But it is not. Lewandowski broke a 50 year old record that was deemed untouchable.
And Bayern have been dominant for decades while almost always fielding top strikers (Rummenigge, Papin, Klinsmann, Makay, Elber et al.). However none of those players came close to doing what Lewandowski did.
The only argument against Lews is that the Bundesliga is ranked behind with the Premier League and Serie A, and he has the bad fortune of playing for a bad national team. Personally I think the award should be handed down to the best player, not the player who happens to play fort he best team, or luck-of-the-genetical-draw national team.
Personally I think it's Messi this time around, feel free to disagree
It’s not though, Bundesliga has always been among the top leagues and have been winning lots since the 1970s, not like breaking a record from a team that came into money 10 years ago.
Only 2 players have scored more goals than that in a league season in the modern era, and that’s Messi and Ronaldo. And he did it in only 29 games. So his goal per game was better than any Ronaldo league season to date. If it was so easy, why can’t others do it? The best Mbappé has done is 33 goals in a weaker league, not 41.
If Argentina wins the Copa or Messi has a good quarters /semis / final performances, even if his team loses he will get it. If he doesnt, then i think the 5 last months of the year will actually be very decisive. Its a matter of who puts more highlight games from august-november.
Long time lurker here, finally got provoked into posting my opinion rant because my eyes bleed when I read some of the stuff in this thread.
The amount of mental gymnastics performed by some people to try and convince themselves that Lewandowski isn't really all that great, is ridiculous.
Are you honestly trying to tell me that a player who
- Scored a hattrick in a DFB Cup final vs Bayern in 2012 (that Bayern side would play a CL final just a week later)
- Famously scored four goals vs real Madrid in a CL semi-final
- Famously scored 5 in 9 (before that Bayern was losing the match 0-1 after 45 mins)
- Is third best CL scorer in history with 73 goals in 96 games with a ratio of 0.76 goals per game (the same as CR7) when most modern strikers barely get to 0.5
- Produced one of the most impressive CL performances ever with 15 goals and 6 assists in 10 games in 2019/2020
- Is the second best Bundesliga scorer with 277 goals in 350 appearances (203 in 219 for Bayern)
- Is the best scorer for his NT with 69 goals in 122 matches despite playing in a very shitty era for his country
- Broke 50 years old goalscoring record of gerd Muller and was the first BL player since 50 years to earn the European Golden Shoe
- Did the above by scoring 41 goals and assisting 7 times in 29 appearances, for 1.4 goals per game (one per 60 mins) and 1.65 contributions per game (one per 51 mins), scoring 41% of the team's goals and exceeding his expected goals by ~10 (depending which site you look at)
- Was almost unequivocally called the best player of 2020, and honestly by the end of 2021 should be two times Ballon d'Or winner (okay - the last one is my opinion, not a fact - I confess!)
is just a good/great player carried by his team or a weak league? What a coincidence!
Can you give me an example of another player, who just lucked his way into record books and football history?
Also, do you try to discredit other greats in your free time, or is this a thing you do exclusively for Lewa?
Do you, for example, think that Brazilian Ronaldo got carried to the World Cup by the Brazil side filled with stars, and then got swiftly exposed in Europe (hence his poor scoring record in UEFA competitions)? No? Why not?
Also, it always bothered me, who exactly are those great providers that carry Lewandowski at Bayern? I always hear that they're there, but their names are never mentioned. I must have missed the time, when prime Xavi, Iniesta, Neymar and Suarez played with Lewandowski. Oh wait! They actually played with the other guy! The short one.
In a similar fashion people often say that Lewandowski benefits from playing in a very strong Bayern squad, but mysteriously, when people get asked, what are the best squads of all time, 2014-2020 Bayern never gets mentioned. In fact, even when asked about this decade, people will usually say that Barcelona and Real Madrid were better. A lot of people will often say, that Bayern with Lewandowski wasn't even the best Bayern of this decade. That would be, according to them, 2013 Bayern.
