If only that were true!
Antisemitism & Islamophobia
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
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I'll probably get the same blanking from you as I did the OP when I asked him the same question....but what would you class it when Israeli politicians call for/ plan for an Israel from the river to the sea? Even ones in cabinet?
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The bold. NO. It said what it said. It was a try like it is today, but not successful. A try is not a solution, or a "pretty good job". A failed attempt is failed no matter what while is still a try. That is my point regarding Islamophobia. It is not an ignored problem, it is a at least "lets talk about it" problem.
There is no such equivalence for antisemitism. And the results we are seeing today. "From the river to the balls..." people are screaming for the complete destruction of a state.
The west isn't an actual thing. You would have to break it down country by country to see how each are dealing with the issue.
This is a very important question. The answer is one of the if the the biggest hate in the states history for the political government. The government of today is so isolated that it could not get any traction from anyone except from the extreme (Israel like all nations has it's crazy people). The Israel gov of today is at major conflict with the majority of the educated population, and it will fall.
Can't speak for the rest of Europe but antisemitism has at least been highlighted as a big issue in the UK for a fair while now. In 2016 the government updated its definitions of what constitutes antisemitism to be in line with the IHRA and prosecutes on that basis. We had an entire public investigation, governmental report and purge of a political party off the back of it. Antisemitism is pretty constantly in the news here, and has been for a while. So while it's right to say that antisemitism is a big problem it's not fair to say that it hasn't been brought to the public - at least not here.
That's not really true though. There was the report into anti-Semitism by the Equality and Human Rights Commission into anti-Semitism in the Labour party and as @Kaos has said there has been a pledge by government to support Jewish communities.
It's just disingenuous to state that anti-Semitism isn't at least spoken about in the UK at least.
It is a massive problem here though. Jews are more than 5 times as likely to be the victim of hate crime as anyone else, Muslims included:
https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-8537/CBP-8537.pdf (pg 28)
https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-8537/CBP-8537.pdf (pg 28)
Edit: Quoted wrong person, apologies.
To answer your question - I'm focusing on the UK because that's my where I am. Anti-semitism is at an increase here, but I do feel it is being taken seriously at the governmental level, with laws being passed in regards to the IHRA definition, millions being pledged to protect communities, and political parties immediately suspending any member who they deem to have made anti-semitic sentiments. My point is nothing of the like has been offered for tackling Islamophobia bar the odd lip service from an obliging Politician.
And yet it is the government in power and the government voted in, literally less than 1 year ago. The 'isolated' government contains the most voted for party, the 3rd most voted for party , 5th and 6th most voted for party. Between all the parties, they represent over half of the voting population. The literal PM, the person in charge of the country for most of this century, went to the UN with an Israel from the river to the sea.
It will fall, just as the majority of Israeli governments do. Not because they only represent a fringe minority though, as much as people like to pretend otherwise.
The anti-semites and islamophobes are massive twats.
that's a shocking statisticIt is a massive problem here though. Jews are more than 5 times as likely to be the victim of hate crime as anyone else, Muslims included:
https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-8537/CBP-8537.pdf (pg 28)
also amazed by the fact there were 209 religious hate crime against people with no religion
And this should be the sentiment to double down on. His obsession with downplaying one to attenuate the other is bizarre.
What do people think about the controversy in US over the slogan - "From the River to the Sea Palestine Will be Free:" Jews / Israel supporters consider this as a call for Israel's destruction all together and consider it anti-Semitic. Palestinian supporters term it as a freedom slogan.
By creating a society where the freedom for religion is written in the law, many times in the constitution. Where crimes are defined for all the same. You can not do a "religious" crime in the West, you can only do a secular, rational crime; if you do, you are responsible full stop. The west gives freedom for religion as much as it gives freedom from religion.
That hasn't answered the question at all, you've just described Western democratic society in a nutshell. What you haven't answered is how specifically Islamophobia is being taken seriously as you claim, despite the evidence proving the contrary.
Give over. Jews are white. They can blend. They hardly have it worse than any coloured race.
I was being flippant, but yes, see other numbers in the thread. The amount of racism against jews per capita is well beyond any other group. And that is not in any way downplaying any other form of racism, each incident is equally important.
Its a slogan both sides have used, and depending on who you ask has different connotations.
Personally I don't like it at all as a slogan because of the macabre conclusions one can draw from it.
Are they now?
They have much in common with Palestinians genetically. Are they white?
Almost half of Israeli jews are mizrahi, ie via north africa and middle east. Are they white?
I thought it would be bad but had no idea it would be that bad. And I imagine this statistic is only going to look worse after this year. I wonder if it's the same over here or other Western European countries. It's pretty appalling and shocking in any case.It is a massive problem here though. Jews are more than 5 times as likely to be the victim of hate crime as anyone else, Muslims included:
https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-8537/CBP-8537.pdf (pg 28)
I shouldn't laugh because none of this is a laughing matter, but yes that last stat surprised me as well.
