I think people are just sick of Messi winning it. If any other player had his season and World Cup, people probably wouldn't even blink at giving the award to that player.
Ballon d'Or 2023 | Messi wins for 8th time
- Thread starter Samid
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He did not.
All those who wanted Haaland to win just give it a break.
I don’t care about his stats, the guy is not fit to lace Messi’s shoes.
Messi has done it all for 15 years and last year too, with a World Cup as his Goodbye to competitive football. Class.
Messi is just the best player ever. I can’t see how it’s not obvious for everyone who have seen him play.
I don’t care about his stats, the guy is not fit to lace Messi’s shoes.
Messi has done it all for 15 years and last year too, with a World Cup as his Goodbye to competitive football. Class.
Messi is just the best player ever. I can’t see how it’s not obvious for everyone who have seen him play.
I mean it’s hard not to notice that a lot of guys championing Haaland for it on Twitter and what not also happen to have avatars of (an often shirtless) Ronaldo. I’m sure that’s a coincidence! They were big fans of the idea of Van Dijk and Lewandowski winning it previously.
Well deserved, he was the catalyst for a good team, although not the best, to win the WC. He didn’t win single handily, as everyone worked for it, but he was the leader and impulse for that epic win.
He deserves it way more than Majin Buu, who’s just a poacher (although an extremely effective one) and disappearedon semis and finals of the cups his team won.
What I find pathetic is FC Negreira and some of its fans taking this as a win for them. The guy left that corrupt and abysmal institution ages ago. He is an Inter Miami player FFS.
He deserves it way more than Majin Buu, who’s just a poacher (although an extremely effective one) and disappearedon semis and finals of the cups his team won.
What I find pathetic is FC Negreira and some of its fans taking this as a win for them. The guy left that corrupt and abysmal institution ages ago. He is an Inter Miami player FFS.
Haaland clearly won the UEFA player of the year.
Why on earth would you lie about this? And you have the nerve to link a random reddit thread as if their opinions holds more weight than UEFA's, you can't be serious.
That's not where Messi won it. Messi won it because he was the best player at the World Cup, full stop. Was Benzema a better player than Messi last season? Come on.
If he had crashed out in the group stages and Mbappe won the WC then he'd win it. If this was a non-WC season then Haaland would win it, as he was the best player of a treble winning team, and no one outside Caf estheticians would care that he didn't score in 3 games (apparently City only had 3 big games last season) or can't do legovers.
Except the WC has never been the golden standard, it is an important competition but there are others.
Do you know when was the last time a WC winner won the Ballon D'Or? Cannavaro in 2006.
Fitting. The tap in merchant winning it would have been a joke.
agreed. so iniesta in 2010 has been robbed. france players in 2018 has been robbed. german players in 2010 has been robbed if they want to use world cup winner to determine ballon dor winner.
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Any competition decided by votes is always open to abuse.
Personally I would give it every year to Eric Cantona…. because he is ‘Cantona’
Personally I would give it every year to Eric Cantona…. because he is ‘Cantona’
Arguably the best player of all time finally lead his national team to the WC with Player of the Tournament performances, winning one of the most dramatic finals in living memory in the process.
That's as good a reason as any to give someone what is ultimately a silly award people care far too much about.
That's as good a reason as any to give someone what is ultimately a silly award people care far too much about.
What are you talking about? The single most prestigious tournament in the sports world that made Pele, Maradona, Cruyff, Beckenbauer, R9, Zidane, Modric and many others who they are today. What is the first thing that comes to mind when you think about those top-10 players, and GOAT trio Maradona-Pele-Messi?
Messi had a legendary performance in the WC that's why he won it. It happens rarely.
Someone mentioned Xavi 2010 WC without even knowing Xavi did not even make it to the FIFA's best official 11..
Him having such a season and still getting snubbed was worth the meltdown on blue moon earlier.
Well deserved
Winning the WC alone would not guarantee the Balon d'Or, I hope so at least. Being a difference maker at the highest stage does and should! The most legitimate claim to the award for me is not only winning the biggest trophies but deciding the biggest games at the top end. Benzema's season for Real merited that as he made the difference in the latter rounds of the CL. There wasn't a single big game last season where it looked on a knife edge only for Haaland to produce out of nowhere and win it for his team. Obviously that doesn't diminish his incredible season but it does put him below someone who did that, Messi did. it should be telling that Haaland did not even win the best player award for the CL, Rodri did.
