Argentina NT

[FootballHQ]

They dont have many CBs, thats their biggest issue. They have Rulli in goal, who is 26 i think. So perfect. Bustos will get better and should move to Europe, same for Tagliafico, who moved to Ajax in January and will get better with more experience in Europe. The problem is CB, where they only got Rojo, Funes Mori and Musacchio, who are all average. Their Cbs are all old, there is not much coming through. They have Conti and Mammana from young CBs, but they are not good enough at the moment and need to get better. That will be their problem the next years

Funes Mori used to be a regular for them before his injury. Never struck me as more than average at Everton.

Also called up Pezzella for the pre squad who's played for Betis and Fiorentina last two years. Not seen enough of him to judge his level.

Mammana was at Lyon wasn't he?

 

[Ban]

Mainly Paredes, Ascacibar and Lo Celso. I rate Ascacibar highly, very combative midfielder and should have been in the squad. Paredes is a good passer, made the wrong move from Roma to Zenit though, but he is really good at passing through the lines from deep. and Lo Celso will hopefully evolve at PSG.

Thanks. Seems to me they need a big overhaul, that's for sure.

 

[FootballHQ]

Mainly Paredes, Ascacibar and Lo Celso. I rate Ascacibar highly, very combative midfielder and should have been in the squad. Paredes is a good passer, made the wrong move from Roma to Zenit though, but he is really good at passing through the lines from deep. and Lo Celso will hopefully evolve at PSG.

Liked Paredes when he was at Roma. Would've done well if he'd moved to premier league at that point.

He's a box to box midfielder which Argentina really lacked at this tournament especially today.

 

[izec]

Tempo and ball circulation was a huge issue. All of the play that let Argentina down, more or less, was what was behind Messi and not in front. Don't get me wrong, the forward line and wide men weren't by any means exceptional, however, when the midfield and defensive players pass the ball at a pedestrian pace and don't look to pass anything with any kind of courage between the lines then you can only expect the opposition to find it easy to organise themselves.

Yep, Biglia and Mascherano are terrible, so many sloppy passing.

Funes Mori used to be a regular for them before his injury. Never struck me as more than average at Everton.

Also called up Pezzella for the pre squad who's played for Betis and Fiorentina last two years. Not seen enough of him to judge his level.

Mammana was at Lyon wasn't he?

Yes Lyon, Zenit now.

Pezzella is at Fiorentina now, but dont know much about him. They have some work to do and hope some talent comes through the next years and some players evolve to the next level

 

[FootballHQ]

BTW have a look back at page 1 of this thread from August/September 2017.

Wierd tactical formations, odd player selection. Nothing changed in a year.

 

[K2K]

Mascherano in CM says it all. Teams like England would be embarrassed to field him as a starter.

He's got 'heart'. Stupid reason to select a player.

This has been a terrible world cup. From the qualifiers even.

 

[FootballHQ]

Edit: Wrong thread.

 

[FootballHQ]

Aguero wants to continue.

Front two of him and Icardi with Dybala in number 10 position?

 

[Ecstatic]

How is it possible not to have Aguero in the starting 11?
How is it possible to ignore Dybala?
There are some great talents in this squad but what can you expect from a 34-year-old midfielder level Chinese League?
Di Maria is not a reliable player who delivers consistent performances.

Sad because the passion and talent are present in Argentina

Sampaoli = Domenech

 

[izec]

Aguero wants to continue.

Front two of him and Icardi with Dybala in number 10 position?

Depends on how he performs and injuries

 

[padr81]

Kun won't see another world cup, given his injury record and hamstrings I think his cameo today is the last we'll see of him on the biggest international stage. People will say it because I'm a City fan but the fact the guy with the best minutes per goal average in the Premier League history can't get more than 200 minutes at a WC is a shame.

This Argentina team is shite everywhere bar AM and attack but the misuse of players in those positions is ridiculous. 3-2 down, need a goal, Dybala and Higuain on the bench and they bring on Meza.
In fairness to the Argies they aren't as bad as maybe thought after the Croatia game and crazy selection but they are still poor.

 

[AndyJ1985]

Forget individuals, as a team they are garbage. Don't even understand how they are setup to play. It's a mess

 

[IFC 1905]

Forget individuals, as a team they are garbage. Don't even understand how they are setup to play. It's a mess

This is the key.