So is 2014-2020 Bayern that good, or is that a lie? It can only be one - you can't have a cookie and eat it too. You can't just shift your opinion depending on what fits your current agenda.
Then there's the issue of a weak league. Man, I don't even know where to start with this one. Let me ask some questions here.
- In what way is 2021 La Liga better than 2021 Bundesliga?
- How is it possible that in a one horse race Bayern won the BL roughly at the same time as City won the EPL?
- How is this possible, that City conceded 32 goals in 38 games, but Bayern conceded 44 goals in 34 matches?
- How is it possible that a player (Aubameyang) leaves Bundesliga and then becomes the best scorer in EPL while playing for Arsenal?
- How is it possible that 2013 Bayern won the league with 25 points ahead, after just 28 matchdays, and none of their players managed to dominate in terms of goals scored the way Lewandowski does (in fact, their best goalscorer had just 15)?
- How is it possible, that Bayern beats Tottenham 7-2 in the CL and just month later gets destroyed 1-5 by Eintracht Frankfurt and has their coach sacked?
- Why nobody ever dominates a "weak" league the way Lewandowski did this year (except Messi and Ronaldo)?
- Why did Haaland score 14 less goals than Lewandowski despite performing so well in the CL (and playing the same amount of minutes as Lewa in the BL)? How is this possible, that the same BVB team managed to help him more in the CL than in the "weak" Bundesliga?
Then there's the agument that Bayern is scoring a lot of goals overall. So when Bayern scores 8 goals against Barcelona, and Lewandowski only scores 1 and assists 1, then it's because he's not that good.
But if he scored four, then the argument would be that it was just a training match for him, right (one poster said something along those lines earlier in this thread)?
So it's the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" kind of situation - is it not?
Also, among those "training matches" is a match where Bayern got Davies sent-off in minute 12 and then Lewandowski bailed Bayern out with a hattrick after that.
There's also 4:3 against Hertha, where Lewandowski scored all four and without him they would inevitably lose. So yeah, not all is sunshine and rainbows at Bayern after all! A lot of those matches would actually be lost without Lewa.
As for 2021 Ballon d'Or, with all due respect to Messi and Co., I don't believe that having one good tournament (be it Copa America or Euro) is nearly enough to outweight Lewandowski's record breaking season, which will be remembered for a long time.
Of course everything may turn on it's head yet - we're only half way through 2021 after all. For now I'll stick with Lewa though.
The only argument against Lews is that the Bundesliga is ranked behind with the Premier League and Serie A, and he has the bad fortune of playing for a bad national team. Personally I think the award should be handed down to the best player, not the player who happens to play fort he best team, or luck-of-the-genetical-draw national team.
Personally I think it's Messi this time around, feel free to disagree
Not at all. I mostly agree with you since Messi for me is the best player on this planet.
But I take offense to people disregarding Lewandowski‘s achievements.
„Bad league“, „one horse race“, yadda yadda yadda… His Bundesliga season compares favorably to the best Messi and Ronaldo ever(!) achieved. And he kept up the same pace in the CL and for Poland.
Long time lurker here, finally got provoked into posting my opinion rant because my eyes bleed when I read some of the stuff in this thread.
The amount of mental gymnastics performed by some people to try and convince themselves that Lewandowski isn't really all that great, is ridiculous.
Are you honestly trying to tell me that a player who
- Scored a hattrick in a DFB Cup final vs Bayern in 2012 (that Bayern side would play a CL final just a week later)
- Famously scored four goals vs real Madrid in a CL semi-final
- Famously scored 5 in 9 (before that Bayern was losing the match 0-1 after 45 mins)
- Is third best CL scorer in history with 73 goals in 96 games with a ratio of 0.76 goals per game (the same as CR7) when most modern strikers barely get to 0.5
- Produced one of the most impressive CL performances ever with 15 goals and 6 assists in 10 games in 2019/2020
- Is the second best Bundesliga scorer with 277 goals in 350 appearances (203 in 219 for Bayern)
- Is the best scorer for his NT with 69 goals in 122 matches despite playing in a very shitty era for his country
- Broke 50 years old goalscoring record of gerd Muller and was the first BL player since 50 years to earn the European Golden Shoe
- Did the above by scoring 41 goals and assisting 7 times in 29 appearances, for 1.4 goals per game (one per 60 mins) and 1.65 contributions per game (one per 51 mins), scoring 41% of the team's goals and exceeding his expected goals by ~10 (depending which site you look at)
- Was almost unequivocally called the best player of 2020, and honestly by the end of 2021 should be two times Ballon d'Or winner (okay - the last one is my opinion, not a fact - I confess!)
