him and it really doesn't feel like he's up for the fight. I think that some of that does come back to how many chances he gets compared to others (as you can say for some of the other squad players) but I also think that a part of it is that he doesn't want to fight for his place- get the feeling he'd prefer being a big fish in a small pond.
Been saying this for a while, but people don't want to admit it because Martial doesn't smile or run like a mad man so they think he isn't putting in effort.
Our fans are something else, and this thread is one of the worst echo chambers around.
I have always said even in the time of SAF that a lot of foreign players especially Nani and Ando started going downhill when Carlos left. I think that this may be the case here too. Too many British players get to play no matter how bad they perform. Surely DVB has played better most of the time he has been given a subs role that McTominay? Martial has played better than Rashford most of the time he has been given a chance. ( Not the Rashford of old, the current version). I think Fletcher has too much influence on the team. If Fletcher is involved in the process of hiring RR and also keeping him in the job, RR is already handicapped by his involvement. It is time that John bloke took charge and take Fletcher out of the coaching set up. It is like a Board Director trying to get involved in the day to day running of a company.
https://www.skysports.com/football/...still-struggling-to-fulfil-his-true-potential
Neville on Martial
"What drives me crazy about him is his off the ball work," Neville said on Monday Night Football. "I'm not talking about his defending, forget his defending. I've gone past the point of wide players generally coming back and doubling up and all that. What do they do going forward?
"The best players I played against as a right-back were better off the ball than they were on it. The runs in behind you, in between centre-back and full-back, were difficult to play against.
"The best players I played against they caught me. So as I was looking to see where the player was the minute I looked back towards the ball they would be gone.
"Martial doesn't get that. He doesn't know where to be and when to run at the right time. He hasn't got any timing in his off the ball runs. What Martial tends to do is wait and wait and hangs wide. He needs to change that.
"The difference between him scoring 10 to 12 goals a season and 20 is that movement off the ball. He very rarely does it off the ball. He very rarely makes that hurt run that really damages a team. It's a tough run to make and you don't always get it. He doesn't quite know when to run or where to run. He doesn't quite understand the game.
"I looked at his physical stats there and, again, I got the shock of my life. and I got to the point where I thought that's why Deschamps and Jose don't fancy you."
Gary Neville is wrong. He gets picked for France, when he plays regularly for his club. Martial came to United as a raw player and Jose instead of coaching him, threw him under the bus.
Then we had terrible coaches after him. I would say Martial is a very talented player who needed good coaching. You are not going to turn him into a poacher or CF. He is what he is and in this would be extremely useful.
Whether he wants to buckle down and get on with it is a different question.
Then we had terrible coaches after him. I would say Martial is a very talented player who needed good coaching. You are not going to turn him into a poacher or CF. He is what he is and in this would be extremely useful.
Whether he wants to buckle down and get on with it is a different question.
Yeah I did object to the France bit as he usually gets picked when he starts for us. I see him playing for Lyon or Stuttgart or someone like that
You mistake me for someone who's opinion is going to change because of what Neville said.
and the Sky sports running stats?
The last game I remember him playing was against Everton, where he scored, I'm sure I'm probably missing 1 or 2 since then but he's definitely not been given the same treatment as other forwards. There are pretty clearly favourites at the club and it must be very frustrating for others when these players are serving up total shit. The only reason anyone is calling for him to get game time is because every other forward we have has been hilariously bad, otherwise nobody would care.
It's not like Martial or Rashford haven't had good seasons since LvG left.
Stats without context are useless, I know Martial isn't the most active off-the-ball runner (i've already said this), but that isn't the only way to determines someone's quality or footballing ability, which is what my original point was about.
And often times, those who do run around excessively often don't have as much productivity, efficiency or quality when it matters most. The best players make it work hand-in-hand, but again different play styles bring out different people's ability.
That's one way to look at it, alternatively we have no idea how he's training or what's going on behind the scenes. The fact he wants out when a new manager has just came in says a lot imo, feels like he's given up.
No idea who you are or why you're gatekeeping this thread but Martial is about to be sold and Rashford is going no where so I'd say those 'takes' are quite accurate, and for what it's worth, I've been equally as critical of Rashford's recent performances. You guys have a strange obsession with defending Martial but don't have any performances to fall back on so now you're giving me shit, like it's my fault. It's funny really.
This is one thing that’s very noticeable, a lot of the biggest critics of Martial seem to be Rashford’s biggest fans in here and often vice versa. It’s like people are stuck in the mindset that they’re competing for one place in the side, like when Mourinho managed us and because of that they can’t appreciate one without slating the other. I guarantee @crossy1686 has barely said a word about Rashford’s poor form recently, except to have a go at people criticising him.
I think the biggest issue that some players seems to be favoured by the manager and some aren't. Most of the time out of favour seems to be the foreign players. Martial has also been out of sorts but I felt in his last game he was turning around a corner. Yes asking for a transfer seems an odd one but we do not what has gone on behind the scenes. He may have been absolutely fed up.
The Rashford comparison comes because Rashford never gets dropped no matter how bad he is while Martial has always been under scrutiny especially by the media.
The Rashford comparison comes because Rashford never gets dropped no matter how bad he is while Martial has always been under scrutiny especially by the media.
He rang in sick after the Everton game and then when he came back he put in a complete shit show against Watford. Then he called in sick again and then he asked for a transfer. The idea he hasn’t been given chances is nonsense. He played about twice the number of games he deserved last season.
It is quite plausible that Martial and his agent have asked that he not be selected as they don't want him to be injured during the window and scupper a potential move. It is a different scenario than say with Lingard who is refusing a new deal but has been clear he is going to run his contract down and so presumably is happy to be a bit part player until he gets his payday. If no serious bids come in before the window closes it is of course possible that Anthony stays and with a World Cup coming up and the need to put himself in the window for the summer he may push to get back into the team and at that point it would be up to Ralf to decide how to proceed.
Honestly don't get not playing him right now with the way our other forwards have been playing. Am sure it's a question about how motivated he'd be but, it's a simple enough solution. He's been told we will entertain an offer that is good for the club - how does that happen, go out there, perform really well, work your ass off out there, show any suitors out there what you are worth and see who comes for you. You win by getting wish to leave and club gets good performances.
I don't know how many times Greenwood got brushed off in game against Villa and Rashford on the left can't seem to go past a player and visually mood wise is just as "lazy" as anything Martial shows. At least we might get a player who will pass the ball and hold it up better for a few games instead.
I don't know how many times Greenwood got brushed off in game against Villa and Rashford on the left can't seem to go past a player and visually mood wise is just as "lazy" as anything Martial shows. At least we might get a player who will pass the ball and hold it up better for a few games instead.
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