As an atheist/agnostic (don't really know what to call myself), I wouldn't even know what a religious hate crime against me could look like.Jews are in a unique predicament in that they get hate from both the left and the right, as well as from various Muslim groups.It is a massive problem here though. Jews are more than 5 times as likely to be the victim of hate crime as anyone else, Muslims included:
https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-8537/CBP-8537.pdf (pg 28)
Wrong. A lot of them are because they moved to Europe from times gone by. The color of the "jew" is not white, it is "brown"; just like Jesus.
Someone beating the living shit out of you because you refuse to profess your faith in the One True God.
It’s definitely an issue, but even then it’s still way behind the number of offences against Muslims and we we just told Islamaphobia doesn’t exist in the West anymore.It is a massive problem here though. Jews are more than 5 times as likely to be the victim of hate crime as anyone else, Muslims included:
https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-8537/CBP-8537.pdf (pg 28)
Also I wonder if that all takes into account the coloured racist attacks Muslims are likely to face as well.
Look at rate per 100k though. The population difference is massive so absolute numbers don't paint the full picture.
How would you even begin to target an agonostic/atheist person to be at the receiving end of a religious hate crime. Unless you're pulling a @Mockney special - 'Gods a cnut' quite publicly and vividly, I find it hard to imagine myselfI shouldn't laugh because none of this is a laughing matter, but yes that last stat surprised me as well.
I don't think it's helpful to say one is worse than the other when both are not dealt with to an adequate standard. Both need a more immediate response than is currently being given.
Yeah I get it that’s why I said it’s an issue. But there’s a wider picture with Muslims as attacks are likely to also be motivated by race which I don’t think gets factored in here.
Add on the fact that casual islamaphobia is a part of Tory policy then I don’t think you can say it’s all sorted which was my point. 6 out of 10 Tory members see Islam as a threat, that won’t be factored in the above.
Hitler didn't see it that way
I'm glad the police are taking any potential support for Hamas seriously, at least at uni they've been very visible at the protests. The University has also had to warn students that any support for a terrorist group is considered a criminal offence. However I've not seen any abuse from either side - although I've also not seem Israeli or Jewish presence which is understandable given the popularity of the plight of Palestine at Universities.
The thread isn't about skin pigmentation, its about religious and ethnic background.
I think context is key, as different proponents of the phrase can mean different things. Unfortunately context gets lost when we try to impose clearly defined categories in these cases.
Incredible how many people not only believe this is true, but fail to catch the sinister undertones of “blending in” for safety.
Zionists made people think a blue octopus toy was anti-semitic, they'll pull anything into that category if you fall into their ridiculous demands.
Yeah, that's a fair point. It probably is difficult to ascertain whether or not an attack on an Asian person is primarily based on race or religion. I'd guess without explicit mention of the latter it might well be categorised under the former. The number of recorded racist hate crimes dwarfs the number of religious hate crimes too.
As far as I can see it's both. Obviously it demands the release of Palestinians from the yoke of Israeli oppression but what realisation of the chant isn't a one state solution that results in the dissolution of Israel?
Who are these 'zionists'? Most 'zionists' probably never thought about it or cared about it. Still though - zionists, eh.
In relation to "From the river to the sea..." Anwar El Ghazi is getting his Mainz contract terminated for the below (now deleted) post:
The slogan taken in isolation from Hamas or whomever can certainly be deciphered as looking for the destruction of Israel and let's be honest that is how it is being pushed.
However, and this is something that has to be considered, is the history of the phrase/slogan.
I have posted sources on the main thread.
The slogan was first used by Zionists way before even before the World war 2.
It then became a slogan for the Likud party, Netanyahu if you will.
Hamas used it and not excusing any actions since their being formed, it was a response to the right wingers of Israel.
History is important.
Incidentally, not to use it as some form of excuse etc for actions/crimes committed. If anyone is interested I can explain the "real" background/meaning/explanation of the bit uses by Hamas about the war between Jews and Muslims and the whole there's a Jew behind this rock etc. It doesn't quite mean what people have taken it for and I was considering posting it on the main thread but felt it may have been a digression.
It was in response of some saying there’s no Islamophobia but antisemitism is bad. In the western world, especially Britain, brown people (of any religion) have it very very bad in some parts of the country. This is because of the media making villains of the Muslim world. So I’m not having any of Islamophobia isn’t bad.
Also look at the shaming of Qatar in the other thread to see Islamophobia. Qatar were the first country calling for a ceasefire fyi. So for all the bad things they do they are the first calling for peace. More you can say for Rishi Sunak and Biden.
It’s happening now. The evil Muslim Hamas terrorist group etc.
Skin pigmentation sadly is the first thing that is judged. Which is why anyone brown is a target of being called a p*k*
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