is just a good/great player carried by his team or a weak league? What a coincidence!
Can you give me an example of another player, who just lucked his way into record books and football history?
Also, do you try to discredit other greats in your free time, or is this a thing you do exclusively for Lewa?
Do you, for example, think that Brazilian Ronaldo got carried to the World Cup by the Brazil side filled with stars, and then got swiftly exposed in Europe (hence his poor scoring record in UEFA competitions)? No? Why not?
Also, it always bothered me, who exactly are those great providers that carry Lewandowski at Bayern? I always hear that they're there, but their names are never mentioned. I must have missed the time, when prime Xavi, Iniesta, Neymar and Suarez played with Lewandowski. Oh wait! They actually played with the other guy! The short one.
In a similar fashion people often say that Lewandowski benefits from playing in a very strong Bayern squad, but mysteriously, when people get asked, what are the best squads of all time, 2014-2020 Bayern never gets mentioned. In fact, even when asked about this decade, people will usually say that Barcelona and Real Madrid were better. A lot of people will often say, that Bayern with Lewandowski wasn't even the best Bayern of this decade. That would be, according to them, 2013 Bayern.
So is 2014-2020 Bayern that good, or is that a lie? It can only be one - you can't have a cookie and eat it too. You can't just shift your opinion depending on what fits your current agenda.
Then there's the issue of a weak league. Man, I don't even know where to start with this one. Let me ask some questions here.
- In what way is 2021 La Liga better than 2021 Bundesliga?
- How is it possible that in a one horse race Bayern won the BL roughly at the same time as City won the EPL?
- How is this possible, that City conceded 32 goals in 38 games, but Bayern conceded 44 goals in 34 matches?
- How is it possible that a player (Aubameyang) leaves Bundesliga and then becomes the best scorer in EPL while playing for Arsenal?
- How is it possible that 2013 Bayern won the league with 25 points ahead, after just 28 matchdays, and none of their players managed to dominate in terms of goals scored the way Lewandowski does (in fact, their best goalscorer had just 15)?
- How is it possible, that Bayern beats Tottenham 7-2 in the CL and just month later gets destroyed 1-5 by Eintracht Frankfurt and has their coach sacked?
- Why nobody ever dominates a "weak" league the way Lewandowski did this year (except Messi and Ronaldo)?
- Why did Haaland score 14 less goals than Lewandowski despite performing so well in the CL (and playing the same amount of minutes as Lewa in the BL)? How is this possible, that the same BVB team managed to help him more in the CL than in the "weak" Bundesliga?
Then there's the agument that Bayern is scoring a lot of goals overall. So when Bayern scores 8 goals against Barcelona, and Lewandowski only scores 1 and assists 1, then it's because he's not that good.
But if he scored four, then the argument would be that it was just a training match for him, right (one poster said something along those lines earlier in this thread)?
So it's the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" kind of situation - is it not?
Also, among those "training matches" is a match where Bayern got Davies sent-off in minute 12 and then Lewandowski bailed Bayern out with a hattrick after that.
There's also 4:3 against Hertha, where Lewandowski scored all four and without him they would inevitably lose. So yeah, not all is sunshine and rainbows at Bayern after all! A lot of those matches would actually be lost without Lewa.