With this argentina, you put a kante and other guy close to messi when he receives it, and that's it.

We're mediocre, on a level below Portugal.


And to remind you that Dybala, Icardi, all those players have shown nothing when they were called for Argentina.



I have to say this, as much as I support Messi, I hope he retires with Argentina because we can't keep playing based on him. That's it, he's not made to win things with Argentina, at least with our FA being such a shit. If we were a little, little bit organized things would be so much better.

Apart from Messi, if our FA problems are not solved, we need to get used to be mediocre, and not expect the unexpectable.

 

[izec]

This is the key.


With this argentina, you put a kante and other guy close to messi when he receives it, and that's it.

We're mediocre, on a level below Portugal.


And to remind you that Dybala, Icardi, all those players have shown nothing when they were called for Argentina.



I have to say this, as much as I support Messi, I hope he retires with Argentina because we can't keep playing based on him. That's it, he's not made to win things with Argentina, at least with our FA being such a shit. If we were a little, little bit organized things would be so much better.

Apart from Messi, if our FA problems are not solved, we need to get used to be mediocre, and not expect the unexpectable.

Icardi and Dybala are shit if you have no plan. Icardi is useless, unless you provide him with balls and crosses. I know he missed some chances in the games he got called up, but the pressure was huge. I think Messi, Higuain and Aguero shouldnt be playing anymore, at least not after the Copa next year. Laurato, Dybala and Icardi is the way forward. Create a proper team with these players and then judge them. Plus Ascacibar, he has to play. he is the bite Argentina are missing badly in midfield. Paredes too, the only passer with Banega. These players need time to find their form for the NT, but you have to give them a proper base to shine.

 

[IFC 1905]

Icardi and Dybala are shit if you have no plan. Icardi is useless, unless you provide him with balls and crosses. I know he missed some chances in the games he got called up, but the pressure was huge. I think Messi, Higuain and Aguero shouldnt be playing anymore, at least not after the Copa next year. Laurato, Dybala and Icardi is the way forward. Create a proper team with these players and then judge them.

Yeah I think like you, we need a plan, anything. I don't know man, I'm sad not for today since I saw that the players put some effort, but I see nothing good in the future.

Thank god my club is doing things better and we can dream with the next Libertadores lol

 

[izec]

Yeah I think like you, we need a plan, anything. I don't know man, I'm sad not for today since I saw that the players put some effort, but I see nothing good in the future.

Thank god my club is doing things better and we can dream with the next Libertadores lol

They punched above their weight today with a bit of luck, but they gave it a go. The last chance was unfortunate. They entertained and played entertaining, France are just a better side individually and better coached, even if Deschamps isnt the greatest manager around.

I dont think the future is that bad. I would be surprised if they were as bad 2022 as 2018. It is sad to see so much talent going down the drain though. Another generation of talents underachieving. Argentina produced some of my favourite players ever, from Veron and Redondo to Aimar and Zanetti. I wont lie, i like Icardi, Dybala and Laurato from what i saw at Racing if i cant sleep at night and tune in for some Primera division action. Then there is Ascacibar, the small fella with a big engine in midfield. I think they have to nominate the best players and build a team around these players, a strong core of 15 players. Especially the young fellas. I think you can build a proper side with players like Rulli, Romero, Otamendi, Musacchio, Ascacibar, Tagliafico, Bustos, Paredes, Lo Celso, Martinez, Icardi, Dybala, Pavon, Correa, Lanzini. Not all of them are great players currently, but can be in a few years.

Then there are some players who can improve further and maybe surprise. Rojo needs to move on from United and play regularly. There are plenty of players who can improve really, Cervi, Salvio, Meza, Mammana and young players that we havent heard of yet (at least me) and players that stagnated now in Europe the last years. I dont think players will be an issue, maybe defence a bit, but the rest should be fine. It is to find the best tactic and formation for the best players and help them perform and win at the biggest stage. Brazil did it, Uruguay too, and almost all European top sides. You dont have to have 11 top players on each position to win. But Argentina struggle really with getting the best out of their players consistently, since i remember. Bug i hope once Leo is gone, they change and have a look at their approach to give the upcoming generation a chance to succeed

 

[Infordin]

Biglia has announced his retirement from the national team.

How that guy racked up 58 caps for Argentina I will never know. One of the biggest mysteries of our lifetime.