I don't care how much you twist the argument to suit your agenda.
WC is one factor, not the only one.
Winning the WC depends on your team - or do you want to say Haaland will never be anyone because he plays for Norway?
In 2018 if Modric didn't have that second place to bout in the WC, plus the stage of his carreer, he woudln't have too much weight to his claim. Also with the two usual fellas being out of the contest (not entriely fair), his chances grew a lot.
In fact that edition has lots of points in common with this last Messi's one as some sort of extra tribute to a carreer (with Benz also had that ingredient, with R9 too) and in Modric's case even some sort of celebration of the role (like Canna in 06).
Like you've said in the past Ronaldo 2002, Zizou 98, Cannavaro 06 and further were extremely WC oriented....I trully think that there is an excess of romaticism with the WC in pure footballing terms, like we also are living in recent years an excess of weight in the CL's titles too, but the prize always was quite a mess in terms of criteria.
What happened in 2010 it's that the freak had a freak season and that the two main contenders were in his own team and didn't help that the Spanniard WC was closer to a gritty TEAM effort (bar Villa who was IMO superb, yet a a Villa, not a R9 type of player) on comparison for instance with past Euros from them were they had a more brilliant game.
In 2014, the freak also had a very good WC but in his case he would be extra penalized for not winning it and the German team was one of the best examples of the word TEAM, like they usually do, yet even more this time with the lack of some Kaiser or Lothar to spice things up but lots of fantastic footballers that take chances of each other and cancell themselves in such comparisons.
Anyway, I usually think that few times there is TOTAL clear winner in terms of season, recently France Football absolutely shyte themselves with what they did with Lewa in 2020. At the end of the day if Erling had it in terms of stats and achieves would have been beyond ok too.
PD: joking a bit, that vid when Erling won the Puskas must have been some of the ugliest comps I've ever seen
, it would have been better to put just some sort of chart with his extraordinary numbers. After it they had like 10 minutes talking about the importance of positioning, was a bit cringe...I love the fella anyway, he is smart and likeable as they come, I hope he wins it some time and I found TRULLY bollocks the whole complain about his dip in form in the last segment of the season, more related to goals, HE was a vital part during the season to make posible arriving to those later stages and win the whole stuff.
PD2: In pure footballing terms and titles I think that Rodri had a PERFECT season, he just lacked Spain to be more solid and overall the team had a better tournament, he even excelled as a CB in the WC, extraordinary footballer, too much competition in his own side and of a Genius leaving his best years in a high note for him to grab it.
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Haaland will win it if he achieves a similar season to last and no one else produces match winning performances at the top end of the biggest competitions. Or if he himself does win games for his team being the difference maker at the latter stages of the CL. It's not really that complicated.
Agenda? imagine belittling WC saying "it has never been the gold standard" which is pure BS and accusing others of having a certain agenda.
But at least you admitted that it is an important tournament, thanks for your support for the WC
Are you from Portugal? Oh, yes, you are, now your agenda makes a lot of sense..
In 2010 the main contender was the guy that won a treble with Inter (with an iconic victory over Barcelona) and reached the final of the WC?
In 2014 Ronaldo had an absurd CL level that's why he won.
It has never been the gold standard. I said it again, now try to understand what it means.Agenda? imagine belittling WC saying "it has never been the gold standard" which is pure BS and accusing others of having a certain agenda.
But at least you admitted that it is an important tournament, thanks for your support for the WC
Are you from Portugal? Oh, yes, you are, now your agenda makes a lot of sense..
Actually nevermind, I don't care, I'll close the lid of your echo chamber and leave you to your musings.
Man, I was talking about your opinion that the WCs lost their importance for the prize since 06, it's not the case, it's just that like the examples I've mentioned many circumstances didn't help WCs winners and in others like Modric even not winning it certainly helped his cause
regarding your post:
In 2010 the main claim was for various reasons for Xavi and Iniesta, since they actually won it and won the same as Messi, yet being in the same team with messi being too much Messi fecked their chances.And like I've said before I was talking in relation to the whole WCs importance.