As for 2021 Ballon d'Or, with all due respect to Messi and Co., I don't believe that having one good tournament (be it Copa America or Euro) is nearly enough to outweight Lewandowski's record breaking season, which will be remembered for a long time.
Of course everything may turn on it's head yet - we're only half way through 2021 after all. For now I'll stick with Lewa though.
Hm, it's really a tough one. I'd say Messi has enough Ballon D'ors, as does Ronaldo. They haven't done enough 2021 - but you never know with football politics - and some should have gone to others (Sneijder 2010, Xavi/Iniesta 2012, Ribéry 2013, van Dijk 2019, Lewandowski 2020-covid). Perhaps Neymar/Suarez 2015 and Di Maria/Ramos/Xabi Alonso 2014.
You could award it to
- Lewandowski for his performances in 2021 + being robbed 2020.
- Neymar being a global brand (and potentially winning the Copa America)
- Chiellini for his lifetime achievements (and potentially winning the Euros)
It's a damn shame Neuer, Ramos, Suarez, Ibrahimovic never won and probably never will. It would be an injustice if Neymar, Chiellini or Lewandowski joins these greats on an unfortunate nearly missed out list.
Haaland and Mbappe have time and neither won anything noteworthy so the heirs have to wait.
If Belgium win the Euros, then Lukaku has to be in with a shout as also won the league with Inter. No way do i think hes in the top three players in europe, but its been an odd season and there arent really that many standout candidates.
Long time lurker here, finally got provoked into posting my opinion rant because my eyes bleed when I read some of the stuff in this thread.
The amount of mental gymnastics performed by some people to try and convince themselves that Lewandowski isn't really all that great, is ridiculous.
Are you honestly trying to tell me that a player who
- Scored a hattrick in a DFB Cup final vs Bayern in 2012 (that Bayern side would play a CL final just a week later)
- Famously scored four goals vs real Madrid in a CL semi-final
- Famously scored 5 in 9 (before that Bayern was losing the match 0-1 after 45 mins)
- Is third best CL scorer in history with 73 goals in 96 games with a ratio of 0.76 goals per game (the same as CR7) when most modern strikers barely get to 0.5
- Produced one of the most impressive CL performances ever with 15 goals and 6 assists in 10 games in 2019/2020
- Is the second best Bundesliga scorer with 277 goals in 350 appearances (203 in 219 for Bayern)
- Is the best scorer for his NT with 69 goals in 122 matches despite playing in a very shitty era for his country
- Broke 50 years old goalscoring record of gerd Muller and was the first BL player since 50 years to earn the European Golden Shoe
- Did the above by scoring 41 goals and assisting 7 times in 29 appearances, for 1.4 goals per game (one per 60 mins) and 1.65 contributions per game (one per 51 mins), scoring 41% of the team's goals and exceeding his expected goals by ~10 (depending which site you look at)
- Was almost unequivocally called the best player of 2020, and honestly by the end of 2021 should be two times Ballon d'Or winner (okay - the last one is my opinion, not a fact - I confess!)
is just a good/great player carried by his team or a weak league? What a coincidence!
Can you give me an example of another player, who just lucked his way into record books and football history?
Also, do you try to discredit other greats in your free time, or is this a thing you do exclusively for Lewa?
Do you, for example, think that Brazilian Ronaldo got carried to the World Cup by the Brazil side filled with stars, and then got swiftly exposed in Europe (hence his poor scoring record in UEFA competitions)? No? Why not?
Also, it always bothered me, who exactly are those great providers that carry Lewandowski at Bayern? I always hear that they're there, but their names are never mentioned. I must have missed the time, when prime Xavi, Iniesta, Neymar and Suarez played with Lewandowski. Oh wait! They actually played with the other guy! The short one.
In a similar fashion people often say that Lewandowski benefits from playing in a very strong Bayern squad, but mysteriously, when people get asked, what are the best squads of all time, 2014-2020 Bayern never gets mentioned. In fact, even when asked about this decade, people will usually say that Barcelona and Real Madrid were better. A lot of people will often say, that Bayern with Lewandowski wasn't even the best Bayern of this decade. That would be, according to them, 2013 Bayern.