 

[izec]

Biglia has announced his retirement from the national team.

How that guy racked up 58 caps for Argentina I will never know. One of the biggest mysteries of our lifetime.

It helps being Messis friend

 

[NoPace]

Rumours of their demise are exaggerated. For the 2022 World cup, ages in brackets.

------------Icardi(29)-Dybala(28)
Pavon(26)-----------------J. or A.Correa(27) or Messi (35)
--------Lo Celso (26)-Ascasibar(25)
Tagliafico(29)-------------Bustos (26)
-----Mammana(26)-Musacchio/Pezella(31)

depth in the form of Lanzini (29), Paredes (27)and obviously some guys, though unfortunately mostly forwards, like Lautaro Martinez will develop into stars too.

They don't have enough depth in the back 6 but their front 4 should be more balanced than it was this year and the italicized guys look like solid enough pros. Definitely need a CB or two to step up and at least one more proper central midfielder to join the promising 2 in Lo Celso and Ascasibar.

 

[the_irish123]

Rumours of their demise are exaggerated. For the 2022 World cup, ages in brackets.

------------Icardi(29)-Dybala(28)
Pavon(26)-----------------J. or A.Correa(27) or Messi (35)
--------Lo Celso (26)-Ascasibar(25)
Tagliafico(29)-------------Bustos (26)
-----Mammana(26)-Musacchio/Pezella(31)

depth in the form of Lanzini (29), Paredes (27)and obviously some guys, though unfortunately mostly forwards, like Lautaro Martinez will develop into stars too.

They don't have enough depth in the back 6 but their front 4 should be more balanced than it was this year and the italicized guys look like solid enough pros. Definitely need a CB or two to step up and at least one more proper central midfielder to join the promising 2 in Lo Celso and Ascasibar.

That team is pretty far from World Champion quality.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Rumours of their demise are exaggerated. For the 2022 World cup, ages in brackets.

------------Icardi(29)-Dybala(28)
Pavon(26)-----------------J. or A.Correa(27) or Messi (35)
--------Lo Celso (26)-Ascasibar(25)
Tagliafico(29)-------------Bustos (26)
-----Mammana(26)-Musacchio/Pezella(31)

depth in the form of Lanzini (29), Paredes (27)and obviously some guys, though unfortunately mostly forwards, like Lautaro Martinez will develop into stars too.

They don't have enough depth in the back 6 but their front 4 should be more balanced than it was this year and the italicized guys look like solid enough pros. Definitely need a CB or two to step up and at least one more proper central midfielder to join the promising 2 in Lo Celso and Ascasibar.

Back 5/6 is average.

For me, Argentina is a lot of average players mixed with a few brilliant attackers to form a terrible and disjointed team. They have grit at one side and individual brilliance on the other but like Manchester United the unit itself is flawed and corrupted.

It's different from 13/14 Liverpool who had a lot of decent players but played brilliant team football or even Iran/Morocco who have worse players but are a better team. In terms of the collective they're absolutely shambolic and once everyone stops seeing their supposed great individual quality and instead focus on how bad the basics are, the problem can be fixed.

 

[SCP]

Back 5/6 is average.

For me, Argentina is a lot of average players mixed with a few brilliant attackers to form a terrible and disjointed team. They have grit at one side and individual brilliance on the other but like Manchester United the unit itself is flawed and corrupted.

It's different from 13/14 Liverpool who had a lot of decent players but played brilliant team football or even Iran/Morocco who have worse players but are a better team. In terms of the collective they're absolutely shambolic and once everyone stops seeing their supposed great individual quality and instead focus on how bad the basics are, the problem can be fixed.

If their recent Under 20's WC are anything to be judged, since 2007 they don't win 1, the generation of Banega, Kun and Di Maria, after that their performances at Under 20 WC's have been awfull, sometimes they can't even qualify.

Reality is since Pekerman left their Youth teams have been shambolic to say the least, I even think Uruguay or Colombia have been working better than them.

But their clubs will always produce World Class Strikers and number 10's the problem is the rest, and now I think they are behind even on South America, of course the best coaches on South America are from Argentina, if they have enough competent people at their FA leading them they can turn things around.