In any case I don't even think that Wesley was the best player for Holland nor Inter and in any case that year the most ridiculous thing in terms of recognition was Milito not even being in contention.
In 2014 yes, since Messi didn't won the WC, since the ones that won it didn't have a singular stellar figure bar Neuer (and GKs are hardly being awarded, same happened to Courtouis), this made it easier for CR to won the whole thing having an excellent season without a WC, yet this didn't mean that the WC didn't have any weight, just that the circumstances and the type of players that won the WC aren't the typical targets of this prize.
There is no truly gold standard historically, it changes, yet the most typical one have always been the WC.
In fact the whole CLs is quite a new gold standard, lots of players won it without winning a CL in the past, nor even having the best stats.
This was more related in recent yeras with the MKT wars and club oriented press behind the two fellas than anything else, so we'l see in the future if some day they finally have a more clear criteria, but it would be difficult because at the end of the day players, coaches, press vote more with their "opinions and feelings" like we are doing here than just mere stats or titles, it's quite a mix bag.
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You can keep saying it but it won’t change the fact that the WC is the pinnacle of the sport by a distance.
Literally tens of thousands of professional players disagree with you
Yet the truth is that the whole extreme weight of the WC and the CLs recently have been quite over the top.
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Individual awards in a team sport will always remain idiotic - but if anyone deserves one, it's Messi.
The World Cup is special. You will forever be a legend in your country. Very few players get remembered forever for what they do with their clubs.
I'm fine with him getting it. Its a silly award that's given to whichever attacker had the most noteworthy year. Last year, it was Messi.
I assume they mean the standard of football, as in the quality of the teams playing in it. In that sense, the world cup isn't the gold standard because elite level club football is better than elite level international football. It is more emotionally important to a lot of people but that doesn't mean the actual matches are played at a higher level.
Yes, that's exactly what I said since the beginning, the WC is an important competition but it isn't the only one.
The WC has been losing the single gold standard it had before because since the 2000s clubs have been better in absolute terms than national teams.
In the "old times" you had national teams like the 70s and 80s Brazil with absurd talent and no club could match it.
By the late 2000s imho clubs have been better than national teams. Manchester City is much better than Argentina in absolute terms and most of the high end clubs are better than national teams.
Pick the best national teams in the world and you can find several clubs with a better 11, even ones that are supposedly stellar end up lacking in product or style (like France, where the whole team is lesser than the individual quality of the players).
That's why imho the CL has been getting more importance.
If you pick the WC winners in the past 20 years do you really say they are the best team in the world at that moment, including clubs?
In older times it almost always was true.
Iirc, one year Tuchel and Jorginho got the European coach and player of the year while the Barca women's coach and their top scorer got the same awards on the women's side. They basically just gave the awards based on the result of the two champions league finals.
Though I guess there's so much football, it's impossible to watch it all do the main competitions and games will dominate people's imaginations.
Thanks to Emiliano Martínez, not Messi.
/facepalm
Again, I didn't say it isn't A gold standard. What I said is that it isn't THE gold standard, there are others atm like the CL.
Interesting. Do explain how the goalkeeper made the 118 minutes before the save you're obviously referring to the most exciting final in memory?
Yes, but still in pure footballing terms, it's too much, in the case of the WC's excess of romanticism
In the case of CLs an extreme case of snobism and nowadays with the addition that you have to have lots of stats too.
This prize was always fickle, always had diff criterias, yet in the past the romanticism wasn't just put in results, stats, but had more to do with how a player played, in terms of plays during the season and even aesthetically, how they did it...I liked a lot more that aproach, flawed of course, yet I liked that idea more.
Even thought of course it wasn't just that, stats, titles, huge clubs always had a lot of weight.
You're describing the winner. Well done.
There can’t be the same level of cohesion among the teams because you don’t have billionaire owners who can stockpile talent in the best 3-4 teams, nor do the players/ managers have the comfort of training week in week out - all of which is what makes it all the more special and at times challenging.
Thats it’s comfortably the biggest stage in football is undeniable. And by its design, it’s teams and matches having that lower level of cohesion do both add and detract in different ways when it comes to standard.
Anything is deniable in the Caf @amolbhatia50k
He wasn't even the best player in Ligue 1 that year. Didn't win a single player of the month award either.