So is 2014-2020 Bayern that good, or is that a lie? It can only be one - you can't have a cookie and eat it too. You can't just shift your opinion depending on what fits your current agenda.
Then there's the issue of a weak league. Man, I don't even know where to start with this one. Let me ask some questions here.
- In what way is 2021 La Liga better than 2021 Bundesliga?
- How is it possible that in a one horse race Bayern won the BL roughly at the same time as City won the EPL?
- How is this possible, that City conceded 32 goals in 38 games, but Bayern conceded 44 goals in 34 matches?
- How is it possible that a player (Aubameyang) leaves Bundesliga and then becomes the best scorer in EPL while playing for Arsenal?
- How is it possible that 2013 Bayern won the league with 25 points ahead, after just 28 matchdays, and none of their players managed to dominate in terms of goals scored the way Lewandowski does (in fact, their best goalscorer had just 15)?
- How is it possible, that Bayern beats Tottenham 7-2 in the CL and just month later gets destroyed 1-5 by Eintracht Frankfurt and has their coach sacked?
- Why nobody ever dominates a "weak" league the way Lewandowski did this year (except Messi and Ronaldo)?
- Why did Haaland score 14 less goals than Lewandowski despite performing so well in the CL (and playing the same amount of minutes as Lewa in the BL)? How is this possible, that the same BVB team managed to help him more in the CL than in the "weak" Bundesliga?
Then there's the agument that Bayern is scoring a lot of goals overall. So when Bayern scores 8 goals against Barcelona, and Lewandowski only scores 1 and assists 1, then it's because he's not that good.
But if he scored four, then the argument would be that it was just a training match for him, right (one poster said something along those lines earlier in this thread)?
So it's the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" kind of situation - is it not?
Also, among those "training matches" is a match where Bayern got Davies sent-off in minute 12 and then Lewandowski bailed Bayern out with a hattrick after that.
There's also 4:3 against Hertha, where Lewandowski scored all four and without him they would inevitably lose. So yeah, not all is sunshine and rainbows at Bayern after all! A lot of those matches would actually be lost without Lewa.
As for 2021 Ballon d'Or, with all due respect to Messi and Co., I don't believe that having one good tournament (be it Copa America or Euro) is nearly enough to outweight Lewandowski's record breaking season, which will be remembered for a long time.
Of course everything may turn on it's head yet - we're only half way through 2021 after all. For now I'll stick with Lewa though.
Lewandowski is great, but he's playing in a one horse league. Bayern is poaching all the good talent the league has. Not a knock on Bayern, but its just a fact.
And Messi didnt "Just have 1 good tournament". He's the highest rated player of the year so far, has the most MOTM's so far (more than double that Lewandowski has), has same numbers of goals and more assists than Lewa on the year so far. He has more dribbles and passes created too.
Again, Lewa is a great player, an all time great striker if you ask me, but hes simply competing with a GOAT who played at a really high level so far in 2021. If Messi wins the Copa America then Lewa has no chance, if he doesnt win it then probably august-november will be the deciding factor
It’s not though, Bundesliga has always been among the top leagues and have been winning lots since the 1970s, not like breaking a record from a team that came into money 10 years ago.
Only 2 players have scored more goals than that in a league season in the modern era, and that’s Messi and Ronaldo. And he did it in only 29 games. So his goal per game was better than any Ronaldo league season to date. If it was so easy, why can’t others do it? The best Mbappé has done is 33 goals in a weaker league, not 41.
When it comes to goals, yes, however, when you combine goals and assists for a single season, he is still behind Ronaldos most productive season(s) when we look at minutes played, nevermind Messi.
Taking nothing away from his achievments, its either him or Messi for the Ballon Dor imo.