 

[Treble]

4 years are a lot in football and they might have a strong team for the next WC. I'm sure there are good Argentinean players out there we haven't heard of who are going to become stars over the next 4 years. They will be better off without Messi or at least not worse. Not having Icardi and not playing Dybala was criminal. Pavon/Meza were very poor.

 

[Varun]

Forget individuals, as a team they are garbage. Don't even understand how they are setup to play. It's a mess

"We tried to do everything to help messi". - Sampaoli

 

[izec]

Still cant believe they played with Mascherano and Perez in midfield their legs have gone years ago. It wasnt necessarily the midfield that lost them the game yesterday, but they werent great. They have the players there, but not expereince. Sampaoli is clueless in selecting players and tactics. He cant replicate the Chile team at every team he manages.

 

[NoLogo]

"We tried to do everything to help messi". - Sampaoli

Looked more like they focused everything on Messi which is why they are so easy to deal with at times, take Messi out of the game and you are good.

 

[damageinc.]

Anyone knows how good is Nico Gonzalez from Argentinos Jrs.? Late rumours about him going to Inter (and then on loan to Cagliari).

 

[izec]

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[Hernandez - BFA]

Any quotes from Messi post France game?
I'm sure he'd have been asked about his future.

WC 2022 is questionable but I hope he has one more crack at the Copa America.

 

[FootballHQ]

Any quotes from Messi post France game?
I'm sure he'd have been asked about his future.

WC 2022 is questionable but I hope he has one more crack at the Copa America.

Next summer is on Brazil's turf so they'll be big favourites to win.

Even in 2014 with their mediocre side they still knocked out excellent sides like Chile and Colombia.

 

[IFC 1905]

Anyone knows how good is Nico Gonzalez from Argentinos Jrs.? Late rumours about him going to Inter (and then on loan to Cagliari).

I spoke to an Argentinos Juniors fan and he told me the guy is a star, and will be a future NT player. His natural position is wing (I assume left wing) but he played a lot as 10 and 9.

 

[Revan]

Aguero wants to continue.

Front two of him and Icardi with Dybala in number 10 position?

Would prefer Icardi as striker with Dybala behind him, and Messi on the right side. Left side should be up for grabs. I think that Dybala and Icardi have earned the right to start for Argentina, after the other players have consistently underperfomed (although Kun was decent in this world cup, his first ever non shit tournament).

 

[Revan]

That team is pretty far from World Champion quality.

4 years is a lot of time though. And it is Argentina, so it is inevitable that some young talents will come on stage.

 

[Ecstatic]

This is the key.


With this argentina, you put a kante and other guy close to messi when he receives it, and that's it.

We're mediocre, on a level below Portugal.


And to remind you that Dybala, Icardi, all those players have shown nothing when they were called for Argentina.



I have to say this, as much as I support Messi, I hope he retires with Argentina because we can't keep playing based on him. That's it, he's not made to win things with Argentina, at least with our FA being such a shit. If we were a little, little bit organized things would be so much better.

Apart from Messi, if our FA problems are not solved, we need to get used to be mediocre, and not expect the unexpectable.

What are the reasons? Not good enough? Not the right tactical system?

 

[IFC 1905]

What are the reasons? Not good enough? Not the right tactical system?

I guess they couldn't suppor the pressure

 

[Avatar]

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40 years of corruption!!

 

[Ecstatic]

I guess they couldn't suppor the pressure

Thanks for the answer

 

[SharpshooterTom]

Potential international tournaments remaining for Messi:

Copa America 2019 (hosts Brazil)
Copa America 2020 (not confirmed yet - hosts are North & South America Combined)
World Cup 2022 (hosts Qatar)
Copa America 2024 (hosts Ecaudor)

If he plays on and has some longevity obtaining at least one Copa is still a realistic prospect for him.

 

[Schneckerl]

Potential international tournaments remaining for Messi:

Copa America 2019 (hosts Brazil)
Copa America 2020 (not confirmed yet - hosts are North & South America Combined)
World Cup 2022 (hosts Qatar)
Copa America 2024 (hosts Ecaudor)

If he plays on and has some longevity obtaining at least one Copa is still a realistic prospect for him.

Why are Copa Americas hosted in random years?

 

[FootballHQ]

It's always been every four years since 2001.

There was a special 100th birthday one in US in 2016 hence it was played 2015 and that year.

I believe they want to change it so it's played in same summer as euros so 2020 will be first new date that will start the 4 year cycle.