Hm, it's really a tough one. I'd say Messi has enough Ballon D'ors, as does Ronaldo. They haven't done enough 2021 - but you never know with football politics - and some should have gone to others (Sneijder 2010, Xavi/Iniesta 2012, Ribéry 2013, van Dijk 2019, Lewandowski 2020-covid). Perhaps Neymar/Suarez 2015 and Di Maria/Ramos/Xabi Alonso 2014.
You could award it to
- Lewandowski for his performances in 2021 + being robbed 2020.
- Neymar being a global brand (and potentially winning the Copa America)
- Chiellini for his lifetime achievements (and potentially winning the Euros)
It's a damn shame Neuer, Ramos, Suarez, Ibrahimovic never won and probably never will. It would be an injustice if Neymar, Chiellini or Lewandowski joins these greats on an unfortunate nearly missed out list.
Haaland and Mbappe have time and neither won anything noteworthy so the heirs have to wait.
Kane deserved one thing that is biggest bottle job against dynamo Zagreb. . If england win euro it's not because kane but sterling scored three important goals to make england progress. I will surely put sterling above kane to get the best player award if england finished euro as champions.
If Belgium win the Euros, then Lukaku has to be in with a shout as also won the league with Inter. No way do i think hes in the top three players in europe, but its been an odd season and there arent really that many standout candidates.
Euros will have an effect on balon dor, not as much as a world cup does. Cannavaro won balon dor off the back of his performances for italy when they won the world cup.
Sometimes i think balon dor ends up as a popularity contest rather than one based on achievements and playing consistently at a exceptional level throughout the season.
In my opinion Kante should win in it. He was absolutely instrumental in winning Chelsea the biggest price there is and his skill set is unique, there's not been a player like him before. Furthermore he comes across as someone who does the right thing off the field, perfect role model for generations to come.
Kane deserved one thing that is biggest bottle job against dynamo Zagreb. . If england win euro it's not because kane but sterling scored three important goals to make england progress. I will surely put sterling above kane to get the best player award if england finished euro as champions.
I agreed these awards shouldnt just depend on one competition. Kane had better season over all as a goal scorer but he failed two important occasions one against dynamo Zagreb another against man City in cup final. So I just don't take kane serious contender for balon dor even if he won euro. championship.
I agreed these awards shouldnt just depend on one competition. Kane had better season over all as a goal scorer but he failed two important occasions one against dynamo Zagreb another against man City in cup final. So I just don't take kane serious contender for balon dor even if he won euro. championship.
Saying Kane failed in important games so don't deserve will bring the discussion back to "whoever wins the cup, player from that team should get award".
Whole French team failed when it mattered most, same with Germany, Portugal.
In my opinion Kante should win in it. He was absolutely instrumental in winning Chelsea the biggest price there is and his skill set is unique, there's not been a player like him before. Furthermore he comes across as someone who does the right thing off the field, perfect role model for generations to come.
Kind of disagree. No doubt that Kante was instrumental to Chelsea's CL succes but he simply hasnt been the worlds best player in 2021. For me the award should always go to the best individual and its still lewandowski and Messi in that order.
Euros will have an effect on balon dor, not as much as a world cup does. Cannavaro won balon dor off the back of his performances for italy when they won the world cup.
Sometimes i think balon dor ends up as a popularity contest rather than one based on achievements and playing consistently at a exceptional level throughout the season.
However balon dor should be based on achievements in a season. Look at snjeider in 2011 or 2012. Robbed of balon dor, key player in inter side who did an unprecedented treble for an italian club and got to the wc final with holland. Was on fire and deserving of the award. Didnt happen.
They were both played in 2011 but Messi still won the CDR in 2012, so your original point is still invalid. Ronaldo is the only player in the 21st century to win the Ballon D’Or without winning a major team trophy.
Yes i think if messi wins the copa hes clear favourite
would that make it 7-5 aginst ronaldo... and he would have won an international tournament (and played in the final) ... I think the ronaldo vs messi thread would meltdown if that happens
. If england win euro it's not because kane but sterling scored three important goals to make england progress. I will surely put sterling above kane to get the best player award if england finished euro as